69 coupe build

[stangme428 33]

question.....for those that have rebuilt using a 69 351W block, have you noticed this "groove" towards the bottom of the deck? im looking into getting some gaskets from cometic to increase the head gasket thickness and reduce some compression.

i have found some pics on the net of 69 351W blocks that have this same "groove" so far the common denominator has been "original block" ready for rebuild. so was this a casting flaw causing eventual water leaks, or is it that it really doesn't make a difference in this area.... seems my block has not been decked due to deck height of the 69'. In my head this should be a perfect surface.. not as shown in the pics.

 

my bud Andy dropped of the motor at Horsepower by Hedrick in Jacksonville .. hence the pics of the "groove".

Mark is going to:

 

• install heads
  
• degree cam
  
• setup rockers
  

not enough hours in the day.... hope to meet with Mark on tuesday 4.6.10 of next week to review a few options on head gaskets and such.

Edited April 3, 2010 by stangme428

[RogerC 136]

stangme428,

Bearing conversion on my pedal bracket done see http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=7920

[stangme428 33]

wow.. that should last forever!!

 

stangme428,

Bearing conversion on my pedal bracket done see http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=7920

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i have the original 69 block in my car. i don't see anything like what you see on your block. i don't know if it has been decked before or not. is there an easy to way to tell? the internals looked to be all original and the last time the motor saw the street was 1983. it's never been bored. my car was built march of 69.

after the C90E-6015 there is a "B" and a "2". any idea what the B or 2 imply?

 

question.....for those that have rebuilt using a 69 351W block, have you noticed this "groove" towards the bottom of the deck? im looking into getting some gaskets from cometic to increase the head gasket thickness and reduce some compression.

i have found some pics on the net of 69 351W blocks that have this same "groove" so far the common denominator has been "original block" ready for rebuild. so was this a casting flaw causing eventual water leaks, or is it that it really doesn't make a difference in this area.... seems my block has not been decked due to deck height of the 69'. In my head this should be a perfect surface.. not as shown in the pics.

 

my bud Andy dropped of the motor at Horsepower by Hedrick in Jacksonville .. hence the pics of the "groove".

Mark is going to:

 

• install heads
  
• degree cam
  
• setup rockers
  

not enough hours in the day.... hope to meet with Mark on tuesday 4.6.10 of next week to review a few options on head gaskets and such.

[stangme428 33]

thanks buckeye... yeah i met with mr.hedrick and went over the block. only thing i can think of is it sat with a rusted gasket or head for years and when it was cleaned it had the groove. it has not been decked and i was not charged for it from the original builder. live and learn the build should have used 6.20 rods instead of 6.25 rods, then the block could have been decked and a .05 gasket used.

 

im going to order some .05 head gaskets to have more material to seal and to drop the compression down a hair.. but mainly to try and seal. after doing some math i cant believe the motor didn't have any signs of detonation. looks like the original compression ratio calculation is at 12.1 and ill be at 12.0 with the new .05 gaskets and the new head combustion chamber size. the original builder surfaced the heads after they had been welded and took .01 off so the chamber is now 62cc instead of 64cc.

 

so it looks like that snow performance methonal kit i have been eyeballin' is going to be needed after all... i guess i could always order the 76cc heads from AFD and sell these to a racer....:biggrin:

[Jayru 17]

thanks buckeye... yeah i met with mr.hedrick and went over the block. only thing i can think of is it sat with a rusted gasket or head for years and when it was cleaned it had the groove. it has not been decked and i was not charged for it from the original builder. live and learn the build should have used 6.20 rods instead of 6.25 rods, then the block could have been decked and a .05 gasket used.

 

im going to order some .05 head gaskets to have more material to seal and to drop the compression down a hair.. but mainly to try and seal. after doing some math i cant believe the motor didn't have any signs of detonation. looks like the original compression ratio calculation is at 12.1 and ill be at 12.0 with the new .05 gaskets and the new head combustion chamber size. the original builder surfaced the heads after they had been welded and took .01 off so the chamber is now 62cc instead of 64cc.

 

so it looks like that snow performance methonal kit i have been eyeballin' is going to be needed after all... i guess i could always order the 76cc heads from AFD and sell these to a racer....:biggrin:

 

That's definitely pitted from a rusty head gasket/sitting. I can't believe your builder said nothing about that and rebuilt it with that groove like that! He should have known that wasn't supposed to be there/wouldn't seal.

 

Sorry for your troubles.

[buening 63]

hey what length hydraulic hose did you end up using between the master cylinder and the hydro throwout bearing? Did it end up being too long or too short?

[stangme428 33]

wow - two week vacation with no internet access ... for a computer guy that rough...

 

ok - update - seems they had a variance with the AFD heads .. the geometry wasn't quite correct on the exhaust side, the roller tip on the rocker sat tooo far out on the valve stem. a good thing we didnt take the motor past 5400rpm on the dyno. mr.hedrick talked to AFD and ordered some 1.6 roller rockers to go on the exhaust side and depending on the geometry maybe some new push rods to go with them. so, 1.7's on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust... cam was within a 1/2 of degree so thats good!

 

so we shall see .... :tongue_smilie:

[buening 63]

Sounds to me like AFD should be sending you some new heads with them paying shipping both ways. Problems with the coolant plugs and now valvetrain geometry errors? yikes

[1952 10]

If that was my block I would deck the block and use a Thicker head gasket

that would allow your pistons to be OUT of the block but still have a proper Quench

 

That groove is a leak waiting to happen. Aluminum heads Expand and contract at a different rate that the Steel clock and it Will Leak

 

1952

 

question.....for those that have rebuilt using a 69 351W block, have you noticed this "groove" towards the bottom of the deck? im looking into getting some gaskets from cometic to increase the head gasket thickness and reduce some compression.

i have found some pics on the net of 69 351W blocks that have this same "groove" so far the common denominator has been "original block" ready for rebuild. so was this a casting flaw causing eventual water leaks, or is it that it really doesn't make a difference in this area.... seems my block has not been decked due to deck height of the 69'. In my head this should be a perfect surface.. not as shown in the pics.

 

my bud Andy dropped of the motor at Horsepower by Hedrick in Jacksonville .. hence the pics of the "groove".

Mark is going to:

 

• install heads
  
• degree cam
  
• setup rockers
  

not enough hours in the day.... hope to meet with Mark on tuesday 4.6.10 of next week to review a few options on head gaskets and such.

[stangme428 33]

sorry for the long delay.... yep - needs to be decked .... for sure... im trying to decide on what to do at the moment.

 

• put the project on indefinite hold
  
• bring project back home
  
• sell Scat 6.25 H beam rods
  
• purchase Scat 6.20 H or I beam rods
  
• re-balance everything
  
• deck block
  
• re assemble
  

awaiting the 1.6 rockers to test the geometry, if the geometry doesn't work - I'll be on the phone with AFD in AUS to return the heads etc. also, due to other items - kids graduation, twins head to college - i know time for the project is going to be at a minimum the next few months - as it is now. plus with work schedules - its hard to schedule.. good problems to have:biggrin:

Edited May 19, 2010 by stangme428

[stangme428 33]

OK - man - you always hear about money pits... lol but she better run like crazy when its done...

 

ended up installing:

8 new 1.6 rocker arms modified a bit (exhaust) 1.7 on intake

8 new pushrods to go with the new rockers

1 new guide plate (defective)

mill down B&A intake to align correctly on heads

 

2+ days of labor to figure it out and make it work.....

 

so, pick up the motor in a couple of days...hope to get her in the car soon and bolt up the T56 etc etc etc... im ready for some progress!!!!:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:

 

decided to go with this motor until/if problems arise and money allows new rods, balancing and rebuild, then move to another block that hopefully the internals will fit etc.... i can run 1/2 race gas/93 octane for some fun on weekends for a while.

Edited May 19, 2010 by stangme428

[buening 63]

Glad to see you got it all worked out. It's too bad that AFD's heads have cause that much of a headache when they should have been spot on to begin with. You have more patience with them that I would!

[buening 63]

One more thing, ModernDriveline has changed their arm design on the hydraulic master cylinder that the clutch pedal attaches to. It's more of a 90 than a slight bend as shown in your picture. You may wanna contact them to see if what you have will still work. It seems they've been gradually working out the kinks and you have one of the early setups. I just got mine in the mail a few days ago.

[stangme428 33]

wow.... did you inquire and they sent you a new arm or was it needed etc?

ill give the a email - just curious.

thx:biggrin:

 

One more thing, ModernDriveline has changed their arm design on the hydraulic master cylinder that the clutch pedal attaches to. It's more of a 90 than a slight bend as shown in your picture. You may wanna contact them to see if what you have will still work. It seems they've been gradually working out the kinks and you have one of the early setups. I just got mine in the mail a few days ago.

[buening 63]

No I just bought the assembly and noticed the arm was different than in your picture, thought I'd give you a heads up.

[stangme428 33]

No I just bought the assembly and noticed the arm was different than in your picture, thought I'd give you a heads up.

 

thanks man ... i knew i was early ... lol... its all good.

 

thx again..:tongue_smilie:

[stangme428 33]

motor is ready for pickup from horsepower by hedrick.... should be able to go by thursday 5/27/2010 and drop it off at Andy's to get back on track....:tongue_smilie:

[buening 63]

About time!! :p

[stangme428 33]

woo hooo! yeah that was a woo hooo!!

 

hopefully the project can get on some kind of schedule in the near future.... the motor is back from Mr.Hedrick's shop in jax.

 

mods needed to get the rocker geometry correct:

ARP 334-7203 Rocker studs (SBC) (8)

CC 1632-1 Rocker Arm Ultra Pro-Mag (8) machined to seat pushrod and prevent bind at max

 

MAN 25870-8 Pushrods - needed due to new rocker install

 

FEL 1046 Head Gasket - trying to get the heads to seal and increase gasket thickness to 50k - still high comp ration 12:1 - hello snowperformance

 

MAN 42156-8 Manley Guide Plates - 1 was defective from factory may try to send back to summit the bend distance to mounting hole was off by 20k+ this pushed the pushrod out away from guide when inserted... who would have thunk' it.... lol

 

weld all remaining head plugs for NO LEAKS

Machine Track Boss intake 85k per side to seat properly into heads and valley....

 

what was that game as a kid-- go fish or old maid... which one of these are not alike....:biggrin:

 

and a sneak peak pic at my buddy Andy's Fox460 project while i have been away... gonna be a fun ride!!

[stangme428 33]

getting ready for a sanding party...... slow progress as we have time...:tongue_smilie: gonna scuff up and degrease the engine compartment and paint it eastwood underhood satin black...

also gonna sand the roof down a bit and look at applying the por products....

[stangme428 33]

getting ready for a sanding party...... slow progress as we have time...:tongue_smilie: gonna scuff up and degrease the engine compartment and paint it eastwood underhood satin black...

also gonna sand the roof down a bit and look at applying the por products....

[flight96 14]

Ahhh...It brings a tear to my eyes !!!! That motor looks great !!!

[flight96 14]

Ahhh...It brings a tear to my eyes !!!! That motor looks great !!!

[Big Secz 26]

getting ready for a sanding party...... slow progress as we have time...:tongue_smilie: gonna scuff up and degrease the engine compartment and paint it eastwood underhood satin black...

also gonna sand the roof down a bit and look at applying the por products....

 

 

I'm not sure where you live, but be careful with that style of garage structure. I had my car in the exact same kind of structure this past winter and we ended up getting a ton of snow this year. The first snowfall in December caused the sturcture to collapse on my car. The damage could have been a lot worse. I ended up having to have a new top installed and had two dents on the right side of the car and ended up having to have the entire right side repainted. Total cost of repairs was $2200.