Tuning question

[barnett468 418]

Yes! The mechanic took out the old one and said it wasn't necessary anymore.

 

What exactly did the mechanic take out?

[RPM 1,190]

nickjames, if you do remove the power booster, make sure you replace the brake pedal as the power and manual pedals differ. The pivot points mount at different locations to allow for more leverage for the manual pedal.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Yes! The mechanic took out the old one and said it wasn't necessary anymore.

I think you are saying that the mechanic took out the old ignition/box and put in a MSD box?

Ok here's how it works- in a stock system a wire is run from the ignition switch to the coil positive terminal and the other side of the coil goes to the distributor which has points that open and close. The opening and closing of the points makes a magnetic field buildup and collapse in the coil and this is what makes a coil operate. Normally coils work on AC power but this a way to make it work in a DC (battery) system. The higher voltage from the coil's secondary is discharged to the plugs via the rotor. If you didn't have the points it would only generate a field when you turned the key on and off- with nothing in between. The tach was connected to the side of the coil that the points were connected to. It would count when the points opened and closed and figure out the RPM from that. There are 8 lobes on the cam inside the distributor to open the points once for each cylinder. The MSD ignition is a "multiple spark discharge" system. It produces multiple sparks for each power stroke. It still uses a coil but now on each power stroke the coil is fired multiple times. This screws-up the tach because it can't count anymore- it doesn't have a clean tach signal. Often the MSD box will have a tach output that you can connect your tachometer to in order to get a clean signal. I hope all of that is understandable.

 

not my thumbnails

[RPM 1,190]

Let's stay on topic folks and keep it civilized.

[SA69mach 39]

nickjames, I apologize for this meaningless distraction. Pointless drivel form both sides.

 

Your dieseling and  poor idle is the result of very low initial timing.  Easily rectified by  adjustment of the distributor to gain some advance. That is your main issue.  All the rest is just fine tuning. Start with 12 degrees BTDC and work up from there.  A big cam needs careful adjustment in increments of 2 degrees at a time.  Plug your vacuum feed to the distributor into ported outlet on your carb after you have set your initial timing and check the idle, the starting, and running on the road.

Too much advance will cause hard stating, laboring of the starter to turn the engine over - a sign of too much advance.  Back it off 2 degrees if you experience that.  In general, you are seeking the highest advance setting you can get without causing a 'hard start'

 

After getting an acceptable idle and running car, you can pursue the  optimal timing curve via vacuum and mechanical advance, inside the distributor.

 

I will stay off this thread since it is just a distraction now  Best of luck.

[barnett468 418]

nickjames, if you do remove the power booster, make sure you replace the brake pedal as the power and manual pedals differ. The pivot points mount at different locations to allow for more leverage for the manual pedal.

 

xlnt point and good catch.

 

nickjames, a 1969 power brake pedal will be 5" from the center of the pivot pin boss to the center of the pin . . A 1970 brake pedal will be 4 1/2" and a manual brake pedal will be much less at around 3" . . Over the years it's quite possible for parts to get changed around and mismatched, so you can check to see what pedal you might have by using these measurements.

 

The pedal pivot pin boss you see on the pedal below is just over 1" in diameter, so an easy way to determine the distance from center to center without removing the pedal is to simply put the end of the tape against the bottom of the pivot boss then measure to the center of the pin then add 1/2" to that measurement to get the true measurement.

 

For example, if the distance from the bottom of the pivot pin boss to the center of the brake rod pin is 4 1/2", simply add 1/2" to 4 1/2" to get the true distance which in this case would be 5".

 

Hopefully this info will be useful to you.

 

 

[barnett468 418]

 

 

And Barnett - please, stop with the cryptic stuff  "What canister do you want?"  You know he wants the right canister for his car and distributor.  I think you are teasing this guy or making him look foolish.  If you can help him, please get on with it.  I have faith you can.

 

 

rickjames just to clarify my question to you regarding the vacuum canister so you aren't led to misunderstand its intention, there is nothing "cryptic' about it whatsoever and it was not intended to be "cryptic" . . It is a simple, straight forward, direct question intended to do nothing more than find out what canister you want so I or someone else can try and help you . . Since you already posted on the previous page that your distributor does have a vacuum can AND that it works, I simply wasn't sure what other vacuum can you could want, and not being one to assume, it seemed logical to simply ask you . . Sometimes things are just what they seem to be and nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

sa69mach, please accept my apologies if you think that the length of time I have already spent trying to help rickjames was NOT "Getting on with it" to your satisfaction . . I am merely tying to do the best I can with what I have.

.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I see some discussion on what type of ignition system is being used.  In his pictures I see an MSD Ready To Run distributor.  Which is an "inductive" and not "CD" type of ignition system.  Those are usually selected when somebody doesn't want to install any type of external CD ignition box.  If the inop tach being referred to is the factory tach, I am almost certain it will not work with that ignition system.

[nickjames138 15]

Barnett, just an update...the timing pointer is on back order from cjponyparts. The dynamat and power windows came, but no pointer. I'll let you know as soon as I get it!

[RPM 1,190]

Hey Nickjames, send me your address and I'll send a timing pointer.

[Vicfreg 773]

Wow lots of good advice here.   My 2 cents worth:

 

The last generation carbureted cars had these problems, and some manufacturers added idle stop solenoids (like on late model Quadrajets) to make sure the idle circuit was closed when you shut the engine off.   I am not suggesting adding one, but the root cause could be the same.   Your idle should not be so high that your are not using the "idle circuit" in the carb when idling   When you shut the car off, it could then diesel. As pointed out by others, this is an interactive problem with your timing advance, and even where you hook up your vacuum advance line.

 

Anyway, I had a similar problem when installed a 5.0 in my 1968, and used new alternator, coil, and distributor.  Somehow I got it wired wrong and the alternator field was back feeding power to my coil even when the ignition was shut off.  I think I installed a diode somewhere, and then used a ballast resistor in place of the infamous Ford "pink wire".  

 

Epilogue - Eventually I did the DuraSpark conversion, using the "blue connector " Duraspark Box, MSD blaster coil, and painless wiring harness with the horseshoe connector,, and a stock distributor from a 1985-1/2 Mustang GT, and it works great now

 

302 head comment - Interesting as the head bolt size is different (1/2 inch on the 351 versus 7/16 inch on the 302) .  5/8 socket fits the 7/16 bolt, 3/4 socket fits the 1/2 inch bolt for standard hex bolts.  Guess someone drilled your heads out to fit the 1/2 bolt.   (I have Ford Lightning GT-40 heads on my 5.0, and they came this way)

[nickjames138 15]

Wow lots of good advice here.   My 2 cents worth:

 

The last generation carbureted cars had these problems, and some manufacturers added idle stop solenoids (like on late model Quadrajets) to make sure the idle circuit was closed when you shut the engine off.   I am not suggesting adding one, but the root cause could be the same.   Your idle should not be so high that your are not using the "idle circuit" in the carb when idling   When you shut the car off, it could then diesel. As pointed out by others, this is an interactive problem with your timing advance, and even where you hook up your vacuum advance line.

 

Anyway, I had a similar problem when installed a 5.0 in my 1968, and used new alternator, coil, and distributor.  Somehow I got it wired wrong and the alternator field was back feeding power to my coil even when the ignition was shut off.  I think I installed a diode somewhere, and then used a ballast resistor in place of the infamous Ford "pink wire".  

 

Epilogue - Eventually I did the DuraSpark conversion, using the "blue connector " Duraspark Box, MSD blaster coil, and painless wiring harness with the horseshoe connector,, and a stock distributor from a 1985-1/2 Mustang GT, and it works great now

 

302 head comment - Interesting as the head bolt size is different (1/2 inch on the 351 versus 7/16 inch on the 302) .  5/8 socket fits the 7/16 bolt, 3/4 socket fits the 1/2 inch bolt for standard hex bolts.  Guess someone drilled your heads out to fit the 1/2 bolt.   (I have Ford Lightning GT-40 heads on my 5.0, and they came this way)

When I went to change the spark plugs the 351 spark plugs did not fit and the 302 spark plugs did. So, that means it has 302 heads right? 

[barnett468 418]

When I went to change the spark plugs the 351 spark plugs did not fit and the 302 spark plugs did. So, that means it has 302 heads right? 

 

Not necessarily, look EVERYWHERE on the outside of the head including where the lower head bolts are and post any numbers you find.

 

Your heads have an odd casting design that I don't remember seeing before and they could be aftermarket ones.

[barnett468 418]

Barnett, just an update...the timing pointer is on back order from cjponyparts. The dynamat and power windows came, but no pointer. I'll let you know as soon as I get it!

 

I would just buy it from another supplier as it could take a long time before they get it.

[Vicfreg 773]

For the same model year, if original, they both should use the same plugs.  Prior to 1975 the 302 and 351 W used 18mm plugs.  From 1975 and up, they both use 14mm plugs.  So, you may have tried an early vintage spark plug in your later vintage head, which would explain why it did not fit.  For aftermarket heads, you need to check, most modern 5.0 heads also use 14mm plugs.  

[purple69 10]

What octane fuel are you using? If your compression ratio is 9.5 or higher you my need to use a higher octane fuel.

[nickjames138 15]

Tried a few other companies...all on back order. May have to go with a different brand. Cj said they will have it to me by the end of the month. In the meantime my car is in the shop getting a tiny rust spot in the floorboard patched and dynamatted!!! Excited for that!

 

I use premium gas.

[RobotMan 264]

Deleted and started new thread. Did not want to think I was hijacking this thread.

[nickjames138 15]

I would just buy it from another supplier as it could take a long time before they get it.

I tried a few different sites and they were all on backorder. I should have the pointer by the end of the month. FYI

[nickjames138 15]

I see some discussion on what type of ignition system is being used.  In his pictures I see an MSD Ready To Run distributor.  Which is an "inductive" and not "CD" type of ignition system.  Those are usually selected when somebody doesn't want to install any type of external CD ignition box.  If the inop tach being referred to is the factory tach, I am almost certain it will not work with that ignition system.

 

So, would I have to get an MSD Ignition box to make the tach work or is that a waste of money. Also, would a tach adapter from MSD work. btw you are correct with the Ready To Run Dist. 

 

Also, I finally got my timing pointer in the mail today!!. So, we can get back to tuning!  

[barnett468 418]

timing pointer, most xlnt! . i haven't followed the tach thing much so i can't help you there but others here definitely can.

[nickjames138 15]

Okay, so once I get this damn pointer on what is my first step.

 

I found another issue which I'm not sure if it's just the fuel line, but I'm leaking gas right before the fuel pump. The line is constantly leaking and the fuel filter is always full even if I haven't ran the car in a few days. What's that all about?

[barnett468 418]

ok, the first step would be to determine where the gas leak is coming from . if the hoses feel hard, the are old and i would replace them . your filter screws together so it may be leaking at one of the ends then running down the hose to the clamp on the pump then dripping off there . you can sometimes locate a gas leak by using a kleenex on your finger then touching all around and when it gets wet, you have a leak there or uphill of there.

 

the next step would be to simply go back thru the posts and do what is suggested.

[nickjames138 15]

I know the leak is coming from the hose at the clamp, so I tightened the repositioned the clamp and that still didn't work.its a new hose, but it may have a slit in it, so I will replace it. But, would that cause the fuel filter to constantly be filled up with gas? Before it was always semi full.

[ray1970 88]

My not be your leak but the glass screw together filters are a do NOT do.

Look great...Nothing but problems