Tuning question

[1969_Mach1 333]

Stop driving the car and look for the fuel leak and fix it before a fire starts!

I apologize if my previous post sounded harsh.  I simply din't want nickjames138 to keep driving the car not knowing if it serious or not.

 

I've only seen a few engine fires.  One was from a fuel leak, one from an oil leak, and one was simple from carb cleaner vapors being ignited by sparks inside the distributor cap.  They were all not easy to extinguish and can get out of hand quickly.

 

I agree, members here offer help because we enjoy helping out, and passing along some knowledge to others trying to sort out issues they're unfamiliar with.  We've all been there.  I still learn reading through threads.

 

I'm certain nickjames138 can tune his motor with some basic tools and following instructions from barnett468 and other members here.

 

Mike

[barnett468 418]

I apologize if my previous post sounded harsh.  I simply din't want nickjames138 to keep driving the car not knowing if it serious or not.

 

not to worry . . it was not harsh at all . . it was direct and accurate and i often make comments like that  . it dries me nuts when some people [not you] think that direct, matter of fact comments like yours are rude or abrasive etc, and imo, if someone thinks they are, they are way too sensitive and defensive.

 

imo, if someone wants or needs a ton of sugar along with peoples replies, they need help.

[nickjames138 15]

not to worry . . it was not harsh at all . . it was direct and accurate and i often make comments like that  . it dries me nuts when some people [not you] think that direct, matter of fact comments like yours are rude or abrasive etc, and imo, if someone thinks they are, they are way too sensitive and defensive.

 

imo, if someone wants or needs a ton of sugar along with peoples replies, they need help.

I took it as you love this year car and you're concerned! But thanks for checking. 

 

So, after driving for a 5 mile or more drive when i go to turn it off it Diesels as I said. The last mechanic told me to put it in drive and shut it off and it won't diesel, so I did that today which resulted in the gas leak. It does not leak any other time. So, when I stop and put it in park and turn it off it will diesel and then not leak gas. In there lies my problem I'm guessing. 

 

I'm going to head to pep boys and buys a timing light tomorrow and a vacuum gauge. So, I'll start with the compression test. I only need to do those two plugs you mentioned, Barnett? should I do a dry and wet test? or just a dry test?

[1969_Mach1 333]

I'm sure Barnett will chime in to answer your questions.  Don't forget a compression tester if you don't already have one.

 

Yeah, regarding Mustangs, I have a narrow list of models I like.  Basically, 1969 and 1970 Boss Mustangs, then 1969 and 1970 Mach 1's, then the base 1969 and 1970 Sportsroof Mustangs.  By now you probably know there are not a lot of 1969 and 1970 Mach 1's around anymore, especially on the West Coast of United States.

 

NIOT MY THUMBNAIL

[barnett468 418]

your gas level must be below the hole in the float bowl so we need to start there.

 

i would not do a wet test.

 

the front hole on each side is fine but if you have to buy a gauge, dont worry about it.

[nickjames138 15]

IGNITION TIMING

 

 

 

Connect timing lite to number 1 cylinder

 

you need some liquid white out or white liquid shoe polish and a tape measure if you use a timing lite which will make this a zillion times easier . . they are $20.00 from some shops and autozone or a similar shop may rent them or loan them.

 

 

VACUUM ADVANCE AND FRONT THROTTLE BLADE POSITION AND IDLE SPEED

 

As someone mentioned, if your idle is too high or your throttle is too far open, it can diesel when you turn it off.

 

we need to know where your distributor vacuum is connected.

 

until you get a timing lite, you can let your engine warm up then remove the hose or plug from the vacuum port from on the right side of the carb located near the top then put your finger over the fitting feel if it has a light amount of vacuum feel . . if the distributor is connected to it listen for a drop in engine rpm. when you remove it.

 

next suck on the hose going to the distributor . . if you can suck a little air the vacuum can is bad . .. if there is no vacuum at this port at idle your idle setting is probably not the cause but we will still check that.

 

if the distributor hose is connected to this port and the rpm drops when you remove the hose, your throttle is open too far . . do not touch the idle screw yet, but turn the car off and see if it still diesels.

.

I don't have a compression gauge, so I'm guessing this is the next step to move to. When I installed my new distributor and coil my RPM gauge on my cluster stopped working. Google says that Ford RPM gauges are not compatible to new distributors or something (from what the mechanic told me) and there is a conversion kit. Anyways, I don't have a gauge for RPM. However, I know from previous I'm idling at around 900 and when I put it into drive it drops to 650-700. From what I understand that is the cam (previous owner installed) that's not producing a lot of vacuum. Also, when we installed the distributor (I don't have a window. I just have the screw hole) the gas was below the hole right after shut off. He pushed the car a gas poured out and he said the gas level was fine in the bowl......if that's a good enough test....

 

So, where do I go from here? You motivated me to get this fixed!

[barnett468 418]

xlnt

 

try to find where it is leaking from by closely looking at all the fittings . . it might need to be running when you do this so the system is pressurized.

 

we need to know what the gas level in the carb is and set it if necessary . . if you need instructions on how to set it, i or another will tell you.

 

i would get a timing lite

[nickjames138 15]

xlnt

 

we need to know what the gas level in the carb is and set it if necessary . . if you need instructions on how to set it, i or another will tell you.

 

i would get a timing lite

Great. How do I check the gas level in the carb? 

 

I'll go get a timing light tomorrow. 

[barnett468 418]

Great. How do I check the gas level in the carb? 

 

I'll go get a timing light tomorrow. 

 

ok, below is just one method.

 

put several paper towels on the left side of the carb below the inspection screws

 

put a felt pen mark on one side of the nut on top of the screw

 

start engine and let run for 30 seconds then turn it off.

 

remove the gas level inspection screw in the side of the carb . . if gas pours out, reinstall the screw.

 

cover the screw on the top of the carb and loosen it 1 full turn.

 

pry up on the nut to make sure the gasket isn't stuck to it and the carb.

 

release the nut and turn it clockwise 1/2 turn.

 

tighten the screw with moderate force.

 

start the engine then look at the screw to insure it is not leaking gas . . if it is, turn the engine off and tighten it more then start engine and check again . . if it is still leaking, one or both of the gaskets are damaged so remove them and do to a hardware store and see if you can get some that will work . . if there is no leak, go to the next step.

 

remove the inspection screw . . if gas comes out, reinstall the screw.

 

loosen screw on top of carb and turn the nut clockwise 1/2 turn and retighten screw.

 

start the car and let it idle for 30 seconds then turn it off.

 

remove inspection screw.

 

if no gas comes out, push on the side of the car a couple times with lite force . . if any gas sloshes out, the gas level is correct.

 

if no gas sloshes out, reinstall the screw.

 

loosen screw on top of carb and turn the nut counter clockwise 1/2 turn and retighten screw.

 

start car for 30 seconds then turn off and check gas level.

 

repeat steps as necessary until a little gas sloshes out when you push on the carb.

 

 

TYPE TWO INSPECTION SCREW

 

If you have a clear sight window, set gas level until it is near the bottom of the window

 

start car for 30 seconds then turn off.

 

if the gas level is too high, turn nut in 1/2 turn per instructions above.

 

start car

 

rev the engine a little few times then turn it off and check the gas level.

 

if it is still high, turn nut in 1/2 turn then start car and rev a few times r

 

 

..

 

.

[nickjames138 15]

Ok, So I checked the inspection screw after running and it's definitely leaking gas. So, I loosened the screw on top and turned the nut counterclockwise 1/2 turn. I repeated this step 4-5 times and there's still gas leaking out of the inspection screw when I loosen it. There's no gas leaking from either screw when they're tightened, but there's definitely a lot of gas leaking from both screws when I loosen them. It's a brand new Holley that I bought from Summit, so I can't see it having a bad gasket out of the box. However, I'm sure it could happen. 

 

Also, I have a fuel pump in the rear that was seizing up when the engine got hot. So, the mechanic left that pump on and screwed a better pump directly into the engine. I'll send some pictures from my phone.  

[nickjames138 15]

Should I keep turning that nut counterclockwise until The inspection screw is not leaking? because everything is sealed tight after I tighten all the screws and turn the engine back on. But there is a considerable amount of gas that leaks out from the top screw when I unscrew it to turn that nut counterclockwise. 

 

ps. I bought a timing light. 

 

I'm So determined to get this fixed and really excited to have someone help! I really appreciate it! 

[nickjames138 15]

Here

[1969_Mach1 333]

You're close.  Just have the turning direction on the nut backwards.

 

To set the float adjustment.

 

1)  On top of the float bowl, while holding the nut, loosen the screw slightly, just enough so the nut can be turned.  Keep a rag handy, often fuel leaks out while that is loose and you are making adjustments.  That's why I only loosen the screw enough so the nut will turn.

 

2)  With the screw loose turn the clockwise to lower the float level.  Or, turn the nut counter clockwise to raise the float level.

 

3)  After adjustment, while holding the nut tighten the screw.

 

Barnett should chime in but for now I set my float level so the fuel is at the bottom of the inspection screw hole on the side of the float bowl with the engine idling.  Make sure the car is on fairly level ground.  If you shake the car a little fuel should trickle out of the inspection hole.  

 

When you make changes, especially clockwise to lower the float it sometimes takes a few minutes to notice it.  This is because it takes time for the engine to use up some fuel in the float bowl.  Sometimes after a clockwise adjustment I will reinstall the inspection screw on the side of the float bowl so fuel doesn't keep leaking out and let the engine run for a few minutes.  Then remove the inspection screw, check and readjust again as needed.

[barnett468 418]

my instructions are highly detailed and very specific . . they say to turn the screw clockwise if gas leaks out when you remove the screw . . you did just the opposite of what i posted.

 

at least you see how to adjust them now so the correct adjustment should go quickly.

 

you can remove the gas from the intake with paint thinner or lacquer thinner and some paper towels.

[nickjames138 15]

my instructions are highly detailed and very specific . . they say to turn the screw clockwise if gas leaks out when you remove the screw . . you did just the opposite of what i posted.

 

at least you see how to adjust them now so the correct adjustment should go quickly.

 

you can remove the gas from the intake with paint thinner or lacquer thinner and some paper towels.

Wow I said counterclockwise. I completely meant clockwise. Sorry. I 100% turned the nut clockwise a few full turns and there is still gas leaking from the inspection screw. I followed your instructions. They were very specific.

[barnett468 418]

Wow I said counterclockwise. I completely meant clockwise. Sorry. I 100% turned the nut clockwise a few full turns and there is still gas leaking from the inspection screw. I followed your instructions. They were very specific.

 

 

lol, thats ok.

 

you must adjust both floats

 

keep turning until the gas quits coming out, HOWEVER, since you had gas on the grund and there is old gas all over your intake, it is possible that your needles are are old or have debris in them causing the gas to come out the vents onto your engine.

 

if you needles are leaking gas, it can make it hard to start etc.

 

the needle is the part in the center of the nut . . you can turn the nut clockwise until it is just barely protruding into the nut . . if gas still comes out, you have a needle problem or a leaking float.

 

Do both float bowls leak out the screw hole?

[1969_Mach1 333]

I was beginning to wonder if there was something stuck in the needle and seat. Thus, adjusting wasn't having any affect.

[nickjames138 15]

ill get back at it first thing in the morning. I didn't let it run more than a minute after readjusting the nut. So, I'll keep working at it and keep you posted first thing in the morning.

 

How do I check the needles? Like I said the Holley is brand new. I just bought it a month ago. I'll check the other float as well.

[barnett468 418]

ill get back at it first thing in the morning. I didn't let it run more than a minute after readjusting the nut. So, I'll keep working at it and keep you posted first thing in the morning.

 

How do I check the needles? Like I said the Holley is brand new. I just bought it a month ago. I'll check the other float as well.

 

 

xlnt.

 

even though the carb is new, it could have debris stuck in the needles . . i put a small clear plastic filter just before the fuel pump to keep junk out.

 

if there is debris in the needles you can remove them then spray them with brake cleaner but we will hope this isn't the case.

[nickjames138 15]

xlnt.

 

even though the carb is new, it could have debris stuck in the needles . . i put a small clear plastic filter just before the fuel pump to keep junk out.

 

if there is debris in the needles you can remove them then spray them with brake cleaner but we will hope this isn't the case.

HEYOOO I got it! Stupid me wasn't turning the nut that's closest to the fuel line! So, I got both needles set. There's just enough gas in the inspection hole that it sloshes out when I rock the car! Pretty excited that I just conquered my first task on the Holley...My buddy said Holleys are really intricate to tune on. 

 

So, what's next!? I got a timing light. 

[rwcstang 201]

http://www.vintagemusclecarparts.com/pages/needleandseat1.html I used this link to adjust my floats and clean needles. This is if you want to take your carb apart. of course, differen't model will vary but my carb was basically the same minus a few things that were different.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I can tell you where I set the base timing on my 351W.  At idle, with engine warm, my timing is set 10 degree's before top dead center.  On 351W's 10 to 12 degrees before top dead center base timing is a good starting point.  Sometimes at 12 degrees before top dead center the starter cannot crank over the engine very well to start it.  In that case turning the timing down a little to 10 degrees before top dead center is needed.  I see from your pictures your vacuum advance on the distributed is disconnected.  That is fine and how it should be when setting the base timing.

 

When setting the base timing there is usually some back and forth between adjusting the timing then readjusting the idle speed on the carb.  There is also some other trial and error involved.  I would wait for Barnett.  I'm sure he'll have detailed instructions to make sure more than the base timing is correct.

 

I think after you get the timing then idle adjustments ironed out all your problems will be solved.

[nickjames138 15]

I can tell you where I set the base timing on my 351W.  At idle, with engine warm, my timing is set 10 degree's before top dead center.  On 351W's 10 to 12 degrees before top dead center base timing is a good starting point.  Sometimes at 12 degrees before top dead center the starter cannot crank over the engine very well to start it.  In that case turning the timing down a little to 10 degrees before top dead center is needed.  I see from your pictures your vacuum advance on the distributed is disconnected.  That is fine and how it should be when setting the base timing.

 

When setting the base timing there is usually some back and forth between adjusting the timing then readjusting the idle speed on the carb.  There is also some other trial and error involved.  I would wait for Barnett.  I'm sure he'll have detailed instructions to make sure more than the base timing is correct.

 

I think after you get the timing then idle adjustments ironed out all your problems will be solved.

I think so too! Thanks for the help! This is going to be even more tricky for me doing this for the first time without a timing marker. My buddy who set the timing did it by ear and it was great, but then the mechanic who put the A/C in changed the timing for some reason. 

[1969_Mach1 333]

Did the A/C guy at least give you the pointer?  I know there are some reproduction pointers.  In National Parts Depot's catalog I've seen one for the 69 351W.  It looks like your motor has the lower radiator on the passenger side of the engine, which is correct for a 1969 351W.

[nickjames138 15]

Did the A/C guy at least give you the pointer?  I know there are some reproduction pointers.  In National Parts Depot's catalog I've seen one for the 69 351W.  It looks like your motor has the lower radiator on the passenger side of the engine, which is correct for a 1969 351W.

 

I don't think i have the pointer. You're talking about the pointer that shows you where to set your timing right? I haven't seen any number marker or pointer unfortunately. I'll check again though.