EFI install options

[det0326 179]

the line from anfittingsdirect.com is graphite impregnated and therefore non conductive.

All due respect but I always thought graphite was conductive, isn't that whats used in spark plug wires.  But I could be wrong

 

Dave

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

what's the deal with the non-conductive talk? seems opposite.

 

also why the need to do compression fittings anyways?

 

this is the hose and fittings i used.

 

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3490

[Mach1 Driver 560]

All due respect but I always thought graphite was conductive, isn't that whats used in spark plug wires.  But I could be wrong

 

Dave

 

what's the deal with the non-conductive talk? seems opposite.

 

 

 

I also thought it should be conductive, and yes graphite is conductive- put an ohmmeter on a pencil lead and see!

[fordguy69 24]

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1101-performance-fuel-hoses/

 

 

"Whether smooth or convoluted, PTFE hose intended for use in fuel or oil system applications should have a small amount of carbon impregnated into the tube bore. Low-conductivity liquid fuels such as oil, gasoline, and diesel have the potential to create an electrostatic discharge due to external environmental factors like high temperatures and humidity. Without the carbon to act as a grounding agent, there is the chance of a spark-inducing electrostatic discharge. Carbon-impregnated PTFE hose can be identified by its gray-black internal core instead of the usual pure white found in industrial-grade PTFE hose."

[prayers1 153]

I never know about this until it was mentioned a few posts above, needing to check if the line was anti-static.

IMO, fuel passing through the line is causing friction and in turn causing a static charge within the braided hose lines and to me that makes sense since I see that the hoses are made conductive or non-conductive.

 

Wouldn't you want a non-conductive material to prevent a static charge or vice-versa?

 

Enlighten me if I'm off base so that anyone not knowing can learn the do's and don't s.

 

Buckeye, thanks for posting the above info. IIRC, you said that you used an aluminum sleeve instead of the brass olive compression type. Which mfg did you use? Thanks!

[det0326 179]

John

 

then your problem is you can't find AN fittings in steel that is black.  As buckeye said you can use aluminum AN fittings with the 1/2" Cunifer tubing. Also I have never tried it but the 1/2" Cunifer tubing is soft and playable enough to flare if you have a tool that goes up to 1/2".  The only olives that I used were on the ptfe hoses that were recommended by aeroquip and yes they say it should be conductive. 

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I never know about this until it was mentioned a few posts above, needing to check if the line was anti-static.

IMO, fuel passing through the line is causing friction and in turn causing a static charge within the braided hose lines and to me that makes sense since I see that the hoses are made conductive or non-conductive.

 

Wouldn't you want a non-conductive material to prevent a static charge or vice-versa?

 

Enlighten me if I'm off base so that anyone not knowing can learn the do's and don't s.

 

Buckeye, thanks for posting the above info. IIRC, you said that you used an aluminum sleeve instead of the brass olive compression type. Which mfg did you use? Thanks!

 

ptfe/teflon is an excellent insulator (unless impregnated with something else).  it's very non-conductive.  because it's such a great insulator, it has a great ability to build up a charge and not easily bleed it off.  thus the potential for static discharge when the potential gets high enough to break down. 

 

where did i say i used an aluminum sleeve?  refresh my memory, because i don't recall saying that, but maybe i did.

 

why are you against flaring?

 

thanks.

[prayers1 153]

Buckeye, I apologize for the misunderstanding, this type of plumbing is new to me I may be getting confusing on the terminology of the parts.

In my mind I'm thinking this, the socket goes on the line first, then the compression sleeve either aluminum or the brass type, then flare the line and attach the fitting.

 

I've ran across 3 different types of sleeves, aluminum or brass teflon line olive insert (looks like a cone), a brass round one and the aluminum tube sleeve.

 

On your build thread I asked:
"When converting hard line to AN fitting did you use a brass or aluminum compression sleeve?
 What hardline/AN fitting did you use? Thank you!"

You replied:
"When converting hard line to AN fitting, I use a Rigid brand 37 degree flaring tool and an aluminum AN tube nut and sleeve.
There was an isolated case where i did use an aluminum compression due to space, but that wasn't desired."

 

I was thinking "an aluminum AN tube and sleeve" means also an aluminum ferrel or compression sleeve.

 

So, what actually is the sleeve material to use on this Cunifer line (brass or aluminum). What shape (round, cone or tube).

 

It will help better to understand, If you can share the part number.

Thank you for your patience & help!

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Buckeye, I apologize for the misunderstanding, this type of plumbing is new to me I may be getting confusing on the terminology of the parts.

In my mind I'm thinking this, the socket goes on the line first, then the compression sleeve either aluminum or the brass type, then flare the line and attach the fitting.

 

I've ran across 3 different types of sleeves, aluminum or brass teflon line olive insert (looks like a cone), a brass round one and the aluminum tube sleeve.

 

On your build thread I asked:

"When converting hard line to AN fitting did you use a brass or aluminum compression sleeve?

 What hardline/AN fitting did you use? Thank you!"

You replied:

"When converting hard line to AN fitting, I use a Rigid brand 37 degree flaring tool and an aluminum AN tube nut and sleeve.

There was an isolated case where i did use an aluminum compression due to space, but that wasn't desired."

 

I was thinking "an aluminum AN tube and sleeve" means also an aluminum ferrel or compression sleeve.

 

So, what actually is the sleeve material to use on this Cunifer line (brass or aluminum). What shape (round, cone or tube).

 

It will help better to understand, If you can share the part number.

Thank you for your patience & help!

 

the terminology in this thread is completely throwing me off (and you aren't even quoting me correctly).

 

so, when I said "Aluminum AN tube NUT and sleeve" I am referring to this (i used Russell if it really matters):

 

http://www.jegs.com/photos/700/799/799-tubenutsleevedetailz.jpg

 

the above requires a tool like this to make the 37 degree flare on your aluminum hardline (or i personally believe cunifer is acceptable):

 

https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/precision-non-ratcheting-flare-tool

 

when I said aluminum compression (which is not was i prefer to use) i was referring to something like this: (the aluminum is the body material, not the small ring inside).  again, i used russell (the following just shows all the pieces for a fitting/adpater like this):

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/Earls/361/AT165006/10002/-1

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Prayers1, four posts above fordguy69 gave this link address: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/hrdp-1101-performance-fuel-hoses/, and it states:

 

Whether smooth or convoluted, PTFE hose intended for use in fuel or oil system applications should have a small amount of carbon impregnated into the tube bore. Low-conductivity liquid fuels such as oil, gasoline, and diesel have the potential to create an electrostatic discharge due to external environmental factors like high temperatures and humidity. Without the carbon to act as a grounding agent, there is the chance of a spark-inducing electrostatic discharge. Carbon-impregnated PTFE hose can be identified by its gray-black internal core instead of the usual pure white found in industrial-grade PTFE hose.

 

Buckeye also mentions this in engineering jargon :) two posts above. The fuel flowing through the hose can build-up a static charge so we want the fuel line to be conductive. That gives the static charge a place to go- it is conducted to the chassis and dissipated. This is termed "anti-static".

[prayers1 153]

Thank you Buckeye.

Thank you Terry, that helps a lot by knowing just the color of the inner tube.

[MikeStang 247]

Hey Prayers Im looking to pull the trigger on an FI Tech system today but had questions and cant reach them.

Maybe you have some insight.

My motor made 550hp at the crank and I know the standard 600 hp 4 injector system will cover that, but I also have an Nitrous kit I dynode with and it kicked the output up to 659hp and that would mean I need the 600hp with power adder kit from what I have read.

Now heres the kicker...They have the Mean Street EFI which is an 8 injector kit that supports 800hp, and im wondering if that will cover the N20 shot as well?

[prayers1 153]

Sorry I can't answer that question. I have no personal experience with that product. I know you don't want to hear this, but it might be best to speak to FiTech.

 

At this moment,  I'm actually on the fence about installing a plug- n-play TBI.
It's the big hype now and I'm not convinced that it will be much of a power adder, I feel the gains a merely an economical
improvement with better starts, driveabilty not performance.
 
I still believe TBI's are the way to go, this is a new field for myself and I'm still have a lot to learn.  I personally would like to get an Accel EFI throttle body with injectors in the runners of the intake manifold, but then again that my be over my understanding of the system and so I probably will default on getting a plug-n-play unit. I feel the hype too! But which TBI I don't know.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I too am not convinced that EFI is much of a power adder.  If it does, I'd suspect something was wrong with the carburetor setup.  Regarding EFI, yeah, port fuel injection is better than throttle body injection.  The only drawback I've seen with port fuel injection is the intake runners and throttle body get dirty from PCV vapors and crankcase breather vapors because no fuel flows through them to was them down.

[MikeStang 247]

I'm not looking to it so much as a power adder, but rather something to improve drive-ability and provide better throttle response and eliminate the need to tune on a carburetor... Really in the grand scheme of things it will cost ya about double what an HP950 would so its not that far of a stretch for me in terms of is the money spent per returned gained worth it.

 

They said the power adder 600 hp unit was what I would need...The Mean Street Kit wont handle nitrous they said.

[Shep69 149]

Can anyone tell me if the FiTech command centre will fit under the hood . I'm running a 351w with power steering and aircon.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Can anyone tell me if the FiTech command centre will fit under the hood . I'm running a 351w with power steering and aircon.

 

I have the same set-up. I believe you would need to move something, like the battery to the trunk, or like one of our members who removed the windshield washer bottle. It's a shame that he (ray1970 I believe) removed those posts.

[ray1970 88]

If you don't mind removing the washer bottle.(never use it anyway)

Or do a rear mount battery and put it were the battery was..future plan.

[Shep69 149]

I have the same set-up. I believe you would need to move something, like the battery to the trunk, or like one of our members who removed the windshield washer bottle. It's a shame that he (ray1970 I believe) removed those posts.

Cheers Mach1 Driver. I was just looking at this option. I do like the idea but it's looks to be a tight squeeze under the hood. I can live without the windscreen washer bottle but moving the battery is just creating more work.

[Shep69 149]

DSCN0007.JPG

If you don't mind removing the washer bottle.(never use it anyway)

Or do a rear mount battery and put it were the battery was..future plan.

Unless it gets mounted lower than this it won't clear the Aircon lines. I might have to trial fit a dummy one just to be sure.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

DSCN0007.JPG

If you don't mind removing the washer bottle.(never use it anyway)

Or do a rear mount battery and put it were the battery was..future plan.

Thanks for posting the picture Ray- maybe you could make a judgement call here and let us know if the command center would fit if lowered. My AC lines are 3-1/4" below the top of the radiator support in the area where the hood pins attach.

[ray1970 88]

I will have a look when I get home after work..

[ray1970 88]

More current photo.

6 in.of space to the hood.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Ray, from the top of the gauges to the top of the radiator support- just to the right of your tape measure (as viewed in the picture) would be how much? We need 3-1/4" and that looks like it will be close but can't tell because of parallax. That rectangular area below where the hood pin goes is where the lines come through. The bottom of the lower line is 3-1/4 below the top of the radiator support.

Thanks for the help.

[ray1970 88]

different view...