EFI install options

[prayers1 153]

Dan I see your point.  Before I read your post, I spoke to a Tanks Inc, Tech who confirmed what you said and gave me somewhat the same analogy. 

 

He said if there is any residence in a 1/2" line such as 1/4 npt or an-6 fitting, that doesn't dictate the flow since the majority of the supply and return will consist of 1/2" or an-8 lines.  In regards to my system (Carb & EFI pump) I  need more volume in the return to help the regulator reduce pressure.

( I think I got that correctly)

 

From actually seeing the Aeromotive pump - Walbro 11137, I was a little caught off guard with the soda straw outlet, but I see all of the fuel pumps are like that and if the entire system was plumbed 1/4" then there would be problems.

Also, I thought I was getting an Aeromotive patent pump not a Walbro.

 

I did notice that the Advertised information for each company differ even though they almost have the same or identical Walbro pumps:

Aeromotive Walbro 11137

200 lph high performance fuel pump
- 450 HP EFI - Forced Induction
- 600 HP EFI - Naturally Aspirated
- 600 HP Carbureted - Forced Induction
- 750 HP Carbureted - Naturally Aspirated

 

Tanks Inc,

GPA 2-Deluxe Fuel Pump Module - 190 Liters Per Hour - Up to 450 hp / kt

GPA 4-High Flow Fuel Pump Module - 255 Liters Per Hour - Up to 630 hp / kt

 

In any case, since I have the Aeromotive setup and the box is open I'm committed to finish the install!

[1969_Mach1 333]

With incompressible fluid flow the static pressure loss per unit length of tube/pipe/hose is dependent on the relative roughness of the surface, diameter of the tube/pipe/hose, and the velocity squared of the fluid.  As velocity increases static pressure loss increases as a function of the velocity squared.  For a fixed mass flow rate as the diameter increases the fluid velocity reduces thus reducing the static pressure loss.  Most manufacturers of tube or pipe or hose have tabulated data for this static pressure loss on a unit length value which is best to use.  If not, we use a Moody Friction Factor Chart to estimate the friction loss factor.  Elbows, tees, and other fittings have static pressure losses much greater than their length.  In addition, the pressure loss in elbows is also a function of the curve radius.  Large radius elbows create much less pressure loss than short radius elbows.

 

With that, for incompressible fluid flow, the total pressure in a system is constant.  Total pressure = static pressure + velocity pressure + elevation pressure + friction loss pressure.  This equation makes it more clear how each effects the other.  If one value increases another must decrease to keep the total pressure constant.  A gauge mounted to a tube/pipe, etc. measures static pressure. 

 

NOT MY THUMBNAIL

[MikeStang 247]

Take Pics Prayers and let us know how it goes because I am going to probably be doing the same thing.

Im tired of hearing this external fuel pump whine so may as well put it in the tank...Oh Tanks Inc is out of their 1986 EFI Tank For a few months according to their website.

[MikeStang 247]

Also the Aeromotive kit appears to be more forgiving with its design in terms of sealing with that nice big foam or rubber ring they have...Should prove useful on our corrugated tank tops.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Im tired of hearing this external fuel pump whine so may as well put it in the tank...Oh Tanks Inc is out of their 1986 EFI Tank For a few months according to their website.

FYI, I have the higher flow walbro and can hear a little whine in the car. I have dynamat applied to the top of fuel tank and a huge type of insulation under the trunk mat. Fold down car. I've heard some of the aeromotive pumps are a little quieter to a comparable walbro.

[MikeStang 247]

Right now I'm running the edelbrock Quiet flow pump...it was much quieter when I first got it but it's become noisy like all the rest

[prayers1 153]

 Instead of putting a few holes through he trunk and running steel braided lines, I want to use bulkhead fittings.  What do you think is best, an-8 90* bulkhead elbows or straight bulkheads w/ a 90- sweep elbow.  I couldn't find any an-8 90* sweeping bulkhead elbows. How about you guys?

 

I need to use 1/2" w/ an-8 fittings, I don't want to use Alum or SS, I'd like to find something similar to our oem fuel line.

Any ideals who sells a roll of 20 ft.?

[prayers1 153]

Been shopping around for 1/2 tubing, not aluminum.  All that I can find is the expensive Cunifer type.

 

Anyone know of a place to get a zinc type 1/2" tubing at least .25 thickness?

[MikeStang 247]

Hummm... Let me look into that one LOL.

I have used 1/2" aluminum on a number of occasions and as long as you keep it tucked up on the rail and don't let it rub it should be fine.

 

I would use straight bulkhead fittings then sweeping 90's attached to that.

 

So they are saying in order for the regulator to work correctly you need to have what size feed line and return line?

I was hoping to use my brand new Stock size feed line which if I recall is 5/16" and then run a 3/8" return line .

[prayers1 153]

Since I'm using a Carburetor at first, 1/2" is required for Supply and Return, I believe 3/8' or an-6 for EFI.

IIRC, isn't stock 3/8's

[MikeStang 247]

Yeah I think you are right the stock line is 3/8".... So why wont 3/8" work... 3/8 will supply more than enough fuel to support 500 hp on a Carbed application......this is provided the pump is working right and there are no kinks in the line LOL.

Maybe its got something to do with the pump PSI and Volume like you guys were discussing, but I always felt like 1/2" line was over kill for less than 650 or more HP on a carb application..

It seems like any time someone THINKS they have fuel delivery problems its automatically the line size and they jump to 1/2" and waste cash when their motor would do more than fine with the stock 3/8"

[1969_Mach1 333]

Been shopping around for 1/2 tubing, not aluminum.  All that I can find is the expensive Cunifer type.

 

Anyone know of a place to get a zinc type 1/2" tubing at least .25 thickness?

Will this possibly work for you?  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2512/overview/

 

Tube is measured by outside diameter.  So 1/2" tubing with 1/4" wall thickness doesn't exist.  Is there a particular reason you are looking for something with 1/4" wall thickness?

[prayers1 153]

Reason behind the 1/2" is the use of an Electric fuel pump & Carb. You have to use a regulator, one with a by-pass, to bleed off the pressure and return it back to the tank.  Yes, the regulator aids to reduce pressure and the excess pressure is returned to the tank.

 

You can use 3/8 for return on a Throttle Body set up like the FiTech.

 

If you have a Mechanical pump, 3/8's if fine w/ SBF or BBF.  I've seen some pretty big BB's using 3/8's.

 

Looking for OEM steel 1/2", something like our stock line, not Aluminum or Stainless Steel, Thanks!

[1969_Mach1 333]

I was wondering why you were looking for a tube with such a large wall thickness?  Your post mentioned 1/2" tubing with at least 0.25 thickness.  Oh, was that 0.25mm or 0.25 inch thickness?

 

I don't know where you can find 1/2" tube that looks similar to the 3/8" fuel line steel tubing on our cars.  It will be difficult to bend if you find it.

[prayers1 153]

In Line Tubing has SS 1/2" x .028x 20' for $72.00.  They don't sell the hard-line adapters and the only ones I can find are on Summit, they are aluminum low pressure which will not work.

 

Dan- If you stumble across this post, where did you get your hard-line adapters for your Cunifer  1/2" lines.

[MikeStang 247]

Man do you really need that wall thickness in steel...How in the world ya going to bend it?

Those Russell's quick lock fitting and hose is looking like a good deal now LOL

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Been shopping around for 1/2 tubing, not aluminum.  All that I can find is the expensive Cunifer type.

 

Anyone know of a place to get a zinc type 1/2" tubing at least .25 thickness?

have you ever tried bending 1/2 steel tubing?  remember you'll have the entire feed line and return line to make.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

In Line Tubing has SS 1/2" x .028x 20' for $72.00.  They don't sell the hard-line adapters and the only ones I can find are on Summit, they are aluminum low pressure which will not work.

 

Dan- If you stumble across this post, where did you get your hard-line adapters for your Cunifer  1/2" lines.

cunifer is as soft as aluminum. so aluminum adapters work.

[det0326 179]

John

 

These are what i used and are steel and same thing as AN fittings.

 

http://www.hydraulicsdirect.com/37_degree_JIC_fittings_adapter_s/1874.htm

 

Dave

[prayers1 153]

Thank you Dave for that Tip.   Those JIC fittings are nicely priced and a great fine if your doing a steel color, but I'm looking for black fittings.

 

I found in my search that 1/2" steel or Cunifer lines with Black fittings are become more expensive than I thought, In fact this Electric Fuel Pump conversion is quite costly, well that's my opinion.

 

Today I came across a Company called ANFittingsDirect.com, their selling a PTFE braided SS black an-8 Hose at $3.49 per lf or $69.80 @ 20 ft. 

Most of the fittings are selling for $11.99, 4.99 or 3.99 ea.  They do have a notice: These lines are most likely not compatible with other line termination fittings on the market. So it seems they have their our brand.

 

It looks promising to me and within my budget and color I'm shooting for.  Here's a little write up about it. What do you all think?????

 

Most of the braided stainless steel lines and fittings that you can buy actually have a rubber (EPDM or NBR) interior. Some competing products advertise a special coating on the inside of the rubber to make them resistant to ethanol and certain other chemicals. We think this is wrong wrong wrong. Why would you use a material that isn't 100% resistant to the chemicals in your application for absolutely no reason? Our PTFE lines are superior to our competitors rubber lines in every way and they cost less too!

 

These lines are made of high-quality PTFE on the inside that gives them high chemical and heat resistance, along with a braided stainless steel outside which gives them high durability, extreme pressure resistance, and a professional and high-tech appearance. They are smooth bore for optimal flow. Be careful when buying Braided Stainless Steel Hose because they are not all the same! Make sure yours are compatible with the fluid, pressure and temperature in your application.

 

Braided Stainless Steel PTFE lines like these are great for replacing many factory rubber hoses such as rubber fuel lines, brake lines, and clutch lines. PTFE does not deteriorate or bulge with age like rubber does, and has far superior chemical resistance. The stainless steel outside keeps the inner diameter uniform, allowing faster and more efficient fluid transfer (this means a firmer, more responsive pedal feel when replacing brake lines.) The stainless steel outside also keeps the lines looking shiny, new and professional all the time, and prevents damage to the inner hose.

[Rip Rock 13]

The jic fittings can be painted, powder coated and anodized. I have done this before. If powder coating or painting, tape the threads off.

 

A cheaper alternative on hose would be Ac Delco green shield hose http://www.acdelco.com/content/dam/ACDelco/North-America/ACDelco/nscwebsite/en/Home/Auto_Repair/PDF%C2%B4S/Maintenance/Belts_and_Hoses/professional-fuel-line-fuel-injection-hose-ACDelco.pdf I have not personally used this hose, so I have no further info about it.

 

I however run goodridge ptfe Kevlar braided hose( this hose is not for the faint of heart! Major pocket digger). Light weight, very flexible and can run any type of gases and oils. The down side is that you need to buy their socket ends. Then there are some socket ends that only come in certain colours. When I ordered my hose and sockets, I got the company to anodize the sockets for me. I got the raw looking alum finish sockets and got the anodized black. It was cheaper than for me to do it. Here is a reference picture, some random web site I seen and have no idea about the web site https://www.google.ca/search?q=goodridge+fuel+hose&client=safari&hl=en-ca&prmd=imvn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=fFuzLGlI2zB8DM%253A%252C3MS8lkgT35j22M%252C_%253B0MLXxMZ6BszGsM%253A%252C6S61f2NOFT8rIM%252C_%253BBX1Hgbd7N9DDVM%253A%252CjaTGKoXkgBFPeM%252C_%253BmLxLXfUbp_WADM%253A%252CdzetbnTtm4s0PM%252C_%253Bqw1O77nHDcNQ5M%253A%252CsUI1waLyBrMhwM%252C_%253B2jQrx-t5DdgWUM%253A%252CmlBuP6Nk-bevvM%252C_%253BPIR_2pvtTCWVlM%253A%252CyXBS6HWCX86w1M%252C_%253BuBCkq_3BlH90BM%253A%252CTsntYQn2LneFKM%252C_%253BAL6sGUTWvDFVQM%253A%252CJpKz-ZXReg17tM%252C_%253BIZuZLnyTWcmc7M%253A%252CDS7pQYm4tGrYvM%252C_&usg=__ux-Nng7CFXVv0k-zrBAg6gs93jQ%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitotrp7KPLAhUNyGMKHS_DDAYQsAQIJQ&biw=1024&bih=728#imgrc=iDMFsX2m3IYtoM%3A

 

Both of my cars are compatible with any type of fuels. It's a good practice to do imo, will save some headaches down the road. Pay me now or pay me later is what I was thinking. The pay me now part I thought was the cheaper alternative with my luck!

[Mach1 Driver 560]

  They do have a notice: These lines are most likely not compatible with other line termination fittings on the market. So it seems they have their our brand.

 

It looks promising to me and within my budget and color I'm shooting for.  Here's a little write up about it. What do you all think?????

 

John, PTFE is the inner liner material of choice- you might want to find out if it is anti-static. I see some that advertise that they are but I don't know what that means means exactly, that is- are they conductive or not?

The notice that the lines are most likely not compatible with other fittings must refer to the exterior braid and the cap that goes over it (OD or something), since the point of all AN fittings is that they are standardized at least at the connection end.

[det0326 179]

Yes Mach1driver you are right I ran in to this, mix matching ptfe from one company with fittings from another and there is a difference in the ID of the outer nut and OD of the hose. It is better to stay with the same manufacturer, it make life a lot easier. 

 

Dave

[prayers1 153]

1/2" line has been so challenging for me. I thought I had a plan and all figured out.

I purchased a roll of 1/2" Cunifer tubing, a few feet of braided PFTE line, elbows, bulkhead and straight fittings. Bad thing is, no one is endorsing the use of any hardline adapter either with an aluminum or olive brass compression sleeve.

 

I know that members here have used aluminum.

 

The Company I bought the Cunifer from, FedHill recommends brass not aluminum as the compression sleeve, Earls sells a nice 165008erl Hardline Adapter 1/2" to 8an with a brass fitting. When I went to purchase it with Summit they tell me I could only use it with an Aluminum tube line. So, I called Earls and spoke to an Engineer and he said the samething. I'm guessing it's a liability response.

 

So, I went back to FedHill and now they tell me that the preferred method is to place a sleeve onto the line then a ferrel, flare the tube at 37* then get a male to male AN fitting and screw it onto that then your an braided line.

 

I'm not an engineer, nor do I have the resources in my town to actually look at a part before purchase and it seems all of the big suppliers tech lines put you on hold for at least a 1/2hr. So, I'm thinking to return the Cunifer and just get 20 ft. of 1/2 PTFE braided line.

 

Now I have to find one that is NON CONDUCTIVE or NOT!!!!! AND I would like to find one that has a SS Black braid but none is made (from what I've been able to gather).

 

So now I asking you all for your help, I need to find a SS Braided 1/2" line, non conductive and PTFE.  Do you know where I can find 20ft.

As always, thanks for your time and help and putting up with my nonsense!

[fordguy69 24]

the line from anfittingsdirect.com is graphite impregnated and therefore non conductive.