EFI install options

[prayers1 153]

It just dawned on me that the Tanks Inc Fuel Pump has 1/4" npt supply and Aeromotive has 6an or 3/8' supply.

Does anyone see a problem with the 1/4" supply.

 

I'm concerned since I always had a volume problem.  Does Tanks Inc have a pump with 6 AN fittings?

[fordguy69 24]

It just dawned on me that the Tanks Inc Fuel Pump has 1/4" npt supply and Aeromotive has 6an or 3/8' supply.

Does anyone see a problem with the 1/4" supply.

 

I'm concerned since I always had a volume problem.  Does Tanks Inc have a pump with 6 AN fittings?

1/4" npt is equal to -6 an volumetrically.

 

Aeromotive has a good tech article on their website about this.

[prayers1 153]

fordguy69- Thanks for that explanation.  Never had to use various fittings, guess I was spoiled with everything 3/8's.

[prayers1 153]

Here's what fordguy69 was referring to-

 

NPT ports are commonly adapted to AN lines, but the NPT size designation is confusing, identifying the pipe I.D. rather than
the O.D. Black pipe has a much thicker wall than hard line, so the pipe/port O.D. is much larger
than the NPT size would seemto indicate.

 

For example, a 3/8†NPT port will have an outside diameter of 5/8â€, allowing for a wall thickness of 1/8†(0.125â€).
As a result, NPT port sizes allow use of a one step larger AN line than their indicated size would
seem to support. As long as the wall of the adapter fitting is not overly thick, the following NPT Port to AN adapters will provide a common I.D. through-hole:

 

Maximum AN line for NPT port size:
1/4†NPT is compatible with up to-6 AN (3/8†hard line)
3/8†NPT is compatible with up to–8 AN (1/2†hard line)
1/2†NPT is compatible with up to–10 AN (5/8†hard line)
3/4†NPT is compatible with up to-16 AN (1†hard line)

 

Adapter fittings are available for connecting larger than recommended AN lines to
the above NPT ports.

 

Beware, the inside diameter of the adapter fitting will necessarily be smaller on the NPT side, creating a flow restriction that many racers and
hotrod enthusiasts overlook. This is a poor practice and should be avoided, but when no alternative is available, consider sourcing a steel NPT to AN adapter from a good hydraulic supplier. Steel adapters will have a thinner wall than aluminum, due to the increase in material strength, leaving a larger I.D. to support higher flow on the too small, NPT side of the adapter

[1969_Mach1 333]

For what it's worth.  The NPT dimension is a nominal value and does not represent the I.D. or O.D. of the pipe.  Why?  I don't know.  Possibly partly because pipe comes in several different wall thicknesses and the O.D. of a particular size remains the same regardless of wall thickness.  It's best to use a source like the Machinery Handbook for dimensional information.  For example for 3/8" NPT:

 

Sch. 40: O.D. = 0.675", wall thickness is 0.091" and the I.D. = 0.493" --------> close to 1/2" I.D.

Sch. 80: O.D. = 0.675", wall thickness is 0.126" and the I.D. = 0.423" --------> close to 7/16" I.D.

 

It's confusing.  Pipe size designations do not represent the I.D or O.D.

 

I've used several Earls 3/8" NPT to -6 AN adapters.  I haven't looked close, but the adapter I.D always seemed close to the -6 AN tube I.D.  Maybe what I have used follow the NPT dimension standards but have a lower pressure rating because they were aluminum.  I try to keeps the materials the same.  If the tube is aluminum I try to use aluminum fittings.  Mainly to reduce any possible corrosion at the connection. 

[prayers1 153]

Just a thought.

 

I'm interested in using our fuel lines for supply on the drivers side and return on the passenger side. As you know the fuel line comes in two pieces.

Are you guys thinking of putting a fuel filter at the joint on the drivers side, what about the passenger side.

 

Eastwood sells Fuel & Trans Line Tubing- 25 Feet 3/8" for $37.99- Corrosion-resistant steel tubing like OEM on most cars. Includes 25ft of.028" thick wall tubing.

 

Would it be better to buy tubing like the Eastwood??????

[Mach1 Driver 560]

 As you know the fuel line comes in two pieces.

Are you guys thinking of putting a fuel filter at the joint on the drivers side, what about the passenger side.

 

 

I don't think I've ever been under the car to look at the fuel line- where is the joint? Is there some reason it can't be a continuous line until you get up to the engine and need to switch to hose? I thought to put the filter up near the EFI.

[prayers1 153]

Look under the drivers door and follow the line, you'll see where the line separates.

Mach 1 driver, you need to get that lift done asap

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Look under the drivers door and follow the line, you'll see where the line separates.

Mach 1 driver, you need to get that lift done asap

The concrete gets done next week :P

[1969_Mach1 333]

At the connection on the drivers side,  if you remove the hose you will realize there isn't enough room to fit a filter there without cutting the tubing.  That area is a little vulnerable as well.  I would put the filter near the tank and set it up with AN fittings so there is no worry about ever having a leak.  Since that connection you are referring to on the drivers side is needed to get the steel lines in the car, If you plan to use them for the supply line I would convert those to AN fittings as well.  Simply buy a flare tool that does 37 degree flares, gut the swaged ends off of the steel lines, make up a hose with AN fittings, and flare the steel lines to use with AN fittings.

 

I apologize if I missed something.  I haven't followed every post in this thread.  But my thoughts are if you are going to work with fuel pressures for EFI, use AN fittings and eliminate any type of clamp fitting.

 

I've seen fires occur on OEM EFI cars that were running in a shop.  At those pressures, a lot of fuel quickly feeds the fire.  Even when the pump is immediately shut off.  Take extra time to set it up correctly and not worry about it later.

[prayers1 153]

It certainly will be a pleasure to work on your car after the lift is installed.

 

I really don't care to band aid the joining part on the fuel line.

 

I'd rather use a solid line from front to back then use short steel braided and AN fittings.

 

Any suggestions for a 3/8 solid steel line

[barnett468 418]

Any suggestions for a 3/8 solid steel line

 

From where to where?

 

the factory line is joined just before the torque box as mentioned and there is no way to get a one piece line thru the torque box unless you bend it then straighten the bend after it is installed....been there, tried that . . any auto parts store can order a straight line the length you want that with standard fittings.

[1969_Mach1 333]

It doesn't have to be steel braded hose and there are AN fittings that are black anodized for a more subtle look.  Or simply use a AN coupler fitting and no hose.  At least on my Mach 1, in that area the steel fuel lines almost contact each other.  You might be able to flare the ends of the tubes and easily manipulate them enough to install an AN coupler without any hose.

[prayers1 153]

I see that Buckeyedemon, who is well respected here, used roll of 1/2" cunifer and used An fittings with a piece of nylon braided hose to join each section.  This can be seen if you type in his build thread "fuel lines". 

 

There is a picture showing this connection.  I might ask him what he used or if he happens to see this thread, maybe he can give his advise.

 

I made a similar connection.  I cut a section of the small hard line that went from the fuel pump to the longer section of fuel line.  There I used a compression fitting and attached a braided 3/8 steel hose w/ 6 an fitting and ran it to my mechanical fuel pump.  Now Electric fuel pump is a different story since it has more pressure.  So, I don't know how a compression fitting would act.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I've seen compression fittings hold that pressure.  If it were my car, regardless of what anybody says, no compression fittings on fuel lines, especially with EFI pressures.  Simply because a fuel leak.can be a disaster.  Just trying to be safe.

[prayers1 153]

Yes, Safety is my first priority as well. Then what do you suggest??

[det0326 179]

Prayers  from reading your posts seems you maybe already decided to go another way but fwiw  here are the pictures I promised you. 

[det0326 179]

Let me know when you see the pictures and are done with them I will delete so it won't clutter up your thread, I will put them in my build album or something  Didn't know they would be that big,may take too long for them to load when someone views this thread.

 

Dave

[1969_Mach1 333]

My preference is AN fittings.  For some reason the 37 degree flare on AN fittings seals better than 45 degree inverted flare fittings.  I understand the Army and Navy developed it for hydraulic use, hence the AN designation.  All hydraulics today that I know of use it.  They are very easy to assemble and flare accuracy is not nearly as critical as the 45 degree flares.  Also, on hard lines with AN ends, a tube sleeve with the same 37 degree flare and a tube nut slips on the tube before creating the flare, then after assemble the tube nut tightens against the sleeve and the sleeve pushes against the tube flare.  The sleeve prevents the tube nut from damaging the flared tube end when it is tightened.

 

Summit and Jegs sell flaring tools for 37 degree flares.  When you lay out the fuel line setup you'll see where couplers or hard line to hose connections will need to be.  My preference is basic black or clear anodized fittings and I don't like those bright shiny stainless steel hoses.

[prayers1 153]

det0362-Thank you for taking the time to load the pictures. I did not start this thread, but I assume it is being used by all to contribute their thoughts and ideals on converting to EFI.

 

If I were you, I'd leave them here since it's related to EFI conversion on our vehicles, it will help us all.  It's your choice!

Did you use compression fittings?

 

Money is tight, so I'm still thinking on which way to go, so I haven't bought anything yet!!!!! I'm in the EFI learning stage.

Besides, I'm kinda inbetween the process of rebuilding a salvaged 2013 F250 6.7 Diesel Fx4 and Mustang EFI. 

 

Right now we are painting the F250!!!!!

[barnett468 418]

if by compression fitting you mean a regular inverted flare fitting, they will hold over 2,000 psi.

[det0326 179]

I just used regular  hydraulic inverted flared joints, they are called jic 37* fittings.  I used to work at a place that made hydraulic control valves for John Deer and Caterpillar and this is what we used all the time. Good for thousands of PSI. My fuel line is not professional by no means but as good as an old man like me can do laying under a car. If I had been smart I would have done this when it was on the rotisserie.  I will leave the pic's if no body complains with it taking to long to load. I know on one forum if you put big pictures on there some people will complain.

 

Dave 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Prayers  from reading your posts seems you maybe already decided to go another way but fwiw  here are the pictures I promised you. 

I think we all appreciate the pictures but if I may make a suggestion it would help if you could identify where and what each shows. Thanks

[prayers1 153]

I'm getting tired trying to figure what the EXACT fitting I will need to incorporate 3/8's metal tubing to a 6an fitting. I think I have been scanning the web way too long confusing myself with tons of different fittings.

 

If someone can tell what to use, please do.......

Fittings to use on SS braided lines I know, it's the fitting off the metal tube line that accepts the AN fitting I'm looking for.

 

Also, any good YouTube tutorials showing the above procedure.

 

Thank you!

[1969_Mach1 333]

If the 3/8" metal tubing has a straight cut end you simply slide a 6 AN tube nut and a 6 AN tube sleeve over the tube then flare the tube end to 37 degrees with a flaring tool.  Now the tube end is setup for 6 AN and you can attach to it any 6 AN fitting you need.  Below are some examples of what you need. 

 

Tube Sleve:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220634-2b/overview/

 

Tube nut:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220633-2b/overview/

 

If the 3/8" steel fuel line has the standard 45 degree end with a nut on it and you want to leave it, you need an inverted flare to AN adapter.  5/8"-18 inverted flare to 6 AN:  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-640610/overview/

 

Some flaring tools:  http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/flaring-tools/flare-degree/37-degree?N=4294638575%2B4294856197&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=flaring%20too&sw=Flaring%20Tools

 

det0326 mentioned he used 37 degree hydraulic fittings.  Those are AN fittings.  So if you have a local shop that makes hydraulic hoses they should have a selection of steel and possibly stainless steel fittings.  I found stainless steel fittings at a local auto parts store that makes hydraulic hoses and used those on a steel tube instead of aluminum fittings.  I don't know if that was needed, it was just my preference.

 

When I started working with AN fittings for my fuel line it was confusing.  I used Summit's, Earl's, and Russel's (Edelbrock) web sites to find what I needed.  It wasn't easy.

 

Hope this helps clear up some confusion.