Need Some Legal Help Guys

[MikeStang 247]

Well this Isn't about a mustang but old car question in general.

 

I recently sold my old 1977 Trans-Am.

I gave a detailed description of the car and said it would need to be fully restored.

I had a few folks come look at it and decided it was more work than they wanted to do.

 

The car was in pretty good driver condition but It had obvious signs of rust in the quarters, doors etc.

I have not messed with the car in over 5 years, it just sat in the garage and I would start it from time to time...1 month b4 I sold it I put it on my trailer and took it to the track and made a few 12s passes wrapped up with an 11.90 on a 125 shot.

 

Anyhow this guy comes to see the car, we go for a drive and I drive it then let him drive it, I pop The hood and he looks...I offer to pull valve covers for him to look under to see that there are HS Rockers under there Etc...

I pointed out all of the rusty spots in the body that you could see and some you could not....When this car is washed and cleaned it looks fabulous but you can see it needs a resto.

 

I volunteered all of the information I knew about the car after owning it for 15 years of the last 5 I had not touched it....The guy asked me about the floor pans and I said "I dont know what they look like" I have never removed the carpet, but I offered to remove the seats and carpet so we could both have a look...he said no its ok.

THEN I offered to put the car up on jack stands and give him a drop light so he could inspect underneath the car...Told him do what ever you would like to and just let me know when you are done and I will take it off stands.... He said don't worry about it and agreed to pay my asking price of a WOPPING $5,000 My ad clearly stated do not try to offer me less if you do that's the end of the conversation.

As a whole this car IMHO a very solid car for a restoration.

 

He cant wait to get the car so I locate a Notary on a Sunday I believe it was and get the paperwork done and i accept a CHECK which I NEVER do but this fellow and I have a lot of Past Military Exp in common and he is a business owner so I think ok...plus he Isnt coming to get the car till Monday night and I can cash check before then.

 

Anyhow a day or so later he sends me a pic of the car all washed and waxed and I was Like WOW I forgot how pretty the car was when It was clean...

 

Then a few days later I get a call and he tells me there is rust in the frame and his mechanic said it would be 1,000 to replace the rails and wants to know what I'm going to do to make it right....My first response was I'm not doing anything to make it right because #1. I gave you EVERY chance to find every speck of rust on the car....I did not know there was frame rust tho...and #2 if your mechanic says he can replace both rails for 1,000 I would take that deal 2 times.

 

If I had not already bought a shit load of parts for my MUSTANG I would have just refunded his money because he was a dumb ass and didn't understand the meaning of NEEDS A RESTORATION.

 

Now fast forward about 5 months and I get a text with a pic of a rusty driver side floor pan and the caption says "So much for perfect floor pans".... I'm like WOW there is some rust there....about a 1'x1' patch needs replacing... Didnt know that was there but did offer to pull the carpet for the shit bag and he refused....Honestly I didn't give a shit about the car anymore and had completely lost interest and wanted it gone that's why I never inspected it, I just got in turned the key and it fired off 1st time EVERY time....

Car had a .030 455 with less than 20k miles, cam, ported cast iron heads, MSD, Custom tuned Dist, HP950, T2 Intake, HS Rockers, SS Valves, TRW Forged Pistons All ARP Bolts, a $900.00 converter, built TH350, 8.5" Auburn Posi with 31sp axles etc... CLEARLY 5,000 plus in Drive train alone.

 

Anyhow I thought at $5,000 this was a damn STEAL for this car even if it had no floor pans and buckets for seats, the paint was serviceable, and only interior tears or rips were in the driver seat cushion bottom...Dash pad and steering wheel were in Perfect condition as well as the original center console...hell the Damn AM/FM radio was still hooked up and WORKED.

 

Now this Dick head is saying he is going to sue me because I didn't give him his money back several months ago when he asked, "He asked what I was going to do to make it right...never asked for his money back".. then said I couldnt sale a vehicle AS IS to a business and on top of that because I sold it to a business he could hit me for repairs of any UNDISCLOSED damages....

I asked him if he had still been working on it and he said it is a business asset.

I was like HUH?

 

#1. Bill of sale had his name on it not his business

#2. He did pay with a check with his company name on it I think

#3. We did a bill of sale for $500.00 NOT $5,000... I was trying to help him out so he wouldn't owe so much in taxes after he asked me.

 

Then the ass clown says I should have got out when he gave me a way months back and that now he wasn't worried about the cash but rather making a point and that his lawyers retainer fees were more than he paid for the car... Um ok that was a dumb ass move.

 

Anyhow I don't think I ripped this guy off in the least, I actually felt like I was selling the car too cheap but I was sick of looking at it and wanted to start on my Mustang.

 

So Should I sale my Mustang to a Friend so he cant take everything I own or what LOL...

Im in Louisiana BTW can anyone give me some advice...This thing was sold AS IS under the pretense it needed a COMPLETE RESTORATION

 

I have never been involved in anything like this because I don't do dirty deals

 

Mike

[69droptopgt 10]

As Is sale is as is. He would lose any lawsuit. Also, b/c he took the fake bill of sale, the most he could sue you for is $500 b/c that is what is lasted as sale price.

[waketek516 10]

As Is sale is as is. He would lose any lawsuit. Also, b/c he took the fake bill of sale, the most he could sue you for is $500 b/c that is what is lasted as sale price.

 

This. I've done that before myself on both ends (being the buyer and seller) knowing that if a legal thing came up - the car was "legally" sold for for what Bill of Sale and DMV papers said.

 

You're fine. Reiterate the facts to him - Sold as is, Said it needed Resto, offered for him to remove carpets, sold for $500. At that point he should just wave the :surrender:

[MikeStang 247]

I am hoping that this is what will happen, but the fact that this schmuck will still be perusing this matter is beyond my comprehension.

I dont understand how someone with so much money to burn would even bother with sending me a text saying he was gonna sue me when he could have spent that money doing repairs to the car..... And to think this guy was a former SF guy.... I saw the pics so I know that much is true.... What a looser....Suppose he can still sue me tho since you can sue anyone for anything... Hopefully I dont need legal council.

[MikeStang 247]

Oh Im sure he has the cashed check that is made out to me for $5,000 and says Trans Am on the bottom ...hummm

[waketek516 10]

Oh Im sure he has the cashed check that is made out to me for $5,000 and says Trans Am on the bottom ...hummm

 

Shouldn't matter. Maybe he paid you a $4,500 finder's fee as a bonus.:clap:

 

If not - He's proving tax fraud by signing a bill of sale for the incorrect amount.

[69droptopgt 10]

Yeah, he would be in trouble. Also, if being used as a Biz asset, tell him you will tell the court that he said he does this every time he does anything to prevent paying taxes and defraud the government.

[69volunteer 84]

Offer to buy it back for the bill of sale at $500. What a jackass. I wouldnt worry about it--he's got nothing to stand on.

 

Clear case of buyer's remorse.

[69droptopgt 10]

I would not respond to any more texts with the axe hole. Don't put anything into writing except for a final settlement if you decide to give him anything back. I would not give him anything back.

[MikeStang 247]

I did mention last night while he was texting me about what did the bill of sale say in regards to price...He said "That Doesn't matter".

 

I feel bad about the whole deal...I did offer to replace the bad floor pan if he would bring me the car and the pan I would dedicate what ever time it took me to replace the pan.... Shouldnt take more than a few hrs.... I doubt he will go for that LOL..

It all seems like he is just blowing smoke and still wants me to refund the whole purchase price.

Oh and he did say that he does the cheap bill of sale deal all the time...

Guy talks a Major good game but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts I think he is just a pocket book who drops his cars off to some one else and lets them do ALL the work...and he thought he was Swindling me because the car was priced well below one that looks that nice when in all reality It was priced about right to a bit low IMHO....

Screw it I am just gonna let it ride because I can find nothing in the Louisiana Law that states anything about this kind of stuff....We dont have a Cooling off period or buyers Remorse law....Hell I had buyers remorse when I bought my 69 and began tearing into it....I thought I had found a REALLY GOOD car but turns out it was just like all the rest, full o rust and ready to have thousands put into it... HAHA

[69droptopgt 10]

He is full of crap. He is not going to do anything. Deals between people do not have buyers remorse laws. Only deals between a company selling a good to people do, usually 3 days. But not in every state. Next time he contacts you, tell him what you will give him monetarty (don't offer much, I would not give him poop) and say if he does not take it, don't contact you again.

[Rsanter 152]

I hate to tell you this but if you go to court you will need to lie your ass off.

Why?

Because he will.....I guarantee it.

You need to come up with a good solid story and stick to it. It dosent have to be very far from the truth but stick with it.

Tell the court ( if you go) that you offered a full refund on the car but he said no he wants the car he just wants some money back. Make him look like a bigger swindler than he is.

 

Bob

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Stop responding to him. Let him take you to small claims court.

He will have to prove you did anything wrong on a as is sale.

What he is seeking is money to do the repairs from your wallet, not his.

Last moron that tried this on me had his ass handed to him by the judge and had to pay my loss of days wage and court costs.

[2011SVT 10]

If it was me i would:

 

1. Stop talking/communicating with this guy. Right now. Period. He's trying to get you to say or write something that might help his eventual case. Don't do him any favors.

 

2. Chances are he'll just get tired of playing the game. If he doesn't and he takes no other legal action, harassment is what restraining orders are for.

 

3 If he takes some legal action (and I'm not talking about having his lawyer writing you a nasty letter - which you should also ignore) worry about it then. It sounds like you are in the right here. Do not do anything to damage your credibility before a judge (like lie - let him do that). Just have your story and paperwork lined up. You might want to research specific 'merchantability' laws in your state to determine if a private auto sale like this is considered 'as is' even if that's not written on the bill of sale.

[grendi 16]

i totally agree with 2011SVT

and don't offer him anything except maybe you take the car back for the 500$ because he could try to make a judge think you offered it because it was your fault!

if you should decide to make the 500$ offer, send the letter with a return receipt!

[MikeStang 247]

Well I don't have any paper work, I just gave him a bill of sale and didn't bother with a copy, I didn't think I needed one....I have never had this happen to me before or I would have gotten one from him... I always do it on Guns but have never even considered getting one on a car...At least I dont think that I have one...I will need to look and be sure however ;-/

He said his attorney has all of the text messages that he and I have sent back and forth...When I got my new phone I think I lost all of my old ones...Have to check that also.

If it goes to court I suppose that I will just have to tell the story to the best of my recollection and bring pictures of the car and hope that a judge will see the truth.

I would think however that once a bill of sale is presented that says $500.00 was all that was paid for the car the worst thing that a judge could say was ok Mr. Dorough your buying the car back for $500.00 .... at that point I would just say ok Deal and pay him and go get my car..Wouldn't that just be funny as hell... And at this point I would for sure take my car back for $500.00... I would think that this would be the deciding factor that a Judge would see would be the fact that the bill of sale is for $500.00 and this guy is saying he paid me $5,000 and even with a cashed check for that amount, a bill of sale is a bill of sale and he only paid taxes on a $500.00 purchase....

I wonder if the car is in his name...

I also am under the impression that if you do not submit in writing a certified letter stating that you want your money back then there is no way of knowing if you REALLY requested a refund...Which he didn't, he just asked what I was going to do to make it right....

Im just astounded that some jerk wad thinks he got screwed, I mean this was a running driving car that ran 12 second passes all day long, had a decent paint job even with the rust that you couldn't see on the exterior because it was black....Hell most ppl never even noticed it when they were standing right by the car because its all so low to the ground, the interior was even serviceable as it was, and every piece of electronic equipment from headlights to tail lights worked, hell even the rear defroster worked...Now the air wasn't installed but you could see that...You cant buy a POS Honda for what this asshole paid for my car.

It just really pisses me off that anyone would think that they were ripped of by buying the car... And I really thought this was the RIGHT person to have the car after all the shit he talked about what he was going to do with it...

Guess it goes to show that people have no Idea what they are getting into with a Restoration if they have never had a hand in doing one

[LoneWolf2U 136]

So his lawyer is a matching asshat too!

Disregard any thing these morons say, Courts do not reward plaintiffs with unclean hands. IE, the bill of sale does not match the claim for damages.

They are both blowing smoke up your ass in hope you will fund the repairs for him.

[MikeStang 247]

I have not spoken with either of the ass clowns, only text with the guy who bought the car and I made sure I kept saying that I didn't wrong him and gave him every chance to look at the car and told him all that I knew about it.

I made sure I would sound like the innocent guy.

Only thing that worries me is the fact that he says he is filing the suit in his parish not in Livingston Parish where the car was bought at....And if he has any Clout with anyone there then It could be nasty...Said he is Filing paperwork on Friday.

If I hear from him again I will offer him a full refund of selling price "Listed on Bill Of Sale"

Wish he was dumb enough to say ok Ill take a full refund and bring the car back and I hand him $500.00 Cash..hahah.

[Pakrat 1,043]

I agree that I don't think he has a leg to stand on, he's trying to bully you and make you cave. The only thing that worries me is that you didn't keep a copy of the bill of sale, hopefully you also spelt out Five Hundred and 00/100 and not just as $500 so he can't try to add a zero to it on you. Though if he did and you could see it was doctored that would work against him.

 

Sadly these days it seems like you have to record every conversation you have with someone, at least when it comes down to money or sexual innuendo. My buddy who is a Vet over trusted another Vet once and got screwed because of it.

[MikeStang 247]

Yeah and this guy supposedly has plenty of money to burn that's why he said its not the money but the PRINCIPAL of the thing since I told him if he had any problems we would try to work it out....by PROBLEMS I said that to mean mechanical issues like he starts the car and the motor Blows up, but that didnt go in writing, but I am a man of my word if he had called and said the motor dropped a rod while it was Idling I would have shit myself but would have believed him and helped him take care of it... I was gonna give that about a week or 2 and then that was all....I had no doubts about the car, I had beat on this thing every which way from Sunday and it just kept putting out I destroyed the stock transmission in it by manually downshifting while going too fast lol but that was fixed with a rebuild done right...Aside from that the car would not quit....It really pissed my friends off when I would let it sit for 6 months and slap a battery in it and pat the gas about 5 good pumps and it would fire off even tho you could smell the old gas haha....

Hell I even made a point of rebuilding the HP 950 before he came and got it....that cost me over $50.00 and my time right there.

Such A DOUSCHE I don't want to go to court but I almost would love to go and torch his ass.

Got me all upset and I dont want to Touch my 69 Stang :-(

[Grabber70Mach 107]

I agree that I don't think he has a leg to stand on, he's trying to bully you and make you cave. The only thing that worries me is that you didn't keep a copy of the bill of sale, hopefully you also spelt out Five Hundred and 00/100 and not just as $500 so he can't try to add a zero to it on you. Though if he did and you could see it was doctored that would work against him.

 

Sadly these days it seems like you have to record every conversation you have with someone, at least when it comes down to money or sexual innuendo. My buddy who is a Vet over trusted another Vet once and got screwed because of it.

 

You think the same way I do Pak.

[Big Secz 26]

First of all for the amount you we are talking here, like someone mentioned, it would be in small claims court and lawyers wouldn't even get involved. His "lawyer" is probably some golf buddy trying to scare you into submission via paper.

 

Even if he took you to small claims court it wouldn't hold up. First of all you sold the car as-is with no implied warranty. Secondly you don't need a buyers order because the title acts as the buyers order. He then transferred the title into his name and therefore accepted delivery of the car. In other words he now owns the car and it is not your problem.

 

I'd block his number so he couldn't text me anymore and be done with it.

[69gmachine 15]

I think it's highly unlikely he will actually do anything, he's all bluff.

 

In our legal system, anyone can "sue" anyone for anything. Worst case is you end up with a court date. Make sure you go, stick with the facts, stay calm and courteous. The onus will be on him to provide documentation to prove that you misrepresnted the car as "rust free". If you didn't provide that, any reasonably honest judge will quickly toss the case (even in our very corrupt system).