Crate Motor Advice

[Machspeed 219]

Gents, if you were going to order a crate motor, from whom would that be? I am currently looking at a Ford Crate Motor, 427 Stroker but a couple of engines from the Engine Factory have gathered my attention. I can find no bad on these people and comments from others seems quite impressive. These are complete builds, ready to run right out of the crate......thoughts????

 

Here's a link to the Engine Factory: http://www.enginefactory.com/Ford_performance_engine_choices.htm

[Powershift 19]

I just placed my order yesterday for a Keith Craft Racing 408 stroker. I've talked to them several times, and like the option of parts you have to chose from with their crate motors. I went with an Eagle stroker crank, Eagle H-Beam rods, and Mahle pistons.

[chillininnh 21]

I have seen some threads on other forums about the new Ford 427 stroker having oil burning problems.

 

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/small-block-talk/113483-ford-racing-427-burning-oil.html

 

Can't go wrong with Keith Craft IMO. Having it built locally is always the better option if you can price match with a REPUTABLE local shop.

[Machspeed 219]

I just placed my order yesterday for a Keith Craft Racing 408 stroker. I've talked to them several times, and like the option of parts you have to chose from with their crate motors. I went with an Eagle stroker crank, Eagle H-Beam rods, and Mahle pistons.

 

Powershift, I sent you a PM. Thanks for commenting!

 

John

[Max Power 74]

I just don't like the prices of crate motors when you can build your own for somewhere around half what most places are asking.

[DRASTiK 22]

Depends on what your priorities are. If you want an engine sooner rather than later and are happy with what they have currently available, then go for it. If you're more interested in putting together a unique recipe of your own, then build it or have it built for you. The downside to that is that it takes longer to get the engine because it's not built yet.

 

In the past, I always assembled my own engines. Just this week however, I ordered a custom build from FordStrokers. This will be my first professionally built engine. I've got 5 ASE certifications and know my way around a shop, but that doesn't make me a professional engine builder. Big difference between a mechanic and an engine builder.

 

The downside is that the labor costs make me gag, but that's just because I'm comparing them to $0. It will also take them some time to get the engine done because they are backed up. In my situation, that's fine because the car's not ready yet. It should be ready by the time the engine arrives.

Edited March 21, 2012 by DRASTiK

[Powershift 19]

I just don't like the prices of crate motors when you can build your own for somewhere around half what most places are asking.

 

Yep, you for sure pay more for a crate motor. But, I'm at the point in my life where I have built enough of my own engines. I don't "need" anymore practice. I'm also at a point where my life is too busy to assemble my own engine, and get the car back on the road, any time under the next 10 years! LOL

 

The crate motors from reputable companies include a 2 year warranty too. Nice to know they stand behind their products. Also, the crate motors from reputable builders are all dyno tune and tested, prior to dropping them into your car.

 

In other words, yes... they aren't cheap. But, the perks for me outweigh the negatives.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

the amount of money i could have saved by doing labor myself instead of having the machine shop do it is listed below:

 

Tap Front Oil Galleys: $15

Debur Main Saddles, etc: $75

Mild Oil Galley Mods: $20

Clearance Check Rods/Mains: $100

Heli Coil Timing Cover Bolt Hole: $15

Assembly V8 Complete: $650

 

the above totals up to $875. that amount of money didn't seem like a big deal at all compared to the cost of parts and knowing that someone who builds SBF's everyday knows what to look for.

 

there were other charges for balancing, resizing the rods, boring, etc that i don't have the tools for.

 

i have a complete partslist (not just a back of the napkin summary of the major items) and in my opinion crate motors do cost just a little more if simiilar parts were used (but not that much more).

[rwcstang 203]

got mine from FPS, I herd Fordstrokers is really good, Keithkrat I herd is superb. if anything i think it would be better to go to a local machine shop and having them do it. in case anything you can take it back instead of shipping the motor back n fourth.

 

but if you do go for an out of state shop

ask everything, even if its the most dumb question in the world they should answer it.

 

I had a nightmare with a shop in LA in the end he went out of business and took tons of ppls money including mine, finally i found him working at a company and I garnished his wages. he still owes me, but i can easily find him.

[BigDuke6 17]

if anything i think it would be better to go to a local machine shop and having them do it. in case anything you can take it back instead of shipping the motor back n fourth.

 

I agree. while I have only heard good things about KC, I read lots of horror stories on SN about engines from crate sellers like Coast High, just to name one, that came poorly assembled; rod bolts not properly torqued, stroker crank not properly clearanced, etc., that I decided not to risk getting one. I opted to have a local Dutch guy do it and he did a bang up job. He did such a good job that I am reluctant to stroke it now because I cannot be sure to find a shop here in Germany that is as good as he is. If anything ever goes wrong with my car, the local guy (granted, he is now 6 hours away) will tear into it and if it is his fault, he will fix it for free.

 

If you have a block and can get the parts for a good price, a good local shop should be able to make you an engine for less than one of the crate sellers. And being local, you don't have to pay a fortune to ship the engine back if something goes wrong.

Edited March 22, 2012 by BigDuke6

[PaleRider 12]

I used fordstokers for my 347 - had it narrowed down to Keith Craft, Smeeding, Engine Factory, and Ford Stokers. All had good reputations. Finally went with Fordstokers cause they were within driving distance. Very happy with the purchase - no regrets.

[Jimjific 23]

I'm with Max Power on this one. I just dig building a motor. It's part of the fun of owning these old cars. as for time? True enough it is harder to find, but I plan on building a motor on the side so I can still drive the car. When I'm done, I will (hopefully) drop and go. If the car was my daily driver, maybe I would think differently

 

My two cents,

Jim

[Max Power 74]

Dont get me wrong, not knocking people who go that route, I am an ASE Matser myself and I still have something to learn everyday from people who build these things every day, but I am looking at upgrading from my 393 with marginal internals to a 427, and doing the math, I would be out about 5 grand in parts and $1000 in labor. Any crate motor I look at with the same specs would be about 12k. For me the biggest PITA is the removal and re-installation, especially now that I have the body done and don't want to nick the paint.

 

6 grand for a new block and some labor just doesn't fly with me. For that money I am buying a Kaase Boss 429....LOL!

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Dont get me wrong, not knocking people who go that route, I am an ASE Matser myself and I still have something to learn everyday from people who build these things every day, but I am looking at upgrading from my 393 with marginal internals to a 427, and doing the math, I would be out about 5 grand in parts and $1000 in labor. Any crate motor I look at with the same specs would be about 12k. For me the biggest PITA is the removal and re-installation, especially now that I have the body done and don't want to nick the paint.

 

6 grand for a new block and some labor just doesn't fly with me. For that money I am buying a Kaase Boss 429....LOL!

 

it would make sense to me that if you already had most of the parts that you wouldn't get a crate motor.

 

it would seem to be a different case if you are starting from scratch with nothing.

[PaleRider 12]

Big price difference between ford racing and engine factory. Not sure I could justify the extra cash.

[DRASTiK 22]

For me, it was an extra 800 or so over building it myself because I have a virgin block here already, but by the time I shipped it to them it would almost cancel out the cost of them using a block they have on hand. The assembly labor sums up the rest of that fee, but if I was to assemble it myself, it would take me forever to find the time as I prefer to build an engine from start to finish without stopping to do other projects and finding large chunks of time is tough for me lately. I can find an hour or two here and there, or maybe 4 hours on a Saturday evening. Starting and stopping on an engine build like that leaves too much room for mistakes or accidentally skipping things. So, for me, that extra cost comes gives peace of mind, as well as someone to call if it grenades upon startup ;-).

[Max Power 74]

it would make sense to me that if you already had most of the parts that you wouldn't get a crate motor.

 

it would seem to be a different case if you are starting from scratch with nothing.

 

The only thing I am saving from the old motor would be the block, intake carb and valve covers. Not that different a case at all.

 

To each their own, again, not condemning anybody, I would rather have the 6 grand to spend on a manual conversion...LOL!

[gsxrken 21]

You ask for opinions, so here goes. I would never go with any of the stroker out of state builders. There are too many horror stories out there and KC is no exception. Of course, the internet only highlights the complainer side of these companies, not the 900 folks who were perfectly happy.

 

But that said, if I didn't build all my own stuff, I would only go with OEM. Ford themselves make a nice 540HP 351W based stroker with a stout new block and all new parts. A quick google found it for 1k less than they list it for here.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11892

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

The only thing I am saving from the old motor would be the block, intake carb and valve covers. Not that different a case at all.

 

To each their own, again, not condemning anybody, I would rather have the 6 grand to spend on a manual conversion...LOL!

 

you're going to build a 427w with better internals for around $6k? do you have a partslist for this build? somehow i spent 2X that amount.

[Machspeed 219]

You ask for opinions, so here goes. I would never go with any of the stroker out of state builders. There are too many horror stories out there and KC is no exception. Of course, the internet only highlights the complainer side of these companies, not the 900 folks who were perfectly happy.

 

But that said, if I didn't build all my own stuff, I would only go with OEM. Ford themselves make a nice 540HP 351W based stroker with a stout new block and all new parts. A quick google found it for 1k less than they list it for here.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11892

 

From what I'm finding, that Ford crate motor is not immune to problems either. In fact, I find more problems with it than I can find with anything KC. Additonally, KC is just over the border from me in Arkansas....not too much of a haul. If I go with them, I may go pick up my motor.

[Max Power 74]

you're going to build a 427w with better internals for around $6k? do you have a partslist for this build? somehow i spent 2X that amount.

 

You can get a lower end forged crank and slugs assembly with I-beam rods, bearings, rings, etc from CHP for 2k. You can get AFR 205 heads for 2k, and you can get a comp cams roller conversion cam for less than 1k. That leaves you a generous 1k at the machine shop to get it all balanced and together. That's 6k total.

 

Clearly if you are yanking a spent 2v motor, you will have carb, intake, oil pan, headers to buy, but you get the idea.

[Powershift 19]

Every time I've built a motor, or a friend I know has built one, the budget always runs WAY over the estimate. Building a hot motor never seems to stay in the estimated price range as it slowly comes together. So, when I hear a 6K estimate.... I suspect it will be more like 8K.

 

In my case, I'm going from a Cleveland to a Windsor based engine. About the only part I can reuse from the old engine is the Shaker, and even that is going to have some fitment issues. So, buying a complete, pro built, crate motor really is my best option.

 

And, as already said... only pissed off people are really going to post their views. The majority of happy customers aren't nearly as vocal. I'm very confident Keith Craft will be an amazing job on my engine.

[cobrakidz 10]

I am at a point in my life where it makes more sense for me to have an engine built than to do it myself. I owned a paint shop for 15 years but right now I have one of my cars in a friends paint shop--I would rather pay someone to do it and have it done right with a warranty. I could do it cheaper but it's a time thing.

[Max Power 74]

Every time I've built a motor, or a friend I know has built one, the budget always runs WAY over the estimate. Building a hot motor never seems to stay in the estimated price range as it slowly comes together. So, when I hear a 6K estimate.... I suspect it will be more like 8K.

 

In my case, I'm going from a Cleveland to a Windsor based engine. About the only part I can reuse from the old engine is the Shaker, and even that is going to have some fitment issues. So, buying a complete, pro built, crate motor really is my best option.

 

And, as already said... only pissed off people are really going to post their views. The majority of happy customers aren't nearly as vocal. I'm very confident Keith Craft will be an amazing job on my engine.

 

That's often the case, but to me, 4k is 4k. The only way I buy a crate is to get a Dart block. 4k will buy me an overdrive conversion. I have done this many times so I know my estimate will be pretty accurate.

 

I totally get the time thing, and many people don't have the equipment to do it themselves either. I also get the warranty thing as well.

 

For me, saving 5-6k, building an engine in nice weather in my garage while listening to ball games and enjoying a cigar is actually not a chore at all. Plus there is a certain satisfaction in doing it your self.

 

To each his own.

[Mike65 476]

I have been kicking around this same thought, do I build my motor or buy a crete motor already built. I enjoy doing it & have done it before, I dont want anything radical just a dependable street cruiser so I will probably build it myself.... I think, I already have an engine that needs a rebuild.