Pedal to the metal, now car stumbles and turns off

[rwcstang 201]

Hello everyone, Happy Independence Day!

 

so today I decided to take the car out for drive, was getting on the freeway and started stepping on the gas, then all of sudden lost power and car died.  I tried turning it over but the car stumbles & dies even herd a pop now and when I accelerate I feel it mis firing, no power and tries to die, barely made it home. 

 

recently my alternator (1g conversion) died and fried my battery replaced that and I was back to normal 

 

 

any ideas where to start? I was thinking to look at ignition (Spark plugs and wires)

[ray1970 88]

If you had a motor with big miles on it I would say the timing chain jumped..

But i dont think that is the case with you....

 

I would say ing. is the most likely culprit...

Not knowing a lot about your car its hard to say..

[det0326 179]

was your distributor lock down tight?

[Midlife 814]

You running points?  If so, I'd suspect the capacitor inside the dizzy went bad.

[rwcstang 201]

no points, I am running a summitracing ready to run. I did notice the lockdown screw was some what lose, Decided to look at distributor and took off the rotor cap and noticed the rotor spinning freely by my hand (uh-oh), decided to pull out the distributor, and noticed the pin that holds the cam gear snapped.

 

luckily the gear it self or anything of that matter was not damaged, only the pin snapped.luckily it broke in 3 pieces.. sigh..the car gods are mad at me for some reason..I need to do a sacrifice or something.. lol

[Brian Conway 264]

Your are to be commended.  That was a pretty quick resolution to your cars problem.  Brian

[RPM 1,190]

I'm thinking you might want to make sure the oil pump still turns freely. I've never had the roll pin sheer but it probably takes quite a bit of force.

[rwcstang 201]

I am running a high vol oil pump too, but ill be sure to check it out before i re-install the distributor. 

[ray1970 88]

Had the same problem many years ago.

Got to the point I was carring a spare gear and roll pins and the tools to change them on the road.

In the end I changed the oil pump and all was good..

I have heard of people using two roll pins but i dont think that is the answer...  

[rwcstang 201]

what can cause this issue? signs of an oil pump failure? 

[ray1970 88]

The best I can remember in my case It was a USED HV pump with a heavy spring that was also shimed a bit.

Would show over 100 psi of oil presser at cold idle.(Over kill)

 

I also had a distributor where the the shaft was so far under size were it went into the block it would just tear the gears off it.

 

Glad those days are over.......

 

So my general thinking is the distributor is binding or the oil pump is binding....

[Rsmach1 71]

Could be the oil pump, or something got by the p/u screen and lodged in the pump. If you have an oil pump primer I would definitely hook it up to a drill and see how it spins, if not I would get one.

[Brian Conway 264]

Could be the oil pump, or something got by the p/u screen and lodged in the pump. If you have an oil pump primer I would definitely hook it up to a drill and see how it spins, if not I would get one.

Good Idea.  1/4" socket on an extention will be good enough to let you know if it's rotating freely counter clockwise.  tape the socket to the ext. Brian

[Rsmach1 71]

Wow Brian, you could eat off that intake, it's cleaner than my dishes lol. I miss my old FE cars :-/

 

I would still use a primer and a drill, this will better simulate the pump at speed.

[Rsmach1 71]

I would also recommend you turn the engine over (2x) by hand and check the cam gear real good.

[1969_Mach1 333]

rwcstang, sorry had to chime in.  If the dist gear spins on the shaft, the gear and/or the shaft is bad.  It is a press fit requiring special tools or a hydraulic press to install.  Why the roll pin broke could be too much oil pressure or the gear to dist shaft fit was bad from the beginning, thus, only the roll pin was holding the gear in place.  High volume oil pumps in a 351W based motor are argued both good and bad.  Typically, high volume oil pumps are not needed on a small block stock or street performance motor.  But, the 351W has large main bearings.  Thus, the argument on both sides for a high volume oil pump.  Also, bearing clearances have a large affect on whether or not a high volume oil pump is needed.

[rwcstang 201]

Hey mach, thanks for the info, I was looking at some info about the summitracing ready to run billet distributor, and it says the gear is a slide in that is held by a pin http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/1185sum.pdf also the p/n https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850312-1,

here also my built sheet, only thing I do not have is cam or Head specs, I dont think that will help much, but i figure its worth a start.

 

 

 

 

 

sorry about taking pics like this, scanner was down at the time. 

[Rsmach1 71]

Interesting, if the gear does indeed simply slide off after the roll pin is removed that means the pin is carrying 100% of the load. Normally as stated by 1969_Mach1 they are pressed on, which helps carry at least some of the load. If you are using a HV oil pump, I'd probably go with a different distributor to help avoid this issue. In fact I'd probably avoid this dist all together.

 

Nice to see you back 1969_Mach1.

[rwcstang 201]

hrm, you may be right. Any suggestions to something similar to what I have, seems I only see MSD as the popular one, but are there any other brands out there? 

[Rsmach1 71]

Well it's been a while since I shopped for a dist (almost had to take a nitro pill when I saw the prices lol). No doubt MSD is the best, stay away from pro comp and proform, I have no experience with pertronix distributors. When I put my car back together I'll probably just use a Duraspark and a MSD box (yes old school).

 

Might be a good time to start a new thread to see what everyone is running and get some opinions.

 

Edit; Depending on how long you've had your's you might try calling Summit to see if they will take it back and give you credit towards an MSD. Tell them what happened, Never hurts to try.

[rwcstang 201]

had this dist. for 3-4 years, spoke with summit they only give it a 1 year warranty, so thats out of the question.. lol 

[Rsmach1 71]

Well, worth a try lol. So just be sure to check the pump, preferably with a primer, or if you're getting a new dist your old one (less the gear) and a drill.

[rwcstang 201]

thanks RS, Im going to vegas with some friends this weekend, but will check everything when I get back. will keep you guys posted. 

[Max Power 74]

I have had this happen twice. First time a piece of debris got in the oil pump and locked it up. Unfortunately, the pin didn't shear, the cam gear did. Most people don't know that the OE oil pickup screen has a big hole in it under the metal shroud. Always replace with a full screen pickup, as oil pump clearances are very tight on these motors.

 

Second time was after I converted to a roller cam, and tried one of those composite gears from Comp. While the pin I has was a little short for it, the hole in the gear that the pin went through elongated and eventually cracked, stalling the car. I just switched to a steel gear. After the AAA tow, of course.

 

Odds are your pump caused it. Might be cheap insurance just to drop the pan and get a standard pump to replace it.

 

As for a dizzy, I kinda don't trust the aftermarket. I have a stock spinner with a re-curve and Pertronix and an MSD box. It has worked for years.

[Rsmach1 71]

As for a dizzy, I kinda don't trust the aftermarket. I have a stock spinner with a re-curve and Pertronix and an MSD box. It has worked for years.

I'm with you Max Power, I've run the same setup on my Windsor for years with no issues. I've had an old Duraspark sitting in the garage for years as a backup, but never needed it.

I used to run Mallory dizzy's in my FE cars, they were pretty much bullet proof (at least for me), but they're no more.

After seeing what MSD wants I'll stick with my Fomoco parts.