Found a New Motor

[LiLMike 42]

I ran across a guy thinking of selling his engine. It's an 85 351w out of an E350 van. It has been stroked out to a 393, full roller and has only 2000 miles on it. I'm working on a deal but have a couple of questions. Will this motor mate up to my 69 Mach1 FMX tranny? He is running a C6 tranny and my FMX is all stock behind a 351w. This motor is pushing about 440 HP with 440 Ft lbs of torque. Also what torque converter would I need for this motor? If I keep my FMX I would probably go with 3:25 gears in the rear end. Is that too much for hwy cruising at 70 mph? I would hate to turn over 2500 RPM at 70 MPH. Another thing, is there anything I could do to help my FMX. I have heard people say there is not much you can do with an FMX except put a shift kit in it. What shift kit are they talking about? Also is there any other concerns I should be worried about?

 

Thanks

Mike

[RPM 1,190]

Yes the 351w and FMX bolt up. Thousands of them came together from Ford. The FMX is a tough trans, just heavier than a C4, pretty close to a C6 iirc, and no hop up kits available. You might be able to use your existing FMX converter depending on the cam in the 393.

 

I know next to nothing about C6's, but that's the first I've heard of a C6 matted to a 351w. A quick search says it can be done, but the C6 has to be from a small block Windsor.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I have seen Transgo shift kits available for the FMX trans at Summit Racing.  Transgo also lists a small hard parts kit to correct some issues, it looks like valve body parts.  Some time ago a member had a post in a thread that had a link to a supplier of parts for FMX transmissions.

[LiLMike 42]

I thought it would mate up ok. From what you guys are saying, I think the FMX will do just fine. His C6 is in van so not sure what bell housing he has but it makes no never mind since he is just selling the motor. I know the motor is well built He had it done at Campion Racing Engines here in Indiana. I guess I need to find out what cam he has in it and figure out what stall converter I need. Aer all stall speeds the same regardless o what transmission it is in?  I think he said he has dart heads on it so I wonder what headers to use? I know they are pricey but I would like to use the FPA long tube headers.

[Rsmach1 71]

+1 on the transgo shift kit, and for a torque converter http://m.summitracing.com/parts/hup-38-25 stay away from the Boss hog converters.

[BandBSTANGS 15]

X2 on boss hog converters. I had a b/h converter in my fmx and due to my mistake shot auminum thru the transmission. I pulled transmission sent the converter back to b/h to have it split and cleaned. They sent converter back and when bolting trans back on the motor the converter would come off of pump when bolting to flexplate. After some head scratching measured my stock converter vs boss hogg and they welded cases back together 3/4 inchs to short. After many phone calls and having to pay to ship converter back a 2nd time they agreed they had screwed the converter up and agreed to fix problem. Got converter back and it wouldn't pull the hat off of your head...I now have a fmx with b&m shift kit and Boss Hogg paper weight .

Car now has a built c-4 and converter and runs the way it should.

My advice is if you are going to stay with a 3 speed automatic put a c-4 in, other wise put in a AOD or 4r70w and get the overdrive.

My cleveland with c-4, 3:50 gear and 26 inch tyal tires runs approx 3200 at 70.

[RPM 1,190]

I do know Transgo used to make a kit, but as recent as a few months ago I could not find one. If anyone has a current link I'd surely appreciate it. 

 

If Mike already has a good FMX, why spend the extra bucks? With a 393 the car will have a traction problem, not a weight or power problem.

[barnett468 418]

.

well if it has the power numbers he claims, it will be a total pig off the line unless you use around 3.50 gears or numerically higher or around a 3500 rpm stall converter with your 3.25 gears.

[LiLMike 42]

Right now I have the stock gears in it. Not sure what they are but I think they are 3:00. The motor is tempting but if I don't spring for the AOD or 4r70w then I have to make it work with my FMX. So the consensus I I will have no issues on mating this engine up to what ever tranny I use. I just have to match the rear end up with what cam is in it and get a good stall converter.

[3pedal 95]

One more thing to ask is  what the vacuum reading is at idle...you will need at least 13-14 inches of vacuum to make the trans shift right and the PB's stop properly...too much duration is no good for automatics and PB   check the cam specs and post 

[Rsmach1 71]

I do know Transgo used to make a kit, but as recent as a few months ago I could not find one. If anyone has a current link I'd surely appreciate it.

 

If Mike already has a good FMX, why spend the extra bucks? With a 393 the car will have a traction problem, not a weight or power problem.

Here is the Transgo shift kit, http://m.summitracing.com/parts/trg-37-1

[RPM 1,190]

Thanks Rs! I went to the TransGo website which doesn't have a search function, and they don't list it, hmm. Should've just googled FMX shift kit. Gotta work on my search skills.

[LiLMike 42]

I'll check the cam specs next week when I talk with him. I forgot all about the vacuum. Thanks for the shift kit link.

[7TCatvert 24]

Nothing to lose by using the fox if it blows then use an aod or c4. I have a buddy who builds the c4 for applications for around 900. Remember if you change transmission then the drive shaft has to be reworked.

[LiLMike 42]

Nothing to lose by using the fox if it blows then use an aod or c4. I have a buddy who builds the c4 for applications for around 900. Remember if you change transmission then the drive shaft has to be reworked.

Thanks, I remember that after you mentioned it.

[MikeStang 247]

at 440 hp with 3.25s it wont be a Pig but it will for sure blow the tires off LOL.

I was running 3.25's at 1st and swapped to 3.73s and didn't see much of an increase honestly, but since Im traction limited it don't matter LOL

[LiLMike 42]

Finally got more information. I don't know the exact specs on the cam but it was built with the most aggressive cam they could go with and still have enough vacuum for the power brakes. This I do know for sure. I have talked to Mikestang and decided to go with the 4r70w with 3:73 gears. I now need a torque converter to match it. I also have an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb. He had a 680 cfm on it but he is keeping that. Not sure if I should re-jet the carb or go with a larger one. Any recommendations? I thought I could go with at least a 700 cfm. Also my PO has a 1" spacer under the carb, should I keep it or get rid of it? I barely have hood clearance with the spacer. Will the 85 block change this? Does the 85 block sit any different in a 69 Mach1?

[barnett468 418]

 

Finally got more information. I don't know the exact specs on the cam but it was built with the most aggressive cam they could go with and still have enough vacuum for the power brakes. This I do know for sure. I have talked to Mikestang and decided to go with the 4r70w with 3:73 gears. I now need a torque converter to match it. I also have an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb. He had a 680 cfm on it but he is keeping that. Not sure if I should re-jet the carb or go with a larger one. Any recommendations? I thought I could go with at least a 700 cfm. Also my PO has a 1" spacer under the carb, should I keep it or get rid of it? I barely have hood clearance with the spacer. Will the 85 block change this? Does the 85 block sit any different in a 69 Mach1?

  you just need to try it with and without the spacer . . we dont know what intake it has either but you need a 750 carb on it . . i would get an ss type quick fuel . . the converter s a guess . . if you want to roast the tires forever a 3000 stall should do otherwise i would consider around 2400

[1969_Mach1 333]

I use a Holley 700 CFM DP on my 351W.  I have tried a 750 CFM DP carb and 650 CFM DP carbs on it, both Holley.  The 700 CFM DP seems to be a good size for mine.  The cam in your motor might not be too aggressive if the power brakes still operates well.  I know ignition timing and other factors have some affect on idle vacuum.  But, in my motor, an X303 Ford Racing cam creates 12-13 inches of vacuum at 750 RPM.  It's a 4-sp car so that is not in drive like with an auto trans car.

 

The QFT carbs have nice features.  I just can't seem to get passed the fact they are built mostly with parts made in China.

[MikeStang 247]

750 carb will be just fine.

Depending on the intake height you might not be able to use a spacer.

I'm running a Vic Jr. and 870 carb on mine and had to get a shorter filter but it fits and the hood will close just fine..

I may have a lightly used 870 Vac secondary Holley for sale if I decide to go with an EFI Kit LOL

[1969_Mach1 333]

Don't forget, a 750 vacuum secondary is more forgiving on a smaller cubic inch motor than a 750 mechanical secondary carb.  It's not so good to oversize a mechanical secondary carb.  Also, if you select a carb that is larger than what your motor needs pay attention to the type of boosters it has.  An oversized carb with straight leg, truck type, or annular boosters has better drivability and throttle response than one with down leg boosters.   Just wanted to mention this since I have seen some carb sizes mentioned without further clarification. 

[LiLMike 42]

I will be using my intake manifold. It's the one my PO had on the car. It is an Edelbrock  but not sure which one. I will find out next trip to the shop. What is the purpose of a spacer? There is one on my car now. Going to go sometime this week to drive the van that the motor is in now. I will probably go with an Edelbrock carb, probably either a 700 or 750. I have seen this air valve secondary, what s that? How does it work?

[1969_Mach1 333]

One caution with an Edelbrock carb.  I have seen many of them not having the throttle linkage provisions for Ford's automatic transmission kick down linkage.  If you are using an older 3 speed auto trans that needs one it will be a problem.  Holley and QFT offer carbs setup to work with Ford's auto trans kick down linkage.  Just pay attention to what you are buying.

 

Different spacers produce different results:

 

1)  An open spacer increases the plenum volume thus improving top end power.

 

2)  A 4-hole spacer increases low end power by improving the signal strength to the carb venturies thus making the carb more responsive to throttle position changes at lower speeds.

 

3)  A 4-hole tapered to open spacer is supposed to provide a little improvement in both low speed and high speed performance.  These are mostly for single plane intake manifolds.  I have seen a few designed for dual plane intake manifolds.

 

NOTE:  If you decide to use a 4-hole tapered to open spacer, most of the phenolic plastic versions of these are NOT intended for street use.  The material is very thin in the taper regions on some so there is risk of it breaking off and falling into the motor.  Race motors are disassembled a lot so the thought is any issues on one of these would be discovered before failure.  AFR offers a Phenolic 4-hole tapered spacer for street use and there are a lot of billet aluminum types available safe for street use. 

[LiLMike 42]

ThanksMach1...Sounds like I want to use the regular4 hole spacer. More interested in low end torque. I have an Edelbrock 600 cfm on my351w now. When I get this 393 I'll go with the 750 cfm Edelbrock.  already have the linkage set up but I want o change over to the 4r70w so I'll need their TPS and not worry about the tranny kick down. I will be using my Edelbrock aluminum intake. Got to check next time I am at the shop to see what intake my PO installed. 

[LiLMike 42]

Called the shop today and found out that I have an Edelbrock Performer intake. I'll probably use that. Going in the morning to see the motor run and drive the van that it is in.