Rack & Pinion Swap

[Lil John SVT 27]

I've been researching for some time and trying to get some advice. My 69 coupe has power steering from the factory. But there's so much at in the steering til it can't be driven safely. There's ton of play. I tried to tighten the box and it's not helping at all. I checked underneath and it all seems tight when turned. I don't feel like dealing with trying to get the factory steering back to normal. I rather go with a rack and pinion and be done with it.

 

Should I go with a power rack and pinion or go with a manual? Where's a best place to order one? I know you get what you pay for, but I also know some pieces are overpriced by name. Not looking for the cheapest way out but not trying to build a show car either.

Thanks.

[Big Secz 26]

This should help get you started.

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/mump-1106-classic-mustang-rack-pinion-guide/

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/mump-0607-ford-mustang-rack-and-pinion/

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/mump-0901-vintage-mustang-rack-and-pinion-steering-install/

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/mufp-0603-total-control-rack-and-pinion-kit/

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/mump-0906-how-to-install-power-rack-and-pinion-steering/

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/mump-1101-install-mustang-rack-and-pinion-steering/

[juit 34]

Send your gearbox to chockostang it will be day and night change

[Rsanter 152]

I am not a fan of the R&P systems as they all have shortcomings to them.

You may want to look at using a system from borgeson or CPP.

I just put a CPP power steering box into my 69

 

Bob

[Mike65 476]

Bob,

Do you have a web site address or link for CPP?.

Mike.

[Big Secz 26]

I installed a Borgeson system in my Mustang and hated it. Others have had better results.

[Rsanter 152]

CPP

Classic performance products

 

Bob

[det0326 179]

I installed a Borgeson system in my Mustang and hated it. Others have had better results.

 

Big Secz I read your write up on this system and know that you had a return to center condition and have talked to you about it before. One question I forgot to ask you, did the steering seem easier to steer regardless of the other problems?

 

Dave

[Big Secz 26]

Big Secz I read your write up on this system and know that you had a return to center condition and have talked to you about it before. One question I forgot to ask you, did the steering seem easier to steer regardless of the other problems?

 

Dave

 

The steering was stiffer and was only slightly better than manual steering. It did not provide smooth easy steering at all.

 

And it wasn't just a return to center issue, the steering wheel wouldn't return at all period. Whatever direction you turned the wheel is just stayed that way. Borgeson says that you need to have 5 degrees positive caster, and I have yet to find anyone that has been able to get that much positive caster out of stock Mustang strut rods. I wasn't even able to get half of that with my stock strut rods.

 

Put it this way, for the money and hassle spent on the install, I would have rather just had my original steering box rebuilt.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Big Secz

[det0326 179]

The steering was stiffer and was only slightly better than manual steering. It did not provide smooth easy steering at all.

 

And it wasn't just a return to center issue, the steering wheel wouldn't return at all period. Whatever direction you turned the wheel is just stayed that way. Borgeson says that you need to have 5 degrees positive caster, and I have yet to find anyone that has been able to get that much positive caster out of stock Mustang strut rods. I wasn't even able to get half of that with my stock strut rods.

 

Put it this way, for the money and hassle spent on the install, I would have rather just had my original steering box rebuilt.

 

Thanks big Secz. Good to know.

[Glenn83 19]

I'm going to to be using a chocostang manual box with a roller idler arm from opentrack racing, I haven't got to the stage in my project of installing them as yet but I constantly read and hear good reports about both of these products.

[SA69mach 39]

+1 on chockostang. Good guy, easy to deal with and very knowledgeable about Mustang steering, brakes, and the complex stuff.

 

Rebuild what you have and you know it will all work together. I have had manual and with bigger tires it is a chore at low speed.

[Lil John SVT 27]

I'm just trying to get the car where I can drive it. Right now I have almost a half a turn on the steering wheel of play in the steering. I've tried to tighten the box up but it made no change. It's impossible to keep it on the road. And the more it sits the more I lose intrest in it. The reason I wanted to go with a rack and pinion is because of I get the steering box rebuilt and then there's another issue then that'll add up to the same or more than a r&p set up. And I don't know from personal experience, but I heard even with all new steering components on our cars there's still play and wandering in the steering. Just trying to do it once and be done with it.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Lil John SVT

[Big Secz 26]

I'm just trying to get the car where I can drive it. Right now I have almost a half a turn on the steering wheel of play in the steering. I've tried to tighten the box up but it made no change. It's impossible to keep it on the road. And the more it sits the more I lose intrest in it. The reason I wanted to go with a rack and pinion is because of I get the steering box rebuilt and then there's another issue then that'll add up to the same or more than a r&p set up. And I don't know from personal experience, but I heard even with all new steering components on our cars there's still play and wandering in the steering. Just trying to do it once and be done with it.

 

 

 

Here's the thing, you can replace and rebuild all of the stock components and it will be cheaper than R&P and come close to what a Borgeson kit will cost. The difference is you will save time with it all being direct bolt on with no additional modifications needed.

 

Even with all new/rebuilt components you will have a little play in the wheel, that's normal for stock steering, I believe the allowable is roughly 1/2" in either direction. You have to remember you are dealing with old steering technology and it will NOT be like driving a more modern car. If you want a more modern feel then you will need to pony up the extra money for an R&P setup but of course the trade off there is you lose turning radius and if you plan on putting headers on your car you have some limitations there as well. Anytime you make one modification over a stock setup it usually snowballs and results in other modifications or adjustments needing to be made.

 

Bottom line is you can ask 100 people their opinion and you will get 100 different answers. But you have to also set realistic expectations and that is you can only do so much to get these cars to drive and perform like modern cars.

[juit 34]

I installed the chockostang GB I dont regret it will do it again any day it was a bolt in & ready to drive, since I have a bumpsteer correction kit installed My turn radious is cut by half turn on each side to do a good turn, feals like a power gearbox on a manual GB, I recommend not to do the roller idler arm go with a good old moog problem solver, save your cash and put it somewere else in the car, in my case I bought a rear spoiler :)

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/67-68-69-70-MUSTANG-COUGAR-STEERING-BOX-REBUILT-5-TURN-STEERING-BOX-/231201095231?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d4a8be3f&vxp=mtr

Edited April 20, 2014 by juit

[Jimjific 23]

A rack system is the way to go. Worm gear gear boxes will always have a dead spot. They wear out at center since that is where most of the back and forth happens. Tightening may help in the dead spot but it will them be to tight at the other extremes of the the steering. True, I've lost a little steering radius but it is not an issue outside of parking lots. Even then it isn't that bad. Well worth the gain in steering performance. I always tell people, if steering boxes are so great, why did they stop using them? Also, most rack systems are reversible.

 

My opinion,

Jim

[etel64 10]

I installed a TCP Manual R&P. After driving the car so much, i have determined i should have gone with the power R&P. Folks suggested as long as i am keeping the small block and not too wide a tire. then the non power would be ok. Well, I show this car every Sat night and getting in and backing in is a PIA. I usually need to park in the vacant areas to make it easier. Yeah, the extra 1k would have been worth it.

[j69302 11]

The people who are mentioning that you lose turning radius, bumpsteer, etc etc are ones that are using one of the rack and pinion kits adapted from another car, and I have no doubt that those problems exist.

 

However, both TCP manual and power rack use the ORIGINAL ford steering geometry. Their centerlinks put the original inner and outer tie rods in the same place as the original system.

 

TCP designed their's from scratch for the very specific reason and retaining the original steering geometry.

 

I have had TCP power rack for several years, and it is tied with the 5 speed conversion as the best investment I have made in the car.

 

 

TCP is hands down the best designed and best quality rack out there. It is also the most expensive though.. I have been so pleased with it that I would do it again if I ever get a second mustang.

[det0326 179]

The people who are mentioning that you lose turning radius, bumpsteer, etc etc are ones that are using one of the rack and pinion kits adapted from another car, and I have no doubt that those problems exist.

 

However, both TCP manual and power rack use the ORIGINAL ford steering geometry. Their centerlinks put the original inner and outer tie rods in the same place as the original system.

 

TCP designed their's from scratch for the very specific reason and retaining the original steering geometry.

 

I have had TCP power rack for several years, and it is tied with the 5 speed conversion as the best investment I have made in the car.

 

 

TCP is hands down the best designed and best quality rack out there. It is also the most expensive though.. I have been so pleased with it that I would do it again if I ever get a second mustang.[/quot

 

Is your car stock other than the R&P or did you do other upgrades to your suspension too? Just wondering if it works OK with everything else stock

or would you have to do other upgrades to make it handle better.

Thanks Dave

[Lil John SVT 27]

Well now in confused. I was going to get a rebuilt steering box. Now I don't know. The car won't be a daily driver, maybe once or twice a month. But I don't want to fight keeping the car on my side of the road.

[juit 34]

Get the rebuilt bro call chockostang you wont regret it, put your cash other place, if you save to buy a r&p you could easy sell it on ebay as refurbished by chockostang its a win win

[buening 63]

If you have cash to burn or want the best steering possible, IMO go with the TCP rack. If you are on a budget or don't mind the old school feel, go with the rebuilt stock box and new control valve. Many people throw a new or rebuilt box on the car and still complain about sloppy steering. They often fail to look at the control valve, which was worn more than the steering box in both of my cars when I got them.

 

Have someone turn the wheel within the range of the slop and while they are doing that, you peek down (or up from underneath) at the steering box arm and control valve. If the box arm moves in this slop range and tires don't move then you have a worn control valve. If the box arm doesn't move at all and the wheel is rotating within the slop range, then you have a worn box.

[Lil John SVT 27]

Got you. I think I'm gonna chockostang and get a rebuilt box and control valve and go from there. Thanks for all the advice.

[j69302 11]

 

Is your car stock other than the R&P or did you do other upgrades to your suspension too? Just wondering if it works OK with everything else stock

or would you have to do other upgrades to make it handle better.

Thanks Dave

 

 

I had used it with and without stock suspension. It will bolt right in with stock suspension. Clears almost all full length headers, transmissions and bellhousings. The reason it does this is because it bolt in place of the original curved crossmember.

 

Since I installed the rack and pinion, I have installed a TKO600 and TCP coil over suspension.

[j69302 11]

Got you. I think I'm gonna chockostang and get a rebuilt box and control valve and go from there. Thanks for all the advice.

 

 

Not trying to throw a wrench in the works or spend your hard earned money, but I hope you have better luck doing this than I did. After having to replace this stuff more than once...I found out that spending more money up front on something better designed was money well spent vs throwing money at the same parts once a year.

 

I replaced everything. Then found after about a year I had to replace it again. I said F...that, and put TCP rack and pinion on. Had it since 2008, several thousands of miles. Still feels like new. Only made 1 backlash adjustment on it(very easy to do) after the initial break in. I drive it as much as possible, over 100 miles a week. Used to be a daily driver.

 

Same thing with the front suspension. Replaced everything and it only lasted a year. So I put TCP coil over setup as well and never looked back.

 

If you do decide to go with a rack and pinion, do you research. stay away from any of the racks that have the inner tie rods as part of the rack. These ones ALL have steering geometry issues.

 

As far as I remember there are only 2 systems that use the correct "center take off" design. TCP is one, and I believe Randalls Rack is the other. It takes about 3 minutes of comparison to find out that the TCP unit is far superior.

 

Having said that, there are some options available today that were not around, or were very new when I was in the market several years ago.

 

Anyways my point is, do you research on everything available to you. Dont get hung up on price. You will be much more disappointed with something less expensive that doesn't make you happy. All said, you dont need to spend 2500-3000 on a high end rack and pinion to enjoy your car. But it was money well spent on mine.