Dyno Day disappointment

[70mstang 11]

Hey all, so I've been driving my vert for about a year now. Had to rebuild the engine once due to #5 cylinder not getting enough oil and melting the piston back in April a year ago.

 

So after getting about 3k miles on her, I decided to see where I stood as far as actual HP .. My club had a dyno day so I threw her up on the rollers and lo and behold ,.... crappy HP .. 188 hp 268 ft/lbs torque .. umm .. yea .. I actually put that out there ..... my shame is overwhelming.

 

So wondering if anyone has experience with some of the top end kits like Eldebrock that say they can give 350 hp - 400 HP with new heads, cam, roller rockers etc. Would it help a 43 year old cast iron block or is it worth the $$?

[rwcstang 201]

I never used Edelbrocks top end kit, but I herd good things about them. i think those kits are crank hp/tq ratiings

 

whats ur transmission, rear end gears?

[maxum96 32]

What are you running? A stock 302? If so, I'd say your Dyno numbers are about dead on.

[MustangChuck 16]

As a comparison, my 95 GT's stock engine (5.0L EFI, roller cam) ran 192 hp, 239 ft-lbs back when it was healthy. Your numbers are pretty good (assuming it's a stock 302). Lots of extra torque.

 

As for the Edelbrock kits, I've read good things about them. But, I've also read that with some work, you can piece together a better combination. I don't have any recommendations, though. A lot of people like AFR or TFS heads as a starter.

 

Chuck

 

Chuck

[FrozenMonkey 12]

Those kits like to throw out big numbers but remember that 99.9% of the time they are showing CRANK ratings not power at the wheels. For the money, you really aren't getting much with an Edelbrock kit. With some proper shopping you can piece together a kit that will net you that kind of power to the wheels for nearly the same price.

[70mstang 11]

Thanks all! From the builders list:

 

Cast Iron 302 long block (I always thought it was a short block)

bored 4.020

cam 460 lift, 268 duration

eldebrock 600 cfm 4v

all new push rods, connecting rods, cam rods .. but not name brand.

World Class T5

rear diff is Ford 9" with 3.73 Limited Slip

[smackey05 10]

A short block is a block with just the pistons, crank, and rotating assembly installed.

 

A long block is a block with the heads installed on top of the short block.

 

Numbers are about right for a stock 302 as you have...

 

Thanks all! From the builders list:

 

Cast Iron 302 long block (I always thought it was a short block)

bored 4.020

cam 460 lift, 268 duration

eldebrock 600 cfm 4v

all new push rods, connecting rods, cam rods .. but not name brand.

World Class T5

rear diff is Ford 9" with 3.73 Limited Slip

[70mstang 11]

Oh! Thanks for the explanation :yes:

 

Still learning something new every day .. I was thinking there were differences in the block itself! LOL

 

The car is pretty quick in my opinion but seemed a heckuvalot faster in the 80s, so I was looking to see what I might do to improve on what I have.

[Pakrat 1,043]

I know how you feel but honestly aside from bragging rights I wouldn't put a lot of pressure on yourself about it, for an average cruiser and especially a vert like we have that you won't exactly be racing it off or on the street what difference does it really make? I think folks should put more stock in the ass of your pants o'meter and how it feels to you when you drive it then what it actually dyno's at. That and how it sounds can make a crusier seem like a bruiser even if it's not.

 

FWIW my 302 has the standard old school wake up upgrades of Holley 600cfm 4V, hotter cam, Weind Stealth Intake, 351W heads and long tube headers and that combo was pushing it to 325hp.

[MustangChuck 16]

Oh! Thanks for the explanation :yes:

 

Still learning something new every day .. I was thinking there were differences in the block itself! LOL

 

You might be thinking of the difference between a 302 block and a 351 block. The 302 is "shorter" than the 351.... :blink:

[sportsroof69 13]

Eh, dyno numbers don't mean much. If you want to upgrade, put a set of TW170s, an XE268, and a Weiand Stealth on, and it'll run better than the edelbrock kit. You'll need pushrods and a few other supporting items too.

[70mstang 11]

I figure the TW 170 are Twisted Wedge 170 heads, Weiand Stealth is the intake and can sorta go on my engine size, is the XE 268 the COMP Extreme Energy?

 

Sitting on Summit.com looking :)

[sportsroof69 13]

You got it :)

[Big Secz 26]

The nice thing about the complete top end kits is that you get everything that is designed to work with each other. Instead of mixing and matching parts, measuring push rods, correct return springs, etc. Get a complete top end kit and it takes the guess work out of it all.

[sportsroof69 13]

The nice thing about the complete top end kits is that you get everything that is designed to work with each other. Instead of mixing and matching parts, measuring push rods, correct return springs, etc. Get a complete top end kit and it takes the guess work out of it all.

 

You always have to measure for pushrods. There isn't a single person that can tell you what pushrod length will be without measuring it first, because there are too many variables. They'll sell springs with any cam.

[THE EVIL TW1N 12]

You always have to measure for pushrods. There isn't a single person that can tell you what pushrod length will be without measuring it first, because there are too many variables. They'll sell springs with any cam.

+1

 

The numbers aren't too bad, you also have to consider you are running a power robbing 9" rearend. When I had a 5.0, the edelbrock topend kits would put out 270-285 rwhp through a T-5 and 8.8. I would stay away from the Edelbrock kits unless you are feeling lazy about piecing together a better combo (which would cost roughly the same anyways). I'd recommend the TFS heads if you aren't going to change the pistons, I made 310rwhp with my off TFS headed combo on a stock shortblock. Not sure which block you have, but the 5.0's had reliability issues (splitting the blocks) running in the 350-400rwhp range.

[buening 63]

If it were me I'd be looking into upgrading the heads and exhaust and possibly a cam swap. I assume you have stock cast iron manifolds and not headers? Remember its an air pump, so you need something that allows more air in and out of the motor. This assumes you want more out of the motor.

 

I agree the dyno numbers are spot on for your current combo.

[70mstang 11]

Thanks all, Yes the heads are 43 year old stock cast iron & heavy as heck :death:

 

When I had the rebuild done they put in a mild cam .. 268/460 which seems about like what Sportsroof69 was saying.

 

After some of the input here I am thinking of AFR heads (165 or 185) and possibly swap out the intake. I was looking at the Weiand Stealth, but I like the polished intakes cause they are damn sexy lookin. The only polished Weiand has for a 302 is the Street Warrior .. anyone have experience with this one?

 

The intake I have is a brandless intake so no clue where or what it came off of, but it's purdy LOL. I'm running an eldebrock 1406 4v

[THE EVIL TW1N 12]

Thanks all, Yes the heads are 43 year old stock cast iron & heavy as heck :death:

 

When I had the rebuild done they put in a mild cam .. 268/460 which seems about like what Sportsroof69 was saying.

 

After some of the input here I am thinking of AFR heads (165 or 185) and possibly swap out the intake. I was looking at the Weiand Stealth, but I like the polished intakes cause they are damn sexy lookin. The only polished Weiand has for a 302 is the Street Warrior .. anyone have experience with this one?

 

The intake I have is a brandless intake so no clue where or what it came off of, but it's purdy LOL. I'm running an eldebrock 1406 4v

You'll have to measure the piston to valve clearance with whatever head you run. Are your pistons notched? I'm not sure you can run the 185's at all with a flat to piston (let alone a domed one). You can run the 165's, but IMO the TFS heads are better for less $$ to boot, but you can't run too radical of a cam either before you get into piston/valve clearance issues with those heads. On my old (93) stock bottom end 5.0, I ran an E303 with 1.7 rockers, which came out to like .529 lift / 221* duration at .05 (I forget the exact numbers). Looks like you have some homework to do.

[70mstang 11]

Thanks Evil Twin, I'll talk to one of the local speed shops and do some homework.

[sportsroof69 13]

You'll have to measure the piston to valve clearance with whatever head you run. Are your pistons notched? I'm not sure you can run the 185's at all with a flat to piston (let alone a domed one). You can run the 165's, but IMO the TFS heads are better for less $$ to boot, but you can't run too radical of a cam either before you get into piston/valve clearance issues with those heads. On my old (93) stock bottom end 5.0, I ran an E303 with 1.7 rockers, which came out to like .529 lift / 221* duration at .05 (I forget the exact numbers). Looks like you have some homework to do.

 

I'm a fan of the TFS heads as well. :yes:

 

 

And this :sleep:

 

[70mstang 11]

yea I love that vid .. sounds so badass! What's your build?

[sportsroof69 13]

Dang I just looked at which video I have up there and that's an old one. I need to update it. Lol

 

408W 10.2:1

TW185s

Victor Jr

Chris Straub/Bullet hyd roller