Borgeson Install for Beginners.....Like Me

[Big Secz 26]

I finally got to the alignment shop today. The most they were able to get is +3 degrees caster. They told me in order to get up to +5 degrees would be to get a different set of radius arms.

 

The steering is better than it was. The wheel returns farther but not completely back to center and the tracking has improved. I do wish it were a bit better.

[TexasEd 190]

good to hear

[Cupid 10]

Took mine for a few blocks. It did return to center, but I didn't do a complete road trip. I have to get it to an alignment shop and add a little more fluid before I can give you the full story. Bottom line is it functions well. Feels very tight and no play whatsoever! MONEY!

[70mstang 11]

Pulling this one to the top to see if anyone had any more info. I was thinking about the return to center issue and wondered if anyone had replaced their idler arm? Original idler arms were made very stiff so the steering would snap back to center. If they are worn out or aftermarket they don't have any "snap". Just a thought.

[70mstang 11]

Pulling this one to the top to see if anyone had any more info. I was thinking about the return to center issue and wondered if anyone had replaced their idler arm? Original idler arms were made very stiff so the steering would snap back to center. If they are worn out or aftermarket they don't have any "snap". Just a thought.

[Big Secz 26]

Pulling this one to the top to see if anyone had any more info. I was thinking about the return to center issue and wondered if anyone had replaced their idler arm? Original idler arms were made very stiff so the steering would snap back to center. If they are worn out or aftermarket they don't have any "snap". Just a thought.

 

 

I bumped into a guy that owns a local speed shop and talked to him about the steering issue. He said that a large part of the problem could be the conventional power steering fluid that I used. He said that conventional p/s fluids tend to get air bubbles which can be causing my bump steer issue. He suggested that I put in a high quality synthetic p/s fluid. So Saturday I plan on draining my p/s fluid and replacing it with Royal Purple. I hope to be able to get it on the road for a test drive, but I also have to install three digital gauges which will require me to remove the dash. With any luck I'll be able to get it all done Saturday and out of a test drive. Will keep everyone posted on how it works out.

[Big Secz 26]

Pulling this one to the top to see if anyone had any more info. I was thinking about the return to center issue and wondered if anyone had replaced their idler arm? Original idler arms were made very stiff so the steering would snap back to center. If they are worn out or aftermarket they don't have any "snap". Just a thought.

 

 

I bumped into a guy that owns a local speed shop and talked to him about the steering issue. He said that a large part of the problem could be the conventional power steering fluid that I used. He said that conventional p/s fluids tend to get air bubbles which can be causing my bump steer issue. He suggested that I put in a high quality synthetic p/s fluid. So Saturday I plan on draining my p/s fluid and replacing it with Royal Purple. I hope to be able to get it on the road for a test drive, but I also have to install three digital gauges which will require me to remove the dash. With any luck I'll be able to get it all done Saturday and out of a test drive. Will keep everyone posted on how it works out.

[Big Secz 26]

So, a week ago I swapped out the p/s fluid with Royal Purple's synthetic. I finally got around to driving her today. Over 120 mile round trip to Richmond, VA and back for a show. I am not happy at all. The steering wheel still does not return to center and the bump-steer is really bad. By the time I got home, no lie, the knuckles in my fingers hurt from gripping the steering wheel and fighting to keep the car in the center of the lane every time I hit a dip in the road.

 

Not sure what my next move will be. But at this point I'm thinking about yanking the Borgeson stuff out and putting in a rack.

[Big Secz 26]

Thinking I may try TCP's Bump Steer Kit next before deciding to switch to a rack.

[7tRedMach 10]

Hey Big, sounds like the trip was a real pain. Glad to hear you made it home safe. How was the show, how did you do? Sorry I didn't make it, but I had made plans with some friend to go to a show in Spotsylvania. Good luck with the steering, and keep us informed.

Paul

[1969 coupe 15]

Hey Big, was considering this conversion in the future, prob not going this direction after all the issues you seem to be having. Sorry it has been such a pain. Thanks for keeping us posted, you may want to let Borgeson know they are going to lose at least my business, prob others as well, if they don't do more to resolve your issues. It may help, maybe not, but I would at least give it a shot.

Edited October 2, 2011 by 1969 coupe

[Big Secz 26]

Hey Big, sounds like the trip was a real pain. Glad to hear you made it home safe. How was the show, how did you do? Sorry I didn't make it, but I had made plans with some friend to go to a show in Spotsylvania. Good luck with the steering, and keep us informed.

Paul

 

 

Other than that the show was great. My wife loves to go to that show because it's in the parking lot of a mall. I placed first in 64 1/2 - 73 Modified Occasionally Driven Class.

[Big Secz 26]

Hey Big, was consider this conversion in the future, prob not going this direction after all the issues you seem to be having. Sorry it has been such a pain. Thanks for keeping us posted, you may want to let Borgeson know they are going to lose at least my business, prob others as well, if they don't do more to resolve your issues. It may help, maybe not, but I would at least give it a shot.

 

 

Borgeson is aware of this thread, as they have informed me that they have read it after I brought the thread to their attention after the issues I have been having. They do not seem too concerned.

[erblo 10]

Just to wrap up my experience, I'm removing all this Borgeson stuff and going back to stock. I've contacted Borgeson and the vendor and they have refused a refund.

 

So, buyer beware, you might get a defective product that the company won't stand behind. This "weekend project" upgrade cost me well over $1000 down the drain and about 9 months off the road. I threw away some of my stock stuff, so I'm burning more money to get back to stock, but it's worth it to me. This is not driveable.

[buening 63]

Sad that Borgeson has done nothing to rectify this issue, as it is prevalent with all conversions I've read about! I was excited about the thought of having integral steering on these cars, but I guess it was not meant to be :(

[69gmachine 15]

Wow, i hate to see all that hard work and $$ down the drain :(

[Mike65 476]

So sorry :( they wont help you out & you lost all that money, but thanks for the heads up as I was considering that route for my 69 Coupe.

[Jimjific 23]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this site. I too was looking at upgrading my steering. I was on the fence between this system and a rack. It looks like I will save my pennies for the rack.

 

Thanks,

Jim

302 Fasback

[Big Secz 26]

I haven't checked this thread out in a while. All-in-all the Borgeson swap to me was a viable solution. My experience is that it was better than stock, but obviously not as good as a rack option. But then again a Borgeson swap is about half the price of a rack setup. The more I drive the car the better the steering gets, so there is obviously a break-in period that has to be taken into consideration.

 

My current issue is bump steer. I had thought that the Borgeson setup was causing my bump steer. That is not the case. My bump steer issues were prevalent prior to doing the Borgeson swap but wasn't as noticeable with the factory steering setup I had. A few simple wheel shakes revealed that I had worn tie rod ends which I have since replace. I haven't had the car back on the road since to test it out though.

[Jimjific 23]

I've been thinking about this issue. After talking with a co-worker who used to be involved with the racing scene, something just doesn't make sense. If you take a stock steering set-up and with stock alignment that already returns to center and all you do is replace the steering box, nothing should change. If it does, then you have to ask yourself, what changed?

 

The only things I can come up with either the Borgeson unit doesn't grab the center link in the exact same location or that the steering box is so tight or over powered that it can over ride the natural effect that the wheels want to straighten on their own.

 

Neither one of those cases make me want to get one.

 

My two cents,

Jim

[Big Secz 26]

I've been thinking about this issue. After talking with a co-worker who used to be involved with the racing scene, something just doesn't make sense. If you take a stock steering set-up and with stock alignment that already returns to center and all you do is replace the steering box, nothing should change. If it does, then you have to ask yourself, what changed?

 

The only things I can come up with either the Borgeson unit doesn't grab the center link in the exact same location or that the steering box is so tight or over powered that it can over ride the natural effect that the wheels want to straighten on their own.

 

Neither one of those cases make me want to get one.

 

My two cents,

Jim

 

Jim,

 

This swap is not simply swapping steering boxes. First off this swap eliminates the use of the power steering ram arm and replaces it with a manual drag link. The power assist in a Borgeson setup is provided internally in the steering box so therefore there is no external assist that you would received from the ram arm. So that alone will stiffen the steering without having the assist from the ram arm. Also for "best" results you need to replace the stock ps pump with a saginaw GM style pump.

 

So by eliminating the external assist form the ram arm you have to change the positive caster in order to get additional external assist. The only thing that stays the same from what I can tell is the gear ratio which is 16:1 with the Borgeson box and is the same as the stock power steering "quick ratio" boxes versus a 20:1 stock manual steering box.

[buening 63]

What condition is your idler arm and is it for a P/S or M/S car? Keep in mind a roller idler arm (or worn one) will negatively affect the steering's ability to return to center

[rangerdoc 22]

I was just about to ask about the idler arm when I saw this thread pop back up. Even some aftermarket idlers won't work. OEM is the suggested way to go.

[erblo 10]

This is an old post now, but I wanted to give another update. I had my original steering box rebuilt and installed. So now the car is set up as a manual steering car (temporarily). Although the steering effort is very high, it drives perfectly normal with good return to center, with all the same steering components as were with the Borgeson box. The ONLY change was the steering box. Pretty conclusive to me. Big thumbs down to Borgeson for a bad product and worse customer service, hopefully my experience discourages customers and costs them money (like it did me).

[grendi 16]

did anyone try to fix the problem with a "return to center" or "reflex" steering stabilizer?