Engine Sizes!!!!

[302Guy 10]

Hey everyone, i was wondering what size big block engines would fit in a 1969 Mustang? It has a 302 in it already in it, but i want to go bigger. So if you could help in telling me what sizes would fit and where i could get them, that would be awesome!

Thanks 302Guy

[jmlay 80]

Any FE based engine will fit with the correct Ford mounts, some early blocks had lees mounting holes in the block. A 429/460 based engine will fit with aftermarket parts, Boss 429 is a different story. Unless you really "need" a BB I would stay with a well built 351.

[maxum96 32]

As jmlay said, anything from a 390/427/428 FE to a 429/460 (excluding a Boss 429) will pretty much bolt in. With that said, I would go no larger than a 351 Windsor block. There are kits that easily stroke 351 Windsor engine up to 427 cubic inch. I believe there may even be some specialty kits that go even larger, but are rare and very expensive. I run a 393 ci 351W engine. My engine makes 550-600hp. I don't have several hundred extra pounds of weight on the front of my car that a big block would have.

Edited September 19, 2010 by maxum96

[302Guy 10]

Thanks for the advice, but which engine would be better...a 351 Windsor or 351 Cleveland or a 351 Modified?

Edited September 19, 2010 by 302Guy

[maxum96 32]

Back in the day (70's and 80's) before the advent of aluminum aftermarket heads, if you wanted a screaming Ford small block you ran a 351 Cleveland. Unfortunately 351C motors were only made from 1970-1974. 351C blocks are not dime a dozen like they used to be. Not as many speed parts for them as a 351 Windsor and the 351C speed parts are usually more expensive. There are only one or two different aftermarket heads for 351C's and they're very expensive. 351C was used in Pro Stock drag racing and NASCAR in the 70's. They used modified factory blocks and heads. In stock form a 351C will outperform a 351W.

 

351W's were made from 1969 up until the late 90's I believe. And they were put in everything from cars to trucks to Broncos. They share a lot of parts with 289/302's. Speed parts are plentiful. Stroker crank kits are all over the place to increase the displacement of 351W's, and they're reasonably priced. Numerous different aftermarket heads for 351W from mild performance cast iron ones to mild performance aluminum and wild performance aluminum castings out there.

 

351 and 400 Modified's were built in the mid 70's. These two engines are identical except for the stroke of the crank. They were designed to bolt in to a car or truck in the place of a 429/460. So they use 429/460 motor mounts and bellhousing pattern. I believe they use 351W crank journal sizes. The heads are identical to 351C 2V heads. The blocks look like a 351C block, but are 1" taller in the deck height. Because of this you can not use a 351C intake manifold on them. They were kind of the redheaded stepchild of modern Ford V8 engines. As such there are virtual no speed parts available for them. Also it would take a lot of work and modification to get one to work in a vintage Mustang. And there would be no advantage to using one.

 

With all this said, I love 351C's. I ran one in the 80's and loved it. I would kill for a nice 70 Mach 1 with a 351C and a 4 speed if I had the coin. But performance wise, 351W's are the motor to run nowadays. Plentifully supply of cranks, blocks, heads, and aftermarket parts out there.

 

So my recommendation is a 351W

Edited September 19, 2010 by maxum96

[jmlay 80]

Well stated.

[Max Power 74]

The engines that win the Jegs Engine Masters Challenge are frequently Cleveland based strokers with a lot of expensive aftermarket goodies on them, but for the street, I agree with the 351w assessment.

[maxum96 32]

The engines that win the Jegs Engine Masters Challenge are frequently Cleveland based strokers with a lot of expensive aftermarket goodies on them, but for the street, I agree with the 351w assessment.

 

 

I don't doubt it. A 351C head has huge ports and valves compared to a 351W. They're a canted valve design similar to a big block Chevy and a Ford 429/460. Even the stock heads really flow for the most part. Throw some good aftermarket parts in and you can make some serious power with a 351C. Problem is that you'd have to do some serious work to a 351C block to make it live. You'd probably need to sleeve all the cylinders and fill the block partially with a hard block (it's like cement that fills in the bottom of the water passages in the block) to make it live.

[yllwfstbck 10]

Thanks for the advice, but which engine would be better...a 351 Windsor or 351 Cleveland or a 351 Modified?

 

Everyone will say Windsor but I would say go Cleveland. I'm kinda parshel to them.

[yllwfstbck 10]

I don't doubt it. A 351C head has huge ports and valves compared to a 351W. They're a canted valve design similar to a big block Chevy and a Ford 429/460. Even the stock heads really flow for the most part. Throw some good aftermarket parts in and you can make some serious power with a 351C. Problem is that you'd have to do some serious work to a 351C block to make it live. You'd probably need to sleeve all the cylinders and fill the block partially with a hard block (it's like cement that fills in the bottom of the water passages in the block) to make it live.

 

I disagree.my Cleveland is a stock. 30 with only the oil restickters.mine makes low to mid 600 to the wheel depending onwhat pill is in it.its been togathet for 8 or more years and never a problem

[eldercaddy 10]

Anyone has a picture of a 1969 Mustang engine? A close picture of the engine that is not installed to the car. Thanks in advance for posting.

[Dro69 11]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=351w click on images:) Edited December 22, 2010 by Dro69

[Brasil 10]

here is a pic of my 69 351 W

 

Greetings Juergen

[yamahasrx700 14]

I just put a 460 in my 69 coupe. 500 lb of torque stock... mines not stock

http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=9076

[flight96 14]

Or you could go the way I did, I used a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. Commonly known as a Clevor. You can get aluminum Clevor heads easily. Now ya have the best of both worlds and something a little different. Edelbrock makes an intake for the application and it makes some serious power. If you use the 2V heads ya get unreal torque.

[panteramatt 1]

If youve got the coin, spring for a 598 frpp stroker! Its in the new issue of one of my mustang mags. You could make 1000hp easily!

[maxum96 32]

Here's my engine. It's a 351W stroked to 393ci. I haven't had it on a dyno yet, but horsepower is estimated to be around 600.

 

[KT 69 12]

Don't fear the Cleveland. A 73 CJ based 351-Cleveland, 4V quench 70 era heads, air gap 2V/4V manifold, Comp Cam 32-246-4.

Barnett High Preformance will build you a 4-bolt main 351-C long block in the $3,600 range top it off with manifold, covers, dizzy and carb and you got an a_s kicking screaming 351-C that pulls hard from 2K to 6K, slight loopy idle and good off idle torque. Run a 4 speed top loader with 3.25 to 3.73 gears or an AOD 4 speed auto with 2000 rpm stall convertor. Don't buy into the post muscle car generation urban 4V head doggy myth. The 4V quench heads can deliver you just have to know the right combo to make it happen. 70 era "m" code quench 4V heads with a 73 "Q" code based stock bottom end give you flat pistons for a 10:1 ish compression ratio. And Clevelands scream 3K rpm like no other....total rush!!!! The Cleveland is a true "muscle car motor".

 

 

 

Advice from an "old school head".

[Trav_450R 10]

Just kinda curious since were on the Clevland subject... The Boss 302 was just a 4 bolt main 302 block with Clevland heads and intake right? (im prob missing a few minor things) Well, I'm looking to take the other 302 I've got sitting in the corner of the shop, and build another 331 for when I buy my own 69 coupe (mom and dad hate that I play with theirs all the time :D) And I've been pondering about either putting 351W aluminum heads on (or would aluminum 302 heads be better?) or 351C aluminum heads... Im going to be looking to be in the low 11's range with some massive torque, enough to launch like a big block and bring them front wheels off the ground with a 5 speed. But when I read up on the history of the Boss 302, I've read it was more of a circle track engine, and that the 351C heads were simply too big for that small of a engine... I know you can't believe everything you read but I've never built one before. And the 331 Me and pappy built just has the early 64cc cast iron 289 heads. Would it be better to go with a 351W block with 351c heads? (sorry for the long shpeal)

[LSG 15]

302Guy, you can fit almost anything you want in there. The 385 Lima series engine will fit with aftermarket mounts. The 385 series includes the 429 & the 460. Both of these can be stroked out to 550 inches if your wallet allows. What did you plan to spend, and what are you going to do with the car when you have it finished ? If you put that much engine into your car, you'll need lots of other upgrades to deal with all of the power. You can make plenty of power with any of the Ford V-8s. You can even keep the 302 if you like. Don't let anyone tell you, and I'm refering to Maxum here, that the 351M or 400 doesn't have any performance parts available. The taller block leaves more room for lots of stroke and you can use the large port heads if you want, and the 351C manifolds will all fit with spacers. It really isn't a problem.And the Cleveland blocks and M blocks are plenty sturdy. Each of the Ford V8s has their unique needs when building power. As long as you find someone who understands the series you're building, you'll be fine. That said, the 351W is probably the easiest place to start. LOTS of stuff available, reasonable prices, and it will fit the trans and engine mounts you already have. LSG

[69RavenConv 286]

But when I read up on the history of the Boss 302, I've read it was more of a circle track engine, and that the 351C heads were simply too big for that small of a engine...

Trav, I'm no expert by any means, but I don't think the heads were too big. It's just that big valves make power at higher rpms, which is great for a race car spinning 4 or 5 grand. But they sacrifice some performance at lower rpms, like on a street machine where you're under 3 grand most of the time.

 

I'm oversimplifying, of course, and the engine-building experts here could explain it a lot better than me, but it really comes down to where you want your power and performance to live. There are many fast cars sporting Cleveland heads on the road.

Edited December 31, 2010 by 69RavenConv