New Headlights Setup?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Thanks Moodster, I would really appreciate a look at your beam pattern. And yes his answers are imprecise and vague, but I have the advantage of being an Electrical Engineer, and we are VERY anal about testing. I'm not sure of Pete's background. What concerns me most is stray light shining up that would reflect off fog or rain and cause unsafe driving conditions. I fired off this reply to his email:

Pete,

Your third gen video is of 7" beams is it not, and the wall is 2-3 feet away? A typical method to adjust headlights is: Park your vehicle 25 feet from a wall, and place a piece of tape horizontally 4 feet high across the wall in front of your vehicle. Turn on the low beams. Adjust the headlights until they shine on the tape. I think the whole forum would be skeptical of something that didn't show that pattern. We're car guys, and that's how its done. To prove the value of your product you really need to perform an industry standard test with 5.75" beams, and show the pattern on low and high. Can you do that please?

Your description of the amp draw is 2 amps with low and high together, at 12.1 volts. So each of the low and high LEDs are 1 amp? By the way, the alternator will no doubt be charging and the voltage is more likely to be around 14v. Using our stock harness and kick switch, two filaments are never on at the same time in one OEM PAR46 4002 outside light, and the Par46 4001 inside light only has one filament which is high. We have a total of 6 filaments, two lows and 4 highs. If my assumption that each LED draws 1 amp is correct, then only the outside beams are on in low, and this would give us 2 amps total, while 4 are on in high giving us 4 amps? Would you verify this please? This is of course much better than filament bulbs that give us totals of 7.82 amps in low and 11.72 amps on high.

Thanks and we await your reply

[Mach1 Driver 560]

The correct way to do this is called photometry, which measures the light in different areas of the pattern from 25' and applies a weighted function to give the perceived brightness to the human eye. This is Pete's reply to the email I sent him above. Its a step in the right direction but won't conclusively tell you how much stray light is going up and could cause unsafe conditions in fog or rain. The fact that they don't seem to have ever done simple basic testing does not bode well:

Thanks for the input when our video guys get a chance they will put some videos up that are more detailed will all the numbers for the 5 3/4.  The video is indeed for a 7 inch not a 5 ¾ inch.  Sorry for the confusion I was in a rush and they look so much alike on the videos.

Please subscribe to our YouTube channel and you will get notified automatically when the new videos are up.  They will do some current measurements during the video and complete an install on a car.

Best regards, Pete

 

 

[Raven R code 281]

Any updates to these headlights? Could we possibly see a picture of what sticks out from the rear of the inboard lights? I know the heat sink is huge. Any pastes to the light pattern?

 

thanks,

Dave

[Mach1 Driver 560]

8 hours ago, Raven R code said:

Any updates to these headlights? Could we possibly see a picture of what sticks out from the rear of the inboard lights? I know the heat sink is huge. Any pastes to the light pattern?

 

thanks,

Dave

There is nothing new on their website and I didn't see anything new on YouTube (where they said they would put it)- but I could have missed it. I'd love to see photometry (I don't expect it), or even a light pattern from one of our guys.

[Raven R code 281]

Hoping for more info on this. I need a headlight solution soon.the only thing I'm concerned about is the heat sink poking out the back of the headlight bucket (anyone have pictures of this aspect?). 

[JD08 42]

Is there any logic to 4 5.75 inch lenses and bulbs costing $299 and 2 7 inch lenses and bulbs costing $279?

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Only the 69s have the 5.75 bulbs, so I guess it's a numbers thing- they make more 7 inch.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

I found an interesting LED headlight and wonder if anyone has tried these: Vintage Car LEDs. They don't show photometry but do show beam patterns on hi and low at 25' and 2.5' above the ground. They have 3 models of 5.75" and 2 of them have very nice low beam patterns that show very little scatter above the low beam cutoff line. FAQs on their site say this:

Are these headlights DOT approved?

These E-code spec headlights exceed all European and Canadian standards for street use, and are widely considered superior to U.S. spec headlights. Unfortunately the U.S. DOT never adopted the European standard (nor did they set their own), leaving a hole in the regulations. As a result, all H4’s (even E-code ones) must be designated as “for offroad use only” if sold in the U.S. Compliance with local laws is the buyer’s responsibility.

Their down side is cost, but they are the only site that I've seen that shows a beam pattern from the appropriate distance. If you want to read a good article about how to adjust the headlights go to:  www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a257/1347221

[moodster 55]

The Mustang Project LED Headlights discussed earlier feature the same Hella H4 Lens but with 5000 Lumen CREE bulbs.  

david

[Mach1 Driver 560]

6 hours ago, moodster said:

The Mustang Project LED Headlights discussed earlier feature the same Hella H4 Lens but with 5000 Lumen CREE bulbs.  

david

Thanks, I'll have to take a look at that. The Mustang Project showed a pattern that was hand held and 3 feet away from the wall, with no mention of the E-code spec. Vintage Car shows a pattern from the normal aiming point of 25' and because its mounted (to a car presumably) the low beam cutoff is parallel to the ground you can see that there is no scatter above the cutoff. At least Vintage Car gives me some hope that the silly things work for the exorbitant price. 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

On 7/18/2017 at 9:12 AM, moodster said:

The Mustang Project LED Headlights discussed earlier feature the same Hella H4 Lens but with 5000 Lumen CREE bulbs.  

david

If you look at the beam pattern for the Mustang Project lights, they don't have a distinct low beam cutoff. In fact it looks like they may have it upside down when looking at low and high. Compare them to Vintage Car LEDs. And Mustang Project isn't showing you a pattern 25' from the wall. They tout the Cree LED. OK, is that just marketing or is that the very best chip to use- I don't know. They are in their 4th generation of heat sink design, so obviously they had trouble getting the heat away from the LEDs so they would survive. They have a limited lifetime warranty now so maybe that design aspect is pretty good.

Vintage Car LEDs  have very nice beam patterns on the 4000 and 5000 models and are from 25'. The 5000 can use glass filters that slip over the LEDs to go from 6000k white to 2500k yellow or 8000k blue. They are rated for 25,000 to 30,000 hours which is every night all night long for 8 years.

I definitely like the Vintage Car 4000 the best for its beam pattern but have no idea how well it fits our cars or its life span.

[Raven R code 281]

Has anyone bought any of the headlights mentioned??

[RPM 1,190]

On 4/19/2017 at 2:59 PM, Mach1 Driver said:

Could you do us a favor and take a picture of the light pattern on the garage door or something if its convenient? Thanks

Moodster I know this has already been asked a few times, but I think it's pretty important to have done so that Mach 1 Driver can do his magic reading the headlight beam. Pretty please! Thanks in advance.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

 

39 minutes ago, RPM said:

Moodster I know this has already been asked a few times, but I think it's pretty important to have done so that Mach 1 Driver can do his magic reading the headlight beam. Pretty please! Thanks in advance.

Eenie meenie chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak!

No magic, here's an example; Look at Vintage Car LEDs VC3500 low beam pattern. See the halo above the blue line of tape on the wall? That scattering of light will reflect back in rain or snow causing bedazzling. Now look at their VC4000 low beam pattern- there is nothing above the blue tape on the wall. Unless it was Photoshoped that's a damn good headlight.

Now, when we last saw our heroes, Rocky and Bullwinkle were about to rescue...

[RPM 1,190]

Thanks. You vely wise.

Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outta my hat...

[moodster 55]

On 7/25/2017 at 5:45 PM, RPM said:

Moodster I know this has already been asked a few times, but I think it's pretty important to have done so that Mach 1 Driver can do his magic reading the headlight beam. Pretty please! Thanks in advance.

So here's my problem - I can't take a picture of the garage door 25 feet away because my driveway isn't that long.  The best I can do is half that distance.  I essentially took the instructions for lining up the headlights and modified them to be half of what they suggested.  I'm happy with the headlights however I'm willing to help others out - what can I do outside of locating a garage that has a long level driveway?  What pictures would you like to see?  

david

[Mach1 Driver 560]

Can you do it off the back wall of the garage- maybe hang a sheet up or something if stuff covers the back wall?

I'd like to see low beams and high beams at 25' (so the door would need to be open). If you can do it without too much trouble, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it. Of course the garage could be full of stuff or the driveway sloped or any number of reasons could make it impractical.

[moodster 55]

The driveway is definitely sloped... if it didn't slope away from the door, I'd have water running into my garage.  I'll see if I can hang a sheet or something against the backwall and take some pictures.  Give me some time, I'm travelling the next few weeks.

 

david

[RPM 1,190]

If you have a commercial area nearby a building wall or brick wall would work.

[Raven R code 281]

Updates? 

[69ShelbyGT350H 61]

I hope this is not all about upgrading to LED's as I would like to ask if anyone has any comments about upgrading from the standard factory type incandescent(Tungsten?) lamps to the Scott Drake Halogen lamps? I bought the Scott Drake lamps for two reasons. #1 is the lamps that were on the car are marked as General Electric with the GE logo on the bottom, and the Scott Drake have the Ford Logo cast into the inside center of the lens. #2 I have read somewhere on the WEB that the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts than the incandescent lamps, so the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts to generate the same light. But I now look at the back of the Scott Drake Halogen have stamped on the back 12v 50/55w. So do they produce more light at 50/55w or are they the equivalent of 50/55w? If anyone has tried these Scott Drake lamps, how is the light pattern? My results may differ as I have the 7" version.

[Mach1 Driver 560]

2 hours ago, Raven R code said:

Updates? 

Not much to report on my end. I've had multiple email exchanges with Vintage Car LEDs. I requested drawings of the headlight so I could see if it fit. I have a 69 with 5.75" headlights, and their headlight selector pull-down menu does not list the 69. I scaled-up the drawing he provided on the printer and it wouldn't fit the bucket. I communicated that to Vintage and, he said he was sorry but he just threw together a drawing that wasn't to scale, and oh guess what, it was for the 7". So he sent me another not-to-scale drawing of the 5.75". I told him the information was useless and asked what he thought I should do? He said I could return anything I bought if it didn't fit, for only the shipping charge. At that point I decided they were too flakey to do business with. Too bad, the VC4000 looks like it has a good pattern: if in fact they are actually showing a 5.75" headlight in their advertisement, and it hasn't been PhotoShoped.

[Raven R code 281]

1 hour ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

I hope this is not all about upgrading to LED's as I would like to ask if anyone has any comments about upgrading from the standard factory type incandescent(Tungsten?) lamps to the Scott Drake Halogen lamps? I bought the Scott Drake lamps for two reasons. #1 is the lamps that were on the car are marked as General Electric with the GE logo on the bottom, and the Scott Drake have the Ford Logo cast into the inside center of the lens. #2 I have read somewhere on the WEB that the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts than the incandescent lamps, so the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts to generate the same light. But I now look at the back of the Scott Drake Halogen have stamped on the back 12v 50/55w. So do they produce more light at 50/55w or are they the equivalent of 50/55w? If anyone has tried these Scott Drake lamps, how is the light pattern? My results may differ as I have the 7" version.

I burned out my wiring switching to the Halogens years ago. I have all new wiring and don't want to deal with wiring issues so that is why I'm looking at LED. With all the detail going back into my car, I am willing to forego the fomoco script in favor of less hassle and safety. 

[Mach1 Driver 560]

1 hour ago, 69ShelbyGT350H said:

I hope this is not all about upgrading to LED's as I would like to ask if anyone has any comments about upgrading from the standard factory type incandescent(Tungsten?) lamps to the Scott Drake Halogen lamps? I bought the Scott Drake lamps for two reasons. #1 is the lamps that were on the car are marked as General Electric with the GE logo on the bottom, and the Scott Drake have the Ford Logo cast into the inside center of the lens. #2 I have read somewhere on the WEB that the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts than the incandescent lamps, so the Halogen lamps were to draw less watts to generate the same light. But I now look at the back of the Scott Drake Halogen have stamped on the back 12v 50/55w. So do they produce more light at 50/55w or are they the equivalent of 50/55w? If anyone has tried these Scott Drake lamps, how is the light pattern? My results may differ as I have the 7" version.

This was about LEDs but no need to limit it to that. A halogen light will put out more light per watt (and its whiter light), but since they also increased the wattage to further increase the light output, it will take more amps to run the light. Its becoming difficult to find the specs for the old incandescent bulbs so I can't tell you how much more it is, but it is MORE.

The specs list them at 12v, but that is with the engine off. As soon as you start the car the regulator is going to kick the alternator on and you will be running around 14v. That increases the current too. Using your specs, at 14v it would pull 4.82A on low and 5.31A on high, each. Since you only have two 7" headlights that's 10.26A on high, whereas the standard four 5.75" headlights pull 30.008A. The halogen lights therefore shouldn't stress any of the circuit's components.

While I haven't seen the light patterns, I know that the 7" lights do not have the problems associated with the smaller format 5.75" lights.

[Raven R code 281]

48 minutes ago, Mach1 Driver said:

Not much to report on my end. I've had multiple email exchanges with Vintage Car LEDs. I requested drawings of the headlight so I could see if it fit. I have a 69 with 5.75" headlights, and their headlight selector pull-down menu does not list the 69. I scaled-up the drawing he provided on the printer and it wouldn't fit the bucket. I communicated that to Vintage and, he said he was sorry but he just threw together a drawing that wasn't to scale, and oh guess what, it was for the 7". So he sent me another not-to-scale drawing of the 5.75". I told him the information was useless and asked what he thought I should do? He said I could return anything I bought if it didn't fit, for only the shipping charge. At that point I decided they were too flakey to do business with. Too bad, the VC4000 looks like it has a good pattern: if in fact they are actually showing a 5.75" headlight in their advertisement, and it hasn't been PhotoShoped.

Too bad the people at Vintage are not fourthcoming with info.... At this point, the MustangMarket headlights look good for the price. Anymore feedback from the guys at MustangMarket?

I would even entertain headlights with Halos built in as long as the look like BMW and you cant see each individual LED that makes up the halo (I think those look cheap).