67 Dataplate Enigma

[Guillaume69 150]

Hi guys,

 

Ok, not a 69, I know. But this one is interesting, and I am sure you'll enjoy the challenge. It has been discussed on US Mustang forums in the past. The car is in France now.

 

Here's a 67 with a really funky Dataplate. The VIN is not 67 correct (no X 390 engines in 67). Car is actually equipped with what seems to be an authentic 289.

 

Marti seems clueless...

 

What is your guess? Any idea? Stamping error on the assembly line?

 

G

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

I have a 69 with an R code 428 ram air ,it is stamped in the fender aprons and the stainless dash tag as an R code .However ,the pink slip has a  F for the engine code 302 .Now it has the big block towers and it had a matching number motor and trans 428 of course .It also has the staggered shock boxing under the rear seat .I believe it is a miss print on the pink .A buddy had a 64 1/2 with a d code 289 ,everything was stamped as a D code except the door tag that matched in the numbers but was miss stamped in the engine code ,so it did happen .

 

My car is also a San Jose car ,and so was my buddy's car .

Edited October 17, 2016 by Ridge Runner

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

What does a Marti report show the car should have ,i am wondering how many Ford documents are wrong .these cars were kicked out by the hundreds a day so they probably made a lot of mistakes .

[Midlife 814]

Guillaume: what do the fender aprons say is the VIN?  The stamped dataplate is not the official source for the VIN, but the fender aprons are.

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

That is true ,the data plate ifs for warranty purposes only and says so right at the bottom .The lady at DMV had a fit when i handed her my data plate and told me i could be arrested HAHA! I asked her what does NOT FOR TITLE OR REGISTRATION PURPOSES mean ? And pointed it out to her on the tag where it is printed right on the top HAHA!

I have seen a couple of tags miss stamped before .

[Guillaume69 150]

Well, the thing is the VIN stamped on the fender aprons matche the Dataplate. With the mysterious X. The stars on both sides of the VIN are missing though. Could that mean something?

 

Mistamped VIN is what comes to mind, of course. But who would use an X in lieu of a C or an A, when X coded engines appeared only for model year 1968? Could it be that they started assembling 68s with a few late production 67s still on the assembly line? #231864 seems like a fairly late production number to me.

 

G

[Midlife 814]

No stars on fender VIN is a big red flag.  BIG!  This is probably a stolen car that has been re-stamped.

[Guillaume69 150]

Roger that Randy... Thanks.

 

G

[69RavenConv 286]

No such thing as a "4" transmission, either, AFAIK.

 

The DSO is San Jose, so there's a possibility it was a special order for a Ford executive at the San Jose plant.

 

Fraud seems more likely, as Randy pointed out.

 

I don't think a plate with 2 obvious errors would make it through QA inspection but who knows?

[Guillaume69 150]

Wouldn't a special order have a specific DSO code?

[69RavenConv 286]

Wouldn't a special order have a specific DSO code?

 

Yes, probably. Just a wild guess on my part.

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

A Ford Rep. car would have a different DSO   ,that code -72 shows as San Jose though .The tag does look kind of new ,a bit to clean for a 67 tag ,unless it is a completely un restored original car .I would see if any other apron vin numbers can be found ,you would have to unbolt the top of the fenders and pull them back.Even a special order car would have the stars at the front and end of the vin . The 4 for the transmission is also very wrong .

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

Look up under the aprons ,under where the vin is stamped .Has the numbers been cut out and welded back in .does it look like the aprons have been replaced at anytime ?

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

I have seen a 68 with an X code ,that car could be late enough in the 67 year  to have a 2 V 390 .There is another way to check ,one you may not like .An un restored car will have the vin in grease pencil at the side of the cowl under the fender ,problem is ,you have to paint strip the side of the cowl very carefully ,wipe the paint stripper and paint off with a rag and the numbers will appear very lightly as the grease pen was on the bare metal and etched the number in .It never fails to show up if it has not been blasted or srtiped before .If the grease pencil matches the vin on the apron you have an original ,no mater how odd it is .

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

One more thing to help identify a 390 car ,at least a San Jose car ,the shock tower support down at the motor will have three welds from the factory on each side of the bracket  .This if my 67 GT 390 ,the welds are hard to make out because i seam sealed the bracket but it has 3 welds on both sides of the bracket on both towers and is this way on all the 67 390 cars .

 

[Midlife 814]

I was at a Pensacola FL MCA show several years ago, and someone brought a gorgeous black 66 that had been hopped up quite a bit.  It had even appeared in a magazine a few months before, so everyone was surrounding the car.  I took a look at the fender VIN and it was stamped "X" for engine size, which didn't exist in 1966.  The stamping was a bit off as well.  I asked the owner about the X engine code and she immediately went silent and said no more, probably thinking I was from the FL DMV or something.  The owner knew exactly what I was asking about...had to know.  That car is unsaleable IMHO.

[MikeStang 247]

When I have mine sand blasted you could see the grease pencil markings plane as day, it was cool...The guy blasting it said WTF is that...I explained to him what it was and he said he could blast it off but it would take a lil more blasting...I said nope its perfect, then covered it back up haha...

That's how they found one of the worlds fair mustangs when they were stripping it down they blasted the front and there it was don't recall if it was #1 or 2 but it said worlds fair bla bla bla

[Vicfreg 773]

What you may have is an early production 390 2 barrel with a C-6 transmission.  Even though the  "X"  for the engine, and the "4" for the transmission don't line up with the "accepted" standards for 1967, you may have a pretty rare car, if your door data plate is actually correct.  

 

in particular, with the high production number, and the late build date, it could have been some kind of special order for the San Jose DSO?  

 

The other reason why this is plausible, is that the 2-V version of the 390 met the California emissions standards without the addition of the smog components.   So, perhaps, someone ordered this in late 1967 to avoid the factory smog equipment that came on the "S" code, going into the 1968 model year?

 

The engine that is in the car is just not correct for your car, in my opinion..  The date code on the engine tag is "L", which is November, 1967.   The date code on the car data plate is "20U", which is July, 1967.  

 

The "236-A" on the engine tag indicates it is a 289 - 2 barrel.   You can also check the engine assembly date code, which is stamped in the block deck just below the distributor (drivers side, by the water pump) to see if it is close (within a month or so) to the November, 1967 date on the engine tag.   The engine assembly date should be something like "7L24" (November 24, 1967) if it were to match the engine tag.  But, either way, the engine dates probably don't match the car production date.  If the engine assembly date is actually close to July, then you have a real mystery going here.

 

 

So, my recommendation to help solve the mystery:

 

1.  Check to see what kind of transmission is in the car (C-6?)  If so, it could be a big block car.  There are id tags on the C-6 that you can use to identify the "vintage", but I don't want to go into that now....too much information...!

2.  Look on the engine to see if the VIN # is stamped on it.  Starting in 1967, the VIN numbers were supposed to be stamped on the engine block.  But, not always true, as is the case with most mass produced cars.  If there is a VIN stamped into the engine, it will be at the pad at the top of the engine block, behind the intake, where it meets the bellhousing.  Will be interesting to see what, if any VIN is stamped into the engine block.  The stamping will normally be something like: 7Fxxxxxx
 

If the VIN stamped into your engine block matches your car, well then, congratulations...you have a really unusual car with the "X" code.  If there is another VIN there, then, it is a transplant engine, which is what I suspect.

 

If it does not match, then you are still in the hunt for the truth.  

 

If the car has a C-6, I would contact the MCA head judge for 1967, as you may have a real "X" code 390 car, which would be cool

 

I am pretty sure there used to be an "X" code registry for 1968s.   Not sure if that is still active.  I remember this, as I had a "S" code 1968.

 

Anyway, sorry for the rambling reply.  I would be very interested to see what you find!

 

Good luck!

 

Vic

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

When I have mine sand blasted you could see the grease pencil markings plane as day, it was cool...The guy blasting it said WTF is that...I explained to him what it was and he said he could blast it off but it would take a lil more blasting...I said nope its perfect, then covered it back up haha...

That's how they found one of the worlds fair mustangs when they were stripping it down they blasted the front and there it was don't recall if it was #1 or 2 but it said worlds fair bla bla bla

I have seen little messages someone at Ford left in grease pencil ,a guys name and a short dirty poem ...here i sit all broken hearted..... HAHA ,it was all painted over until i used paint stripper and it showed up .

[Ridge Runner 1,113]

If the outer aprons have not been painted over look for a code on the out side of the battery apron .I have seen a big X on a 68 X code and my S code has a big S there .It is in white grease pen if it is there .

[Vicfreg 773]

Oh, the other big block clue might be if you have a 8" or 9" rearend.   If you can find the id tag off of the rear differential, then we can get that "decoded" for you.

[Guillaume69 150]

Thanks guys for all your help with this. I'll pass all this good info on to the owner. I do have the Marti book with all decoding info for tags and all.

 

We do not really trust the tag on the intake, as an intake can easily be swapped. The car assembly date showing on the Dataplate might be "iffy" as well. Does this Dataplate (shape and scripts) look correct for a 67? Not sure...

 

Still waiting for engine block casting numbers.

Will keep you posted.

 

G

[JeffTepper 4]

General comments:

 

The "X" engine code was also used in 1966 and prior for the 352 V8 in full size Fords.

 

The Smart/Haskell "Mustang Production Guide" does not include this particular sequential VIN but does list a couple of others that are numerically close and contain scheduled build dates of 12U.

 

Data plates have been known to be mis-stamped from time to time.  

 

To illustrate that point, I had a project a few years ago that was a '67 deluxe interior coupe (6A per Marti Report) but the data tag listed it as a standard interior (2A).  The car was represented as a one owner car and purchased used in 1969 off of a Ford lot in Monrovia, CA and is to this day still owned by the same owner.  The interior had never been out of the car during those 43 years but was in need of freshening as part of my project scope.  The data tag confusion resulted in most, but not all of the deluxe interior components being installed either on the assembly line or in the QA area at at the end of the line.  Of note were the door mounted courtesy lights which were not installed under the ribbed aluminum lower door grills.  The door light wiring harnesses were installed in the doors on the assembly line but never connected as there were no lights to connect to.  As part of my project, I disassembled the interior.  After removing the lower door grill on the driver's door, I found the rectangular cut out for the courtesy light was marked with an awl along with the free hand "cut out" instruction which was not followed.  The door shells were not stamped for the square white plastic mounting inserts for the door grill.  Someone, presumably in QA drilled for the mounting screws and attached the grills without cutting the light opening or installing the lights under the grills.  .Also, I found a complete set of the hardware (plastic mounting inserts and screws)  for attaching the aluminum lower door grills was sitting loose under the original carpet.  The other oversight was the lack of stainless trim around the rubber pedal pads.  My subsequent inventory confirmed that all other deluxe interior pieces were intact as well as the other factory options on the Marti report (A/C, Styled steel wheels, Deluxe Steering wheel, P/S, AM Radio, 289, C4, Tinted Glass, California Emissions).  As the car sits now, all pieces of the deluxe interior are present.

 

 

[Vicfreg 773]

Wow, that is a very cool story, what a research project!

[RPM 1,190]

I don't think quality was job 1 for Ford in this time period. I'm thankful the designers had skills.