Collasped lifter

[TinMan 77]

Did a search.. didn't see anything..

 

Been sitting for 33 years.. spun motor a few revolutions by hand.. primed the oil system tonight.. put on TDC... and there's collapsed lifters..

 

What's the best way to approach this without pulling the cam and lifters????   spin motor with starter??? or just yank everything???

 

https://youtu.be/sw2_Z6KFHDQ

[barnett468 418]

well its hard to tell but it looks like your cam may be flat or the studs may be pulling out of the heads, and my guess is that its long past time for an entire rebuild . you can start an engine rebuild thread if you want to do that.

[Dave R. 85]

My one experience with a similar situation found me starting the engine and letting it idle. After checking for good oil pressure the engine warmed and as the oil circulated the engine gradually smoothed out and after about 7-8 minutes was purring. The lifters apparently pumped up as the oil circulated. This was with the 12-15 year old oil, nasty spark plugs and a ounce or 2 of lacquer thinner dumped down the carb to get the motor started. Your situation may not be all gloom and doom.    Dave R.

[barnett468 418]

do not try to start your engine with your rockers loose like that, it will damage something.

[1969_Mach1 333]

My guess is those valves were open when the motor was last shut off.  The valve springs pushed the plungers down in the lifters.  I wouldn't start is like that a push rod might come out of place then something might get damaged.  I would try priming the oil pump for a longer period of time and rotate the crank by hand periodically while doing so.

 

I know to free up sticky lifters we use to substitute 1/2 qt. of the motor oil with ATF.  But that was with running engines and a mild ticking lifter.  It might be a stretch, but I wonder if that or an additive might free up those lifters while priming it?

[barnett468 418]

i have never seen a plunger in a lifter stuck at the bottom of a lifter . there is also only around .150" of travel in the plunger . ALL of his rocker studs are sticking out the top of the nut by maybe 1 1/4" . they should be sticking out no more that 1/2" . something is majorly f'd up.

 

People do not typically park a car for 30 years if the engine runs good, nor should one buy a non running car with the expectation that they can get it running fine with minor work irregardless of what the seller says like, "Well it ran fine when I parked it 30 years ago.".

[Trinitys 134]

It did run before it sat correct?? 

 

I dont agree that something is f'ed up. It's hard to tell from the video what type of studs are in it or what the length but i think they look more like 3/4 inch or a bit less from the nut.  Studs could be longer..... I can't tell if those are press in or not but the stud length doesn't look abnormal to me.

 

I would spin it with the starter for a bit and let it get a good oil pressure going...... I'd even try to start it. But that's me. Lifters are require hydraulic pressure to function and if this has been sitting for 30 years like this or how ever long, it may just need some good oil pressure. 

[barnett468 418]

stud length above the nut looks grossly excessive from what i can see anyway . the stud should not protrude above the nut by more than around 5/8" . the 4th rocker back had around 1/4" of freeplay when you lifted it . if you try to turn the nuts clockwise and they do not turn, something is majorly f'd up . if they do turn, you can try adjusting the lifters.

 

 

What are all the numbers and letters on the top of the heads in the valve cover are?

[Rsanter 152]

First thing I would do is pull the distributor and drive the oil pump with a drill or a speed handle. Measure the oil pressure you are getting and see if the lifters are pumping up with the oil pressure.

 

Then if they are not I would drain the oil and the oil filter. Put the oil filter back on and then bump a gallon of thinner into the engine.

Run the oil pump with a drill to circulate the thinner through oiling system in an afford to clean the passages and free up the lifter.

Drain the thinner and put three quarts of cheap oil in the engine. Run the oil pump with a drill to clear the system of thinner. Dump the thinner and refill with fresh oil and a new filter

Run the oil pump with a drill and see if the lifters will pump up

 

Bob

[TinMan 77]

I'm the second owner.. first was a girl... I've never touched anything in the valve train.. pretty sure the first owner didn't either..

 

It was running when parked in 1983 and I moved out of state. Would start when visiting.. moved back in 1987 and would start several times a year... in 1990 gas was too old to fire again and that was the last time started.

 

Before this vid taken, I did pull the distributor and spin the fuel pump for about 5 minutes... it's fresh oil and filter... 

 

I've still got some more to do before trying to fire... was planning on pulling plugs and spinning motor with starter to see if it tries to pump up before attempting to fire.

 

Worst case is replacing the cam, lifters and pushrods... I've already checked..they're not that expensive..

[Trinitys 134]

A motor with this age, if you can't get the lifter to play nice....id just replace the lifters. Leave the cam because the cam bearings are...trying to think of the right words....broken in with that cam..seated or worn. worst case but I wouldn't unless you just want a different cam. Just pull the intake, rocker arms and push rods (keep em in order) and replace the lifters if need be. Put it back together. Fire it up. Sounds easy lol

[barnett468 418]

ok, you might have stuck some valves using old gas.

 

remove all the rockers then lay a straight edge like a long metal ruler over as many valves as you can and see if any are low . especially the fourth valve back . if any valves are more than around 1/8" low, they are stuck and you are screwed . te rings are also possbly stuck and if they sre, the engine must come apart.

 

this is the most likely explanation for your problem based on your information since oil will not turn to varnish and cause a lifter plunger to get stuck at the bottom of the stroke.

 

if you killed the cam, there is likely a ton of metal in the oil . you can NOT get all this metal out and at the very least the pan has to come off to be cleaned and the oil pump has to be cleaned.

 

did you try to tighten the rocker nuts at any time?

 

if so, exactly what did you do and when did you do it?

[TinMan 77]

A motor with this age, if you can't get the lifter to play nice....id just replace the lifters. Leave the cam because the cam bearings are...trying to think of the right words....broken in with that cam..seated or worn. worst case but I wouldn't unless you just want a different cam. Just pull the intake, rocker arms and push Ross (keep em in order) and replace the lifters if need be. Put it back together. Fire it up. Sounds easy lol

 

 

That's a good idea.. can put assembly lube on the ones not changed as well.  What about break in on new lifters?

 

There was no metal in the oil. I've spun the engine by hand quite a bit.. it's completely free. Valves are fine.

[barnett468 418]

That's a good idea.. can put assembly lube on the ones not changed as well.  What about break in on new lifters?

 

There was no metal in the oil. I've spun the engine by hand quite a bit.. it's completely free. Valves are fine.

your engine is f'd up.

 

did you put a straight edge on the valves like i suggested?

 

did you drag a magnet thru the oil?

 

did you try turning the nut as i suggested?

 

an engine does NOT run perfectly then suddenly magically develop massive clearance between the lifter and push rod etc unless someone snuck into your garage and loosened them.

[TinMan 77]

Real loose rocker..the rocker stud got yanked outta the head. Time to pull heads. Found place local to rebuild both heads with hardened seats. We'll see what the short block looks like after yanking... might have it freshened up.. also found local shop to freshen FMX as well.. we'll see...

 

[barnett468 418]

yup, this usually only occurs when a higher lift cam and/or stiffer springs are used . you can either put pins in the studs or have screw in ones installed . if you have low compression heads, you can gain a little power by milling them up t .035" from stock.

 

if the pistons are below the block when they are at tdc, you can use thinner head gaskets from cometic to get your quench distance closer to .042".

 

i would also set it up so the rockers are adjustable.

 

if your seats are not bad and it isn't a daily driver, i would not install seats . if you install seats, get a written guarantee that they will pay for the labor to repair any damage caused by that and pay for all parts.

 

 

rocker stud pins

 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Rocker-Arm-Stud-Pinning-Kit,734.html

[Mach1 Driver 560]

i would also set it up so the rockers are adjustable.

 

if your seats are not bad and it isn't a daily driver, i would not install seats . if you install seats, get a written guarantee that they will pay for the labor to repair any damage caused by that and pay for all parts.

 

 

...set it up so the rockers are adjustable- other than the usual adjustment nut?

 

I take it that it's common for the seats to get loose? Are they just press fitted?

[barnett468 418]

...set it up so the rockers are adjustable- other than the usual adjustment nut?

 

I take it that it's common for the seats to get loose? Are they just press fitted?

if those heads are stock, the nut is not adjustable . it is designed to be tightened to a certain torque when t bottoms on the unthreaded portion of the stud shaft/

 

i have installed hundreds of seats and none fell out because i knew how to do it . some people do it well and others dont . i have had seats fall out of two different engines that were done by someone else.

.