Rodman 11 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 MikeStang how noise are your lifter? does it last about a minute or two? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Don't get me to lying to ya Rod. Main reason I swapped Lifters was to get away from dog bone set-up and spider retainer, and when my builder said that several of my Comp Factory replacement lifters had the roller pins working out that closed the deal for me. I broke my motor in on straight 30wt and it was quiet for a bit then all of a sudden I had rocker noise which turned out to be a loose rocker for whatever reason, which actually happened on the dyno the FIRST time I had the motor built...We noticed it because the power was down like 35hp from a previous pull and popped covers and rocker was loose. When I Zero lash the rockers and then start turning the wrench there is a very noticeable difference indicated on the dial indicator as well as the force it takes to turn the nut just after about 1/4 turn... The needle usually swings 10-20 thou in the first 1/4 or less and then you can tell that your forcing the cup down into the lifter body and forcing the oil to bleed out of the lifter at about anything past 1/4 turn... if you have performance valve springs and push in rocker studs they could be slowly pullig out of the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 before the comp lifter roller failed the was no lifter noise 6100 miles on the engine , oil used was hps street 10w30. now following the ajustment procedure i tuned just over a 1/2 of a turn . spec if .030 to .035 . stud is 7/16 x 20. a 1/2 turn is .025 and 3/4 is .375 , correct? for the first 100 miles it was quit with motorcraft 5w30 , started making noise right after start up would last a couple of minutes. change the oil to mobil 1 10w40 and adjusted to spec. was 100% better. theres 500 mile on the engine now and its noisy again. could valve spring pressure cause this? specs are seat pressure 155@1900 open pressure 475@1.1300 coil ind height 1.150 see reply above . it is possibly rockers studs pulling out or cam lobes going flat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969_Mach1 333 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Technically it should take like .60 of a turn to hit the magic .35 thousand preload I think, but 1/2 a turn got me 32-35 thou. I adjust my Crane tie bar style hyd. roller lifters slightly past 1/2 turn using 7/16-20 rocker arm studs. These Crane lifters are too expensive in my opinion. But, I bought these a long time ago when Crane was the only one offering them for small block Ford's. There is a small amount of valve train noise but not lifter ticking. The machine shop that I use tells me that is fairly common for all tie bar style hyd. roller lifters. And much of it depends on how aggressive the cam shaft is. Like I mentioned earlier, the X303 I use is mild by most peoples standards. The lobe ramps are much less aggressive than say Comp's Xtreme series. Most threads I read complaining of lifter or valve train noise involve Comp's Xtreme series camshaft. Which makes sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 I adjust my Crane tie bar style hyd. roller lifters slightly past 1/2 turn using 7/16-20 rocker arm studs. These Crane lifters are too expensive in my opinion. But, I bought these a long time ago when Crane was the only one offering them for small block Ford's. There is a small amount of valve train noise but not lifter ticking. The machine shop that I use tells me that is fairly common for all tie bar style hyd. roller lifters. And much of it depends on how aggressive the cam shaft is. Like I mentioned earlier, the X303 I use is mild by most peoples standards. The lobe ramps are much less aggressive than say Comp's Xtreme series. Most threads I read complaining of lifter or valve train noise involve Comp's Xtreme series camshaft. Which makes sense to me. 69 mach . i have been a comp cam dealer since they first started selling cams and what i havve determined is that it is comps pos lifters that make noise . . i never had any noise using crane antti pump up lifters. every single person i know that had noise was also using comp lifters and ever one that switched to crane lifters no longer had noise . . this was on non roller cams including the xe series . . i have never used a crane roller so i know nothing about them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Barnett, My heads ARE AFR 205's and have Screw in Studs, and I checked them to be sure they are tight lol. Rodman... My lifters are noisy for a few minutes and then even with the 5w/20 I was running they would quieten down a bit... I changed the oil to a Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 10w/30 last night and the noise didn't seem to get any louder or quieter haha...Still sounds like I have 1 Valve out of adjustment a little bit tho as the Pass side is a slight bit louder than the driver side... Tonight if I have time I am going to pop the covers off and I will use the TDC method to adjust both valves on every Cyl in the firing order... I will take a few pics of the preload with the dial indicator on the rockers at 1/4 & 1/2 turn so maybe someone can see something I don't... Then Im probably going to just Zero Lash them and TRY 1/4 turn past Zero Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Ill see about videoing it and timing it to see how long it takes to go quiet... Usually I don't wait tho, I just put it in gear and GO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Barnett, My heads ARE AFR 205's and have Screw in Studs, and I checked them to be sure they are tight lol. LOL, well alrighty then, in that case, my best guess is that they are NOT pulling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Barnett, My heads ARE AFR 205's and have Screw in Studs, and I checked them to be sure they are tight lol. Rodman... My lifters are noisy for a few minutes and then even with the 5w/20 I was running they would quieten down a bit... I changed the oil to a Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 10w/30 last night and the noise didn't seem to get any louder or quieter haha...Still sounds like I have 1 Valve out of adjustment a little bit tho as the Pass side is a slight bit louder than the driver side... Tonight if I have time I am going to pop the covers off and I will use the TDC method to adjust both valves on every Cyl in the firing order... I will take a few pics of the preload with the dial indicator on the rockers at 1/4 & 1/2 turn so maybe someone can see something I don't... Then Im probably going to just Zero Lash them and TRY 1/4 turn past Zero you can measure the damper diameter them divide the number by 4 then put 4 evenly spaced marks on the damper with white out starting at the tdc mark. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted February 10, 2016 Couldn't I just use the big ol white scale that my balancer has on it and put 3 Marks and save 1 white out paint dot since my balancer says TDC in 1 place already HaHaHa... I actually like the method of the opposing cyl adjustment cuz once you start the cycle, every turn moves ya to the next valve in the firing order... Its funny how many correct ways one can do the same thing LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnett468 418 Report post Posted February 11, 2016 Couldn't I just use the big ol white scale that my balancer has on it and put 3 Marks and save 1 white out paint dot since my balancer says TDC in 1 place already HaHaHa... I actually like the method of the opposing cyl adjustment cuz once you start the cycle, every turn moves ya to the next valve in the firing order... Its funny how many correct ways one can do the same thing LOL you can do that if your damper is marked for a full 360 degrees, and this method will guarantee that you are at tdc. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted February 29, 2016 Well after hitting every Cyl at TDC on Compression stroke and adjusting both valves on every Cyl to 1/2 turn it was nice and quiet, then I took it for a drive and could tell right off that something was not correct, then under medium to heavy throttle throttle it would pop through the exhaust...Grrrr. I didn't have time to video it but used the dial indicator on about 6 valves and 1/2 turn would ned me .032 to .035 thousands preload. I would back off the rocker and wait 3-5 min for the lifter cup to return to center then run it to 0 lash and go 1/2 turn and lock them down.... it hit between .032 and .035 every time except once on one lifter it would never bleed down for me past about 15thousands .... figured maybe it was the orientation of the lifter oil hole in the galley or something keeping it from bleeding down. Anyhow I brought it home, popped the valve covers and installed my cut out top valve covers and adjusted them by backing the nut off till it clattered, then running it down until it just stopped clattering and then added 1/4 a turn and locked the nuts down.... did both sides and reinstalled valve covers and test drove... it was a little more noisy than I like but it ran just fine.... Humm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sixt9stang 36 Report post Posted March 1, 2016 Great info here that I would have loved years ago. Might have kept me from recking my cam. Subbing for when I finally rebuild my engine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3pedal 95 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 I recently built a 408 ci 4 bolt Cleveland...full roller with Morel limited travel billet PBMRL962 rollers...talked to many pros all with slightly different setting recommendations...well after the 4th setting at 1/4 turn past -0-lash it is perfect...engine will turn close to 7000 rpm...yes the valve train is slightly noisy,not loud,great idle.....Remember these are limited travel lifters with only .030 of piston travel..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeStang 247 Report post Posted March 2, 2016 Mine are not limited travel tho... I can crank them down and get over 80thou without opening a valve when its on the heel of the cam. 1/4 turn seems to be the magic number for me as well but it seems like I have a bit more tick on one side than the other so it may need just a bit more on one or 2 rockers...gotta fine tune it some Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fvike 173 Report post Posted March 3, 2016 Check out Joe Gibbs Driven oil. Best oil I've used. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray1970 88 Report post Posted March 4, 2016 At the risk of knowing oil and tires can be a never ending debate... What makes it a great oil? 45 years of changing oil in cars and motorsport units (daily)I haven't seen any modern oil that is bad. Having oil is good. No oil is bad.. What makes it the best oil?????????????? 1.Oil pressers is higher(Hot) 2.Did not spin a bearing 3.Cold starts better. 4.Less smoke out the pipes 5.I paid more money for it.. This makes me feel better. Feeling a little off tonight...Wife is pissy.... Don't take it personally.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
