Audio Speaker Questions

[cobra3073 24]

I am in the process of restomoding a 1969 Mach 1 (F Code). Essentially, I am putting together a more "modern" "R" code.

 

I am not really a audio freak but would like to upgrade the stock AM/FM radio that came with the "F" code and am looking at one of the "Retro Sound" 200 watts systems.

 

I have converted to the fold down rear and do not want to cut the trap door for speakers. I see that "NPD" markets two kick panels (without speakers) that are designed for:

 

(1) a 4 X 6 1/2" speaker; and

 

(2) a 5 1/2" round speaker.

 

I am thinking one of these options will probably satisfy my current needs.

 

Rather than do a LOT of research (remember, I am not really an audio enthusiast, by nature), I was wondering what some of you "audio enthusiasts" think:

 

(1) would be a good option for which brand speakers will probably satisfy my needs?

 

(2) as to what other option for speaker placement (other than cutting the trap door or my door panels) would work in case I ever decide to give this car to one of my kids?

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

BT

[barnett468 418]

hello

 

kick panel ones are the only ones that won't hack up the car . . they usually can be bought with speakers . . i would also consider getting a dual channel twin speaker for the dash . . this will bounce sound off the windshield and fill the car with more sound . . your radio is most likely around 50 amps but they use a generous rating system.

 

there is no point in buying very expensive speakers since they will not be in a proper enclosure . . in other words, 100.00 ones won't sound much better than 20.00 ones . . radio shack has a lot of speakers but no covers . . i would buy ones that have two speakers in them instead of a dual cone type but these are hard to find so the dual cone type is the next best option . . it should also have a foam outer edge . . this allows the speaker to move more freely and quickly which will provide more base sound.

 

i would use the round one . . make sure the ones you buy are shallow enough . . i would also use 4 ohm speakers . . these are the right size crappy dual voice cone but they sre cheap and they fit

 

http://www.nipponamerica.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2043

 

http://www.shopbot.ca/ps-new-pair-xxx-5-12-dual-cone-60w-car-speaker-xgt-1605-hot-deal-115849106.html

.

.

Edited December 30, 2014 by barnett468

[magician 13]

Any quality name brand coaxial speaker will do fine. Pioneer,MB quartz,sony. I agree with adding two 3 1/2 speakers to the center dash location. Sub woofer in the trunk is nice. Also a aftermarket trap door with cut outs already in it might work.

[cobra3073 24]

GREAT inputs, Guys!

 

Thanks!

 

BT

[1969_Mach1 333]

I installed the kick panels that hold the 4 x 6-1/2 inch speakers. I tried both and of the two kick panel speaker options these fit the best. I installed 4" Blaupunkt Blue Magic speakers in them because everything I've read about 4 x 6 or 4 x 6-1/2 size speakers states they are the worse for sound distortion because of the speaker shape. Which makes sense if you think about it. These along with 6 x 9 Blaupunkt blue Magic speakers in one of those back trap doors with speaker pods sound much better than I expected. Especially when you consider I have them connected to a NOS 1970's RCA brand AM/FM 8-track. If I had to do it again I would go with Infinity 4 x 6 plate speakers in the kick panels. These are separates, one 4" speaker and one small tweeter mounted on a plate to fit a 4 x 6 mount. I've read the plate speaker option is the best for a 4 x 6 or 4 x 6-1/2 speaker size.

 

The only negative is the speaker grill fits but overhangs the pod. I understand this is true for the other kick panel style as well. Lastly, I did fix all the side-to-side play in my E-brake pedal and install 1/2 inch spacers where the E-brake assembly mounts to the car body. This provides adequate clearance between the speaker grill and the E-brake pedal. The spacing is not noticeable, works fine, and the pedal is easily usable.

 

For me, one of the best aspects of the trap door and kick panels with speaker pods is you don't modify any original parts.

[barnett468 418]

if you use speakers in an aftermarket trap door, i would use 2 8" inch ones . . make a box 10 1/2" x 10 1/2" x 4" deep box from 1/2" thick plywood . . line it with 1" fluffy fiberglass insulation . . maybe drill a 1" diameter hole next to the speaker so it enters the box . . use the crossovers listed below they have a tweeter attenuation [volume] switch . . put the epi speakers outside the box . . this simple set up will be extremely good for what it is . . the enclosure will give a fuller richer sound with more base . . the boxes will make a huge difference and so will the cross overs.

 

you can assemble them with little 90 degree brackets and drywall or wood screw . . use the same brackets to mount them to the door.

 

buy these

 

4 ohm 2800 hz cross over, tweeter volume adjustment

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STX20-SWISS-AUDIO-2WAY-PASSIVE-CROSSOVERS-for-ALPINE-MTX-MOREL-PIONEER-SONY-SPL-/130571308646#ht_2997wt_954

 

 

buy these tweeters or the next generation ones below . . they are one of the best high fi tweeters you can buy for less than a few hundred dollars guaranteed . . virtually no one even knows about them and they are incredibly hard to come by . . they are inverted dome style . . put them in the rear panel.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-Vintage-1980-EPI-Epicure-Dual-GOLD-RING-Tweeters-from-model-100-Speaker-/281542034404#ht_62wt_1310

 

 

or these . . they are the next generation . . only difference is that the cone and wires are behind the face plate so you can't knock the wires off throwin stuff in the back of your car.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPI-Epicure-1019-Inverted-Dome-Tweeters-Pair-A70-and-many-others-VINTAGE-/221547691720#ht_147wt_1175

 

 

heres another 1" inverted dome . . might not be be a bad speaker especially if you like the looks better than the epi's . .

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundstream-TWT-6T-1-TWT-Series-Titanium-Inverted-Dome-Tweeter-/191429957142?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item2c921d5616#ht_2528wt_1175

 

 

this is the only other 1" inverted dome speaker i know of and it is around $170.00 . . phosgate made one but they discontinued it.

 

http://www.audiospecialist.gr/focal-p-438.html

 

 

ok found more front speakers . . you can use 5 1/4" too in the kick panels and there is a much bigger selection . . these are far better than the ones i previously listed and they are a "name brand" as if that means much . . they also have a separate tweeter . . this better than a dual voice cone speaker.

 

http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PLSL502/525-160-Watt-Slim-Mount-Two-Way-Coaxial-Speakers

 

 

if you have enough depth you can use one of these others . . a 3 way would be best check out pg 2 also..

 

http://www.pyleaudio.com/products/On-the-Road/Vehicle-Speakers

.

Edited December 31, 2014 by barnett468

[1969_Mach1 333]

You're right barnett468, there are more 5-1/4 inch speaker options. But the front kick panels for those larger speakers are horrible. The pod extends out further to accommodate the larger mounting depth. They render the E-brake almost unusable, reduce leg room a noticeable amount, and do not look correct in there.

 

I wish they would redesign the kick panel for the 5-1/4 inch speakers. At least move the pod up higher like the kick panel for the 4 x 6 speakers, and make the pod round instead of tear drop shaped. I know it is tear drop shaped so separates can be installed. But the tear drop shape adds to the E-brake issues.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I just have a dual speaker in the dash pad. It struggles to get sound out. It makes me wonder if it's because the perforation in the pad is so fine that it's restrictive.

[barnett468 418]

You're right barnett468, there are more 5-1/4 inch speaker options. But the front kick panels for those larger speakers are horrible. The pod extends out further to accommodate the larger mounting depth. They render the E-brake almost unusable, reduce leg room a noticeable amount, and do not look correct in there.

 

I wish they would redesign the kick panel for the 5-1/4 inch speakers. At least move the pod up higher like the kick panel for the 4 x 6 speakers, and make the pod round instead of tear drop shaped. I know it is tear drop shaped so separates can be installed. But the tear drop shape adds to the E-brake issues.

 

ok im confused now you said one option was 5 1/2 inch speakers in custom kick panels . .m i know they interfere with the ebrake a bit . . you could add speakers to the door this was a factory option then buy the factory speaker cover . ..

[barnett468 418]

I just have a dual speaker in the dash pad. It struggles to get sound out. It makes me wonder if it's because the perforation in the pad is so fine that it's restrictive.

 

there are a few different brands of das speaker some sound less muffled than others but yes the tiny holes n the pad will muffle the sound noticeably but obviouslky cant do much about it . . if your speakers do not have a foam edge they will sound a bit bright meaning not much tone or bass.

[cobra3073 24]

You guys are going to make an "Audio Enthusiast"out of me!

 

Again, I don't want to cut the trap door but y'all have certainly giving me a LOT of information to consider...it is highly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

BT

[1969_Mach1 333]

You guys are going to make an "Audio Enthusiast"out of me!

 

Again, I don't want to cut the trap door but y'all have certainly giving me a LOT of information to consider...it is highly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

BT

 

You don't have to cut your trap door. There are aftermarket trap doors with speaker pods built into them. Every Mustang parts house sells them. These aftermarket trap doors are ABS plastic, but they save you from cutting your original trap door. That's what I did. I boxed up and saved my original trap door.

[cobra3073 24]

You don't have to cut your trap door. There are aftermarket trap doors with speaker pods built into them. Every Mustang parts house sells them. These aftermarket trap doors are ABS plastic, but they save you from cutting your original trap door. That's what I did. I boxed up and saved my original trap door.

Yes, I am aware of the plastic ones.

 

Actually, it is not that I am trying to save the metal trap door or anything as I am NOT a purist by any means. The trap door I have is not original to the car as I added the fold down. It is just that I rather hear the sounds of the big block rather than music. With that in mind, I didn't initially see the need for having music blasting all around me, if that makes sense.

 

That having been said, I am considering ALL options as I make my final decisions...THANKS for the input!

 

BT

[barnett468 418]

Yes, I am aware of the plastic ones.

 

Actually, it is not that I am trying to save the metal trap door or anything as I am NOT a purist by any means. The trap door I have is not original to the car as I added the fold down. It is just that I rather hear the sounds of the big block rather than music. With that in mind, I didn't initially see the need for having music blasting all around me, if that makes sense.

 

That having been said, I am considering ALL options as I make my final decisions...THANKS for the input!

 

BT

 

hey, why are you putting a 200 gigawatt stereo in it then...huh?

 

you could just use one of these

 

. . . .

 

 

 

or use two if you want stereo

 

. .

 

 

you don't need the fold down area

 

.

.

Edited December 30, 2014 by barnett468

[cobra3073 24]

hey, why are you putting a 200 gigawatt stereo in it then...huh?

 

you could just use one of these

 

. . . .

 

 

 

or use two if you want stereo

 

. .

 

 

you don't need the fold down area

 

.

.

LOL!

 

Yes, you know how it goes as you are putting a car together. As you go about "working" each subsystem, you (at least I do) tend to go overboard.

 

Nice reality check, by the way!

 

BT

[manley 13]

Ideally, you want the sound coming from in front of you.... subwoofers don't matter as much. You can always get rid of the parking brake and install a custom center console that houses an e-brake from a late model Mustang.

 

We're going to turn your simple request into a huge project whether you want it or not! lol ;)

[1969_Mach1 333]

Yes, I am aware of the plastic ones.

 

Actually, it is not that I am trying to save the metal trap door or anything as I am NOT a purist by any means. The trap door I have is not original to the car as I added the fold down. It is just that I rather hear the sounds of the big block rather than music. With that in mind, I didn't initially see the need for having music blasting all around me, if that makes sense.

 

That having been said, I am considering ALL options as I make my final decisions...THANKS for the input!

 

BT

 

 

Oh, I thought your goal was to not cut up any original pieces, I apologize. I am going to add and you might not like it. But the most straight forward method to get two speakers installed is use an aftermarket trap door with speaker pods. Any kick panel with speaker pods will cause other issues that need to be addressed. Relatively speaking, running additional speaker wire to the back isn't difficult. If your current trap door is an original, and even if it's not original to your car, it has a lot of value.

Edited December 30, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[cobra3073 24]

Oh, I thought your goal was to not cut up any original pieces, I apologize. I am going to add and you might not like it. But the most straight forward method to get two speakers installed is use an aftermarket trap door with speaker pods. Any kick panel with speaker pods will cause other issues that need to be addressed. Relatively speaking, running additional speaker wire to the back isn't difficult. If your current trap door is an original, and even if it's not original to your car, it has a lot of value.

No, on the contrary, I appreciate ALL opinions. I realize it is not difficult to run the wires to the back, so this is not an issue.

 

I will be running an automatic behind the 428SCJ so there will be a bit more space on the driver side as it relates to access to the dimmer and the E-brake. This will eliminate one of the problems I have read about when utilizing some after market speakers in that kick panel.

 

I am continuing my research and am mulling over all the possibilities. To me, that is one of the beauties of this hobby (wading through the different options to arrive at the best decision for the application).

 

Again, Thanks guys for the inputs as I am enjoying going through them and becoming more "audio" aware.

 

 

BT

[barnett468 418]

Ok, there are better radios like alpine, concord and clarion and jvc that will fit you faceplate with little to no mod to the face plate . . some have cassette players a I pod mega thingy plug ins . . a new radio bezel is only $28.00 anyway. .

 

You can mount a cd player in the trunk

 

Sound from the rear will make it sound like you are right in the center of the band, it is very cool if you are into music . . you can start with just front speakers and if you want more than add it.

 

An equalizer is virtually a must on car audio . . they are cheap and some radios have them built in.

 

Sound is round buy round speakers . . oval speakers will not have as much tone/bass.

 

Never, ever, ever, use a “piezo electric†speaker…ever . . even if someone pays you . .

 

You do not need gold end wires but they are nice . . standard 14 gauge speaker wire is more than big enough.

 

yes you can mount box speakers to a trap door if you like that sort of look and if you do that you might as well just mount them to the fold down so it will not ruin your trap door.

 

i would not cut a nice $300.00 trap door, besides there is a brace on the back side that will make it very difficult to install a speaker enclosure on.

 

i have thrown away more sub woofers than i can count . . i would not use one...ever.

 

 

 

.

Edited December 31, 2014 by barnett468

[Guillaume69 150]

Here's my set-up:

 

Front:

- head unit Retrosound Model 2 Malibu - looks like an old radio. Works like the latest stuff (Bluetooth, etc.)

- (4'+ twitter) x 2 under the dash (invisible)

- nothing in the doors or kick panels

 

Rear:

- 2 (7'x??) woofers under the package tray (visible only if you get your head in the trunk)

- 1 JL Audio 10' mini-sub in the trunk, (located inside driver side Q panel. you can hardly see it)

- 1 JL Audio 4 ways Amp, located under the package tray (invisible), powering all these.

 

As far as subs go, I personally do not agree with previous post: high quality bass (not necessary loud, but deep) is very important for a good audio experience, and without a sub, all the bass you'll hear will come from your exhaust... At least, that's what I get with my Hooker 4-in-1s and Flowmasters.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Guillaume69

[barnett468 418]

Here's my set-up:

 

Front:

- head unit Retrosound Model 2 Malibu - looks like an old radio. Works like the latest stuff (Bluetooth, etc.)

- (4'+ twitter) x 2 under the dash (invisible)

- nothing in the doors or kick panels

 

Rear:

- 2 (7'x??) woofers under the package tray (visible only if you get your head in the trunk)

- 1 JL Audio 10' mini-sub in the trunk, (located inside driver side Q panel. you can hardly see it)

- 1 JL Audio 4 ways Amp, located under the package tray (invisible), powering all these.

 

As far as subs go, I personally do not agree with previous post: high quality bass (not necessary loud, but deep) is very important for a good audio experience, and without a sub, all the bass you'll hear will come from your exhaust... At least, that's what I get with my Hooker 4-in-1s and Flowmasters.

 

nice car . . if you can remove your CS110 sub woofer and put your other woofers in proper enclosures as i suggested to the op in an earlier post, and run a cross over, you will have much better "audio experience" with plenty of bass for a car unit . . speakers need to be in a proper enclosure to get the optimum sound and performance . . there should also be no obstruction in front of them.

 

.

.

Edited December 31, 2014 by barnett468

[1969_Mach1 333]

Guillaume69, beautiful craftsmanship, but it's a bit over the top. That aside, the under dash/behind dash equipment installation won't work if the car has factory A/C. Plus with a fold down rear seat there is no package tray to mount any rear equipment to. I think, like myself, cobra3073 prefers something more subtle and basic.

[barnett468 418]

.

here ya go . . a speakerless car speaker . . doesn't take up any room at all.

 

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/MartinLogan-Unveils-Invisible-Car-Audio-Speakers.shtml

[det0326 179]

.

here ya go . . a speakerless car speaker . . doesn't take up any room at all.

 

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/MartinLogan-Unveils-Invisible-Car-Audio-Speakers.shtml

 

What will they think of next???

[barnett468 418]

What will they think of next???

 

thats nuts isn't it . . they have flexible/bendable leds now so one company made a flexible tv screen that is around 5/16" thick.