Installing a TKO 600 in a 1970 Mach 1.

[rharden 12]

I decided to replace my Ford top loader with a Tremec TKO 600. The car is a 1970 Mach 1 with a 351C stroked to a 408. I have been pricing installation kits and transmissions from several Tremec dealers. Most of these dealer's kits include a spacer plate that fits between the bell housing and the transmission. Others sell the TKO 600 with a short input shaft and the spacer plate is not required. The dealers that sell the transmission with the short input shaft tell me I can use my stock drive shaft without shortening it, because there is no spacer being used. Is this true? The dealers that include the spacer plate in their kit tell me if I don't use a spacer, the transmission will be to far forward and I will have to cut the floor opening for the shifter. Is this true? I don't want to cut the floor opening because I'm using my stock console. I don't want to shorten my drive shaft either, if I don't need to. Has anyone done this conversion with a TKO 600? AMP Performance and several others use a short input shaft transmission and an off set shifter that they say prevents from cutting the floor opening. Do I need to cut the tunnel rib? Some say I don't need to. Please give me some thoughts and ideas before I buy the wrong kit.

[j69302 11]

First, have you spoke to Bruce at Modern Driveline? He has the best packages, best designed cross members, and probably the most knowledgeable person on this subject. I would take his word over anyone else who might differ.

 

- Also keep in mind, each supplier has their own design of trans crossmember. The trans crossmember, is what is going to "locate" the engine and trans for/aft. See info about engine mounts below. They are not needed, but they can help out a whole bunch in aligning everything, as well as lowering the engine for a more correct drive line angle.

 

As far as the drive shaft goes.. You will have to measure and check after the installation. If I remember correctly, my measurements came out within 3/4 inch. I don't remember if the new shaft was longer or shorter.

 

If you have the original, or stock style, 2 piece rubber drive shaft, I highly recommend to have a 1 piece shaft installed instead. Especially since you are building a stroker 408

 

Driveshaft shops usually WILL NOT shorten a 2 piece drive shaft, as they are of small tube, surrounded by a rubber bushing, with another tube out side of it. They can't shorten these due to the original construction.

 

I went with a standard shaft length, and the TKO bell housing. The shifter ended up dead nuts in the center of the hole. Judging based on mine, I would say there is plenty of room to move the shifter approx 1 inch forward.

 

- I did go from an AUTO, so the shifter hole might have been bigger than if it were a manual.

 

- I do have Ron Morris adjustable engine mounts. I highly suggest you get these as well.

 

- Modern Driveline did install their offset shifter. However, the offset occurs above the floor cutout on mine, it moves the lever 1 inch rear and 1 inch left towards the driver for better reach - not hole clearance.

 

The reason for the motor mounts is that with those, and with (at least with modern drivelines cross member do to its slotted holes for the trans mount), you have plenty of room to slide the engine forwards and back. I don't know if anyone else's crossmember has slotted trans mount holes.

 

Also, I was able to use the lowered engine mounts, and shim the transmission quite a bit, I shimmed the trans mount until I had only 1 thread sticking out passed the nut once torqued. This gave me a good drive line angle, with out any vibrations.

 

I was able to install mine without cutting a single thing. I have about a half to a full finger width of clearance between the case and tunnel ribbing.

 

Also, I believe modern driveline sells transmissions with modified cases the have even more clearance.

Edited December 1, 2014 by j69302

[rharden 12]

Thanks j69302. Lots of good info. I spoke to Paul at Modern Driveline. He even sent out a few cost estimates. I have talked to several Tremec dealers and that's when I started to get conflicting stories.

[SM69Mach 68]

I used Modern Driveline as well for my conversion. Both Paul and Bruce were very helpful getting what I needed and even answering questions I had when doing the install.

 

I also used the offset Shifter and it lines up great on mine. I had an auto to start with as well so not sure if that makes a difference.

[Alan_Mac 48]

I have a Keisler perfect fit TKO. No Spacer needed and the stock style shifter lines up with the hole. Silver Sport Trans. sell the perfect fit line now. Mine required a new drive shaft and likely you will too. Liberties Gear also owns the IP rights to the perfect fit TKO. I recommend buying the upgraded perfect fit TKO from Liberties if its available.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Alan_Mac

[rharden 12]

I have a Keisler perfect fit TKO. No Spacer needed and the stock style shifter lines up with the hole. Silver Sport Trans. sell the perfect fit line now. Mine required a new drive shaft and likely you will too. Liberties Gear also owns the IP rights to the perfect fit TKO. I recommend buying the upgraded perfect fit TKO from Liberties if its available.

 

Thanks for the info Alan. I price Silver Sport and they were quite a bit higher priced than most of the other dealers. I think he said I would have to buy a spacer plate because Tremec was behind production of the short input shafts. I was leaning towards the short input shaft transmission because AMP Performance told me I wouldn't need to shorten my drive shaft. It sounds like that was bad info. Did you have good tunnel clearance?

[Alan_Mac 48]

Thanks for the info Alan. I price Silver Sport and they were quite a bit higher priced than most of the other dealers. I think he said I would have to buy a spacer plate because Tremec was behind production of the short input shafts. I was leaning towards the short input shaft transmission because AMP Performance told me I wouldn't need to shorten my drive shaft. It sounds like that was bad info. Did you have good tunnel clearance?

 

Yes, My TKO had the short input shaft and I needed a new drive shaft. My motor mounts are TCP stock height. I used the Keisler trans support, which is a very strong piece. I have very good tunnel clearance with the upper support rail notched. I fail to understand why people have an issue with notching the upper support since its easy to do, and poses no structural integrity problem when using a strong trans mounting support. This is the easy way to achieve the correct drive shaft angle. Alan

[SWPruett 83]

Yes, My TKO had the short input shaft and I needed a new drive shaft. My motor mounts are TCP stock height. I used the Keisler trans support, which is a very strong piece. I have very good tunnel clearance with the upper support rail notched. I fail to understand why people have an issue with notching the upper support since its easy to do, and poses no structural integrity problem when using a strong trans mounting support. This is the easy way to achieve the correct drive shaft angle. Alan

 

I won't modify my floor support because it will ruin the already finished surfaces and weaken the floor support. In my mind, a proper conversion should fit without hacking anything on the car. Changing motor and trans mounts and building anew driveshaft are fine, but cutting the car is a gam-changer (floor support or shifter hole). Just how I roll. :turned:

[Alan_Mac 48]

I won't modify my floor support because it will ruin the already finished surfaces and weaken the floor support. In my mind, a proper conversion should fit without hacking anything on the car. Changing motor and trans mounts and building anew driveshaft are fine, but cutting the car is a gam-changer (floor support or shifter hole). Just how I roll. :turned:

 

Have you done the TKO conversion?

[j69302 11]

Forgot to suggest this.

 

Since you are building a 408 stroker, and I assume you will drive it hard, I would look into Liberty Gears upgraded TKOs. Not needed, but something to consider.

 

They do surface hardening treatments, and also do something with the synchros that make it shift at high power and high RPM.

 

A stock TKO is not supposed to be shifted above 6500. I have read people noticing shifting problems as low as 5000 rpm. These are hard, power shifts of course.

 

I shift mine at 5000-5500 and have no issues, Accidentally ran it up to 6000 once and Mine shifted fine, but I have a mild built 302.

[Rcodenewf 44]

I've been in contact with Bruce at Modern DL regarding installing a TKO 600 in my 69 fastback smallblock.

 

He advises that there should not be any tunnel modifications only to the early mustangs.

 

I have purchased the one year only Cobra R aluminum bellhousing which accepts the standard input shaft and no need for a spacer. Also this bell is drilled/tapped to accept the slave cylinder that he sells as part of his installation kit for this car.

 

I also purchased the McLeod shifter lever which locates the shifter 1inch rearward and 1inch to the left to center it in the hole.

 

I haven't purchased the trans yet. Just gathering up all the necessary components to do the swap.

 

I will probably have to shorten my driveshaft 1 inch.

 

I checked with American powertrain and got conflicting information and eventually was recommended to Bruce at Modern Driveline.

 

Food for thought....John

[rharden 12]

I've been in contact with Bruce at Modern DL regarding installing a TKO 600 in my 69 fastback smallblock.

 

He advises that there should not be any tunnel modifications only to the early mustangs.

 

I have purchased the one year only Cobra R aluminum bellhousing which accepts the standard input shaft and no need for a spacer. Also this bell is drilled/tapped to accept the slave cylinder that he sells as part of his installation kit for this car.

 

I also purchased the McLeod shifter lever which locates the shifter 1inch rearward and 1inch to the left to center it in the hole.

 

I haven't purchased the trans yet. Just gathering up all the necessary components to do the swap.

 

I will probably have to shorten my driveshaft 1 inch.

 

I checked with American powertrain and got conflicting information and eventually was recommended to Bruce at Modern Driveline.

 

Food for thought....John

 

Thanks John. I did talk to Paul at MDL and he sent out a few price quotes. I also talked with American Powertrain and he told me about the same as MDL. AMP Performance in Phoenix, Arizona was the first dealer that said I didn't need a spacer plate because their trans has the short input shaft. Then he tells me I won't need to shorten my drive shaft. He also said their shifter would fit right through my stock shifter opening and I wouldn't have to cut the tunnel. I like everything he said. Then I Googled AMP Performance and I read several bad reports from unhappy customers. I also checked out a few other dealers, but MDL seamed like one of the best. I do like the idea of not using a spacer plate. I dialed in my Lakewood scatter shield and if I add a spacer to it, what's that going to do to my alignment? To me, the least amount of parts, the better the conversion.

[SWPruett 83]

Have you done the TKO conversion?

 

Not yet. I had time before needing to making a purchase and the guys at Modern recommended I wait and work on other things until they had all the details worked out on their case mods. At least one other member of this board did the same thing and had to modify absolutely nothing to make his MDL TKO-600 fit his 70. I will be doing the exact same conversion with the MDL case mods so no cutting or modifying will be required. Worth the wait in my opinion.

[Alan_Mac 48]

Not yet. I had time before needing to making a purchase and the guys at Modern recommended I wait and work on other things until they had all the details worked out on their case mods. At least one other member of this board did the same thing and had to modify absolutely nothing to make his MDL TKO-600 fit his 70. I will be doing the exact same conversion with the MDL case mods so no cutting or modifying will be required. Worth the wait in my opinion.

 

A TKO case modification for additional vertical clearance would be great, if it doesn't cause case structural problems. Let us know how it works out for you.

[barnett468 418]

if you use the stock linkage i would not use a diaphragm pressure plate . . i would use an orig style mcleod.

.

[rharden 12]

if you use the stock linkage i would not use a diaphragm pressure plate . . i would use an orig style mcleod.

.

 

I am using the stock clutch linkage set up. I did but a new Ram, long style clutch plate and 26 spline disc. The engine has an older Lakewood scatter shield. I had thought about installing a hydraulic system, but I don't mind what Ford built and this car won't be driven too often. Maybe I'm just too cheap to spend the $500.