Steering upgrades choices

[DarkBuddha 107]

So I've got a bit of coin saved up for upgrading my '70 and am trying how best to spend it. I'm in the midst of doing an engine install (408w) and thought it would be a good time to upgrade beyond the factory leaky ps ram and old box. I've budgeted as much as $1000 and I think I've settled on these options, and related issues/benefits:

 

1. Borgeson integrated ps box and pump. Concerns about return to center. It would integrate better with hydroboost power brakes later if I go with supercharger or big cam later. Pricey at almost $1000 after all said and done.

 

2. Rebuilt ps box (maybe with 12:1 gears) with Saturn Vue electric power steering setup. Improved steering ratio means fewer turns lock to lock, and EPAS means no pump to run (or leaks). Cost is more reasonable too, probably $700 max. I'm also slightly concerned about the install and future repairability should the EPAS or electronics fail. Also means no real option for hydroboost power brakes in the future.

 

3. Rebuild ps box with 12:1 gears, reseal the factory ps as best I can, and live with some likely leaks and having to rebuild/reseal it every few years. Cheap at only $400 maybe, and spend the difference on bigger front discs.

 

I'm open to other options in the same general price range, but dropping $1500+ for a power rack is out, and I'm not willing to give up power assist.

 

Let me know whatcha think. Thanks in advance.

[DarkBuddha 107]

So I've got a bit of coin saved up for upgrading my '70 and am trying how best to spend it. I'm in the midst of doing an engine install (408w) and thought it would be a good time to upgrade beyond the factory leaky ps ram and old box. I've budgeted as much as $1000 and I think I've settled on these options, and related issues/benefits:

 

1. Borgeson integrated ps box and pump. Concerns about return to center. It would integrate better with hydroboost power brakes later if I go with supercharger or big cam later. Pricey at almost $1000 after all said and done.

 

2. Rebuilt ps box (maybe with 12:1 gears) with Saturn Vue electric power steering setup. Improved steering ratio means fewer turns lock to lock, and EPAS means no pump to run (or leaks). Cost is more reasonable too, probably $700 max. I'm also slightly concerned about the install and future repairability should the EPAS or electronics fail. Also means no real option for hydroboost power brakes in the future.

 

3. Rebuild ps box with 12:1 gears, reseal the factory ps as best I can, and live with some likely leaks and having to rebuild/reseal it every few years. Cheap at only $400 maybe, and spend the difference on bigger front discs.

 

I'm open to other options in the same general price range, but dropping $1500+ for a power rack is out, and I'm not willing to give up power assist.

 

Let me know whatcha think. Thanks in advance.

[69volunteer 84]

I rebuilt my PS setup--box, ram, pump--and not completely happy with it. Hopefully there are some tweaks I still need to do. Like you, I don't want to drop $1500 on a rack after doing this.

 

Waiting to hear other replies.

 

Never heard of the Saturn Vue setup. Any websites you can point me to on that one?

[69volunteer 84]

I rebuilt my PS setup--box, ram, pump--and not completely happy with it. Hopefully there are some tweaks I still need to do. Like you, I don't want to drop $1500 on a rack after doing this.

 

Waiting to hear other replies.

 

Never heard of the Saturn Vue setup. Any websites you can point me to on that one?

[MikeStang 247]

I may have a nice rebuilt factory Non leaking PS unit for sale soon as I collect up the parts for the VUE Swap

[MikeStang 247]

I may have a nice rebuilt factory Non leaking PS unit for sale soon as I collect up the parts for the VUE Swap

[cavboy78 28]

I installed the borgeson box and saginaw pump on mine and would highly recommend. The return to center issue is a result of needing more positive caster. Once I got that dialed in, I have no issues. GW even sells UCAs now that add in 3 degrees of caster. Also noteworthy, the aftermarket columns (ididit/flaming river) will apparently not work with the box. D/S header clearance is also a little tighter since the box is a little bigger in some areas than the original one.

 

I originally had factory p/s and nothing felt better than yanking out all those leaky hoses, ram, and the stupid control valve! The Borgeson box definitely cleaned up the engine bay and I'll never look back...

Edited November 22, 2014 by cavboy78

[cavboy78 28]

I installed the borgeson box and saginaw pump on mine and would highly recommend. The return to center issue is a result of needing more positive caster. Once I got that dialed in, I have no issues. GW even sells UCAs now that add in 3 degrees of caster. Also noteworthy, the aftermarket columns (ididit/flaming river) will apparently not work with the box. D/S header clearance is also a little tighter since the box is a little bigger in some areas than the original one.

 

I originally had factory p/s and nothing felt better than yanking out all those leaky hoses, ram, and the stupid control valve! The Borgeson box definitely cleaned up the engine bay and I'll never look back...

Edited November 22, 2014 by cavboy78

[Rsanter 152]

There is also the integral power steering box from CPP

The swap is a lot like the borgeson swap but for the 69 you will have to dent the tower just a bit

 

Bob

[Rsanter 152]

There is also the integral power steering box from CPP

The swap is a lot like the borgeson swap but for the 69 you will have to dent the tower just a bit

 

Bob

[3pedal 95]

Did the Borgie swap in my 70 Mach1 and finally got it dialed in with 4 degrees of +caster...I now would highly recommend the swap....joe

[3pedal 95]

Did the Borgie swap in my 70 Mach1 and finally got it dialed in with 4 degrees of +caster...I now would highly recommend the swap....joe

[DarkBuddha 107]

Rsanter, I visited CPP's site, and it appears their conversion IS the Borgeson conversion based on the part number listed. Perhaps you have another link?

[DarkBuddha 107]

Rsanter, I visited CPP's site, and it appears their conversion IS the Borgeson conversion based on the part number listed. Perhaps you have another link?

[DarkBuddha 107]

I'm still super dubious of the self-centering of the Borgeson setup... talked to 2 guys with it at a show today. Both said it won't self center, even with 4+ degrees of caster. So at this point, I think I'm going to try to make the most of the stock steering for a while... install some poly bushings in the ram, go with a roller idler arm, etc. If that works well, I'll probably have the stock box rebuilt with 12:1 gears. If it continues to leak like a sieve, I'll probably go with the Borgeson and live with the lack of self-center.

[DarkBuddha 107]

I'm still super dubious of the self-centering of the Borgeson setup... talked to 2 guys with it at a show today. Both said it won't self center, even with 4+ degrees of caster. So at this point, I think I'm going to try to make the most of the stock steering for a while... install some poly bushings in the ram, go with a roller idler arm, etc. If that works well, I'll probably have the stock box rebuilt with 12:1 gears. If it continues to leak like a sieve, I'll probably go with the Borgeson and live with the lack of self-center.

[det0326 179]

I'm still super dubious of the self-centering of the Borgeson setup... talked to 2 guys with it at a show today. Both said it won't self center, even with 4+ degrees of caster. So at this point, I think I'm going to try to make the most of the stock steering for a while... install some poly bushings in the ram, go with a roller idler arm, etc. If that works well, I'll probably have the stock box rebuilt with 12:1 gears. If it continues to leak like a sieve, I'll probably go with the Borgeson and live with the lack of self-center.

 

The description of this unit says remanufactured and modified to fit the early mustangs. That being said I wonder what the box is originally off of.

I also know that the system has a return to center problem that more positive caster is suppose to fix and some says it does and others say it doesn't. I have also read that even with enough positive caster if the return to center issue is sill there it could be that the internals when rebuilt could be to tight and it can become better the more you drive it. I too want to upgrade my steering but still a little skeptical of the Borgeson unit.

Dave

[det0326 179]

I'm still super dubious of the self-centering of the Borgeson setup... talked to 2 guys with it at a show today. Both said it won't self center, even with 4+ degrees of caster. So at this point, I think I'm going to try to make the most of the stock steering for a while... install some poly bushings in the ram, go with a roller idler arm, etc. If that works well, I'll probably have the stock box rebuilt with 12:1 gears. If it continues to leak like a sieve, I'll probably go with the Borgeson and live with the lack of self-center.

 

The description of this unit says remanufactured and modified to fit the early mustangs. That being said I wonder what the box is originally off of.

I also know that the system has a return to center problem that more positive caster is suppose to fix and some says it does and others say it doesn't. I have also read that even with enough positive caster if the return to center issue is sill there it could be that the internals when rebuilt could be to tight and it can become better the more you drive it. I too want to upgrade my steering but still a little skeptical of the Borgeson unit.

Dave

[1969_Mach1 333]

Since the Borgeson power steering box conversion uses a rebuilt steering box I wonder if people having return-to-center issues simple have the sector shaft preload too tight in the steering box. That will definitely stop the steering box from freely returning to center.

[1969_Mach1 333]

Since the Borgeson power steering box conversion uses a rebuilt steering box I wonder if people having return-to-center issues simple have the sector shaft preload too tight in the steering box. That will definitely stop the steering box from freely returning to center.

[cavboy78 28]

Buddha, were the guys with issues running a newer saginaw pump or the original pump?

[cavboy78 28]

Buddha, were the guys with issues running a newer saginaw pump or the original pump?

[3pedal 95]

The Borgeson conversion in not absolutely perfect but is way better than whats in second place...I completely rebuilt my original 67 PS system including all new suspension parts...no leaks and used roller this and roller that...it was nice but the car felt still a bit loose...absolutely no comparison to my 70 Mach1 with the integral Borgeson system and with all new suspension parts and 4 degrees + caster and 35 lbs tire pressure the return to center is not perfect but real good...just drives like a tight late model car....joe

[3pedal 95]

The Borgeson conversion in not absolutely perfect but is way better than whats in second place...I completely rebuilt my original 67 PS system including all new suspension parts...no leaks and used roller this and roller that...it was nice but the car felt still a bit loose...absolutely no comparison to my 70 Mach1 with the integral Borgeson system and with all new suspension parts and 4 degrees + caster and 35 lbs tire pressure the return to center is not perfect but real good...just drives like a tight late model car....joe

[DarkBuddha 107]

After sleeping on it, I've reconsidered. Even with return to center issues, I think the Borgeson unit is better than investing more in the stock system. Plus, everyone I talked to said it was a huge improvement in control and road feel. I think that is enough alone to make it worthwhile.

 

Cavboy78, it's a good question. One of them was definitely on the original pump. I will definitely do a Saginaw when I do mine.