Power Steering Looseness

[69volunteer 84]

I have posted multiple threads about my original ford PWR steering setup. I have had the steering box, slave, and power steering pump all rebuilt (pump twice).

 

I'm not completely satisfied but it will do for now.

 

It whines when trying to turn from a dead stop which I have been told to expect.

 

But my question is when cruising at 50-60, there is some slight looseness in the feel of the steering wheel. Not significant or scary but its there. If the car wanders out of my lane, it seems I have to make a significant (compared to modern day cars) adjustment.

 

My other classic has non-power steering so it is not a good comparison.

 

Is there any adjustment in the steering box to make? Should I expect this also?

[69volunteer 84]

I have posted multiple threads about my original ford PWR steering setup. I have had the steering box, slave, and power steering pump all rebuilt (pump twice).

 

I'm not completely satisfied but it will do for now.

 

It whines when trying to turn from a dead stop which I have been told to expect.

 

But my question is when cruising at 50-60, there is some slight looseness in the feel of the steering wheel. Not significant or scary but its there. If the car wanders out of my lane, it seems I have to make a significant (compared to modern day cars) adjustment.

 

My other classic has non-power steering so it is not a good comparison.

 

Is there any adjustment in the steering box to make? Should I expect this also?

[LindenBruce 27]

Yes, the steering box has an adjustment on it. You will see a set screw locked down by a slim nut. I think it's on the top of the box. A basic shop manual should be able to tell you how to adjust it. It doesn't take much. B.

[LindenBruce 27]

Yes, the steering box has an adjustment on it. You will see a set screw locked down by a slim nut. I think it's on the top of the box. A basic shop manual should be able to tell you how to adjust it. It doesn't take much. B.

[Big Secz 26]

If you're comparing your steering to modern day cars, you're never going to be satisfied with the original Mustang PS setup. First is to note that the power steering on modern cars adjusts automatically based on driving conditions of the car. For example you mentioned that when cruising at highway speeds you have to adjust more than in modern cars. That is because at those speeds power steering assists in modern cars is reduced making the steering more responsive and tighter. Not the case in these old cars. The power steering always has a little play in it no matter what you do. You mentioned that you replaced all the PS components, you next step should be to look at ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, and idler arm bushings.

[Big Secz 26]

If you're comparing your steering to modern day cars, you're never going to be satisfied with the original Mustang PS setup. First is to note that the power steering on modern cars adjusts automatically based on driving conditions of the car. For example you mentioned that when cruising at highway speeds you have to adjust more than in modern cars. That is because at those speeds power steering assists in modern cars is reduced making the steering more responsive and tighter. Not the case in these old cars. The power steering always has a little play in it no matter what you do. You mentioned that you replaced all the PS components, you next step should be to look at ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, and idler arm bushings.

[Jimjific 23]

I agree with Big Secz. A steering box will never be as good as a modern rack system. Also, be careful with the adjusting screw. A steering box will typically have a dead spot at the top of the wheel this is because that is the area in the gear box that gets used the most. Worm gears wear faster than racks because the worm slides along the gear it is driving vs. rolling like it does in a rack. If you adjust out the play at the dead spot you run the risk that you will be to tight on the ends of the steering motion.

 

This is why I put a rack in my car.

 

Jim

[Jimjific 23]

I agree with Big Secz. A steering box will never be as good as a modern rack system. Also, be careful with the adjusting screw. A steering box will typically have a dead spot at the top of the wheel this is because that is the area in the gear box that gets used the most. Worm gears wear faster than racks because the worm slides along the gear it is driving vs. rolling like it does in a rack. If you adjust out the play at the dead spot you run the risk that you will be to tight on the ends of the steering motion.

 

This is why I put a rack in my car.

 

Jim

[Brian Conway 264]

I don't have power assist on my 69. I did have Power steering on a 66 I once had. Some of the things I learned from that car was an often over looked assembly is the Ball stud and its components; socket, seats and spring. The tension applied to the BALL STUD post is very important and that is not stressed enough. The control valve also has a small tensioning spring also very important. If you wiggle the steering wheel, engine running, without the tires moving and the ball stud is moving that contributes to ' wander '. Brian

Edited October 25, 2014 by Brian Conway

[Brian Conway 264]

I don't have power assist on my 69. I did have Power steering on a 66 I once had. Some of the things I learned from that car was an often over looked assembly is the Ball stud and its components; socket, seats and spring. The tension applied to the BALL STUD post is very important and that is not stressed enough. The control valve also has a small tensioning spring also very important. If you wiggle the steering wheel, engine running, without the tires moving and the ball stud is moving that contributes to ' wander '. Brian

Edited October 25, 2014 by Brian Conway

[barnett468 418]

hello

 

ok

 

1. your pump should not whine ever...if someone tells you it was that way from the factory they are...well...WRONG.

 

2. you cannot properly rebuild a steering box unless new gears are installed which are no longer available for your car as far as i know so getting one with worn gears is a waste of money imo and i find it odd that some people that rebuild these don't tell the customer this..

 

3. start the car and grab the rag connector on the box and rotate it back and forth around 1/4 turn in each direction and watch the pitman arm. if the arm does not move, the box needs adjustment or the gears are worn out.

 

4. IF your suspension is in perfect condition, then the wandering is likely caused by a bad or incorrectly rebuilt ps control valve. i had this prob many times. the steering on these cars is not sloppy when it is correct, however, the ratio is slightly slower than new cars.

Edited October 25, 2014 by barnett468

[barnett468 418]

hello

 

ok

 

1. your pump should not whine ever...if someone tells you it was that way from the factory they are...well...WRONG.

 

2. you cannot properly rebuild a steering box unless new gears are installed which are no longer available for your car as far as i know so getting one with worn gears is a waste of money imo and i find it odd that some people that rebuild these don't tell the customer this..

 

3. start the car and grab the rag connector on the box and rotate it back and forth around 1/4 turn in each direction and watch the pitman arm. if the arm does not move, the box needs adjustment or the gears are worn out.

 

4. IF your suspension is in perfect condition, then the wandering is likely caused by a bad or incorrectly rebuilt ps control valve. i had this prob many times. the steering on these cars is not sloppy when it is correct, however, the ratio is slightly slower than new cars.

Edited October 25, 2014 by barnett468

[1969_Mach1 333]

69volunteer.

 

Its true that the worm, worm nut, and sector gears wear and are not available new so a rebuilt steering box will never be as good as new. But sometimes its the best you can do. If you want to adjust your steering box read through the procedure in the Ford service manual first. The gears in steering boxes are designed to have an interference fit with a slight preload when centered (front wheels positioned straight ahead) there should be zero "play" plus a slight preload at that position. Also, the worm shaft bearings need to be preloaded.

 

If your steering box and linkage are okay, a common cause of looseness and wandering is the control valve assembly. If you study the design of it you will understand why. The ball stud that connects the control valve assembly to the steering arm moves side to side slightly to operate the valve inside the control valve assembly that directs hydraulic fluid to the assist cylinder. When you turn the steering wheel an initial very small amount of your turning of the wheel is used to move this valve which feels like looseness in the steering. Visa-versa as you drive and the wheels hit a bump the steering linkage moves a small amount, since you are holding the steering wheel fixed the ball stud momentarily moves the valve inside the control valve assembly a bit redirecting fluid causing a wander that you need to correct for.

 

I rebuilt the steering box in my Mach 1 and it works fine. But I also removed the PS for the reasons you are describing.

 

The last but simple item I am aware of that causes wander at the speeds you mention is not enough positive caster in the front wheel alignment. I think I would check that first so you know its correct, unless you know of worn items in the steering linkage.

Edited October 26, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[1969_Mach1 333]

69volunteer.

 

Its true that the worm, worm nut, and sector gears wear and are not available new so a rebuilt steering box will never be as good as new. But sometimes its the best you can do. If you want to adjust your steering box read through the procedure in the Ford service manual first. The gears in steering boxes are designed to have an interference fit with a slight preload when centered (front wheels positioned straight ahead) there should be zero "play" plus a slight preload at that position. Also, the worm shaft bearings need to be preloaded.

 

If your steering box and linkage are okay, a common cause of looseness and wandering is the control valve assembly. If you study the design of it you will understand why. The ball stud that connects the control valve assembly to the steering arm moves side to side slightly to operate the valve inside the control valve assembly that directs hydraulic fluid to the assist cylinder. When you turn the steering wheel an initial very small amount of your turning of the wheel is used to move this valve which feels like looseness in the steering. Visa-versa as you drive and the wheels hit a bump the steering linkage moves a small amount, since you are holding the steering wheel fixed the ball stud momentarily moves the valve inside the control valve assembly a bit redirecting fluid causing a wander that you need to correct for.

 

I rebuilt the steering box in my Mach 1 and it works fine. But I also removed the PS for the reasons you are describing.

 

The last but simple item I am aware of that causes wander at the speeds you mention is not enough positive caster in the front wheel alignment. I think I would check that first so you know its correct, unless you know of worn items in the steering linkage.

Edited October 26, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[70769 18]

I have posted multiple threads about my original ford PWR steering setup. I have had the steering box, slave, and power steering pump all rebuilt (pump twice).

 

I'm not completely satisfied but it will do for now.

 

It whines when trying to turn from a dead stop which I have been told to expect.

But my question is when cruising at 50-60, there is some slight looseness in the feel of the steering wheel. Not significant or scary but its there. If the car wanders out of my lane, it seems I have to make a significant (compared to modern day cars) adjustment.

 

My other classic has non-power steering so it is not a good comparison.

 

Is there any adjustment in the steering box to make? Should I expect this also?

 

I too have the wandering at cruising speeds. I had adjusted the crew on top of the box and that helped also, last time i had my car aligned i had them add about a degree of caster and that helped. Before those changes my car was down right scary to drive.

[70769 18]

I have posted multiple threads about my original ford PWR steering setup. I have had the steering box, slave, and power steering pump all rebuilt (pump twice).

 

I'm not completely satisfied but it will do for now.

 

It whines when trying to turn from a dead stop which I have been told to expect.

But my question is when cruising at 50-60, there is some slight looseness in the feel of the steering wheel. Not significant or scary but its there. If the car wanders out of my lane, it seems I have to make a significant (compared to modern day cars) adjustment.

 

My other classic has non-power steering so it is not a good comparison.

 

Is there any adjustment in the steering box to make? Should I expect this also?

 

I too have the wandering at cruising speeds. I had adjusted the crew on top of the box and that helped also, last time i had my car aligned i had them add about a degree of caster and that helped. Before those changes my car was down right scary to drive.

[Max Power 74]

One more vote for the PS control valve.

 

Flaming River has sold a million steering boxes to people who thought that the steering box was where the slop is, and usually it isn't.

[Max Power 74]

One more vote for the PS control valve.

 

Flaming River has sold a million steering boxes to people who thought that the steering box was where the slop is, and usually it isn't.

[bryonbush 85]

hopefully this will help. My steering was very loose and i would dangeriously wander on the road. starting from the treering wheel and working my way down, i checked the box play, rag joint, pitmann arms, tie rods and all seemed okay. last month I put on new ball joints, lower controll arms and sway bar bushings and i no longer drift. if your PS set up in freshly rebuilt, i would strongly encourage you to look at the things i replaced and think about doing it yourself. When was the last time your allignment was done? seriously man, really give your ball joints, LC/UCA, and tie rods a good look over. I was about to drop $1500 on a R&P i was so tired of it till i read about crappy joints and control arms. glad i didnt

 

hope this helps

[bryonbush 85]

hopefully this will help. My steering was very loose and i would dangeriously wander on the road. starting from the treering wheel and working my way down, i checked the box play, rag joint, pitmann arms, tie rods and all seemed okay. last month I put on new ball joints, lower controll arms and sway bar bushings and i no longer drift. if your PS set up in freshly rebuilt, i would strongly encourage you to look at the things i replaced and think about doing it yourself. When was the last time your allignment was done? seriously man, really give your ball joints, LC/UCA, and tie rods a good look over. I was about to drop $1500 on a R&P i was so tired of it till i read about crappy joints and control arms. glad i didnt

 

hope this helps

[69volunteer 84]

Ball joints, LC arms are all new as well as tie rod ends. I'll look at some of the things above and report back.

 

Its not dangerous or scary, just a little loose at speed--which I guess could be dangerous.

 

It was aligned early on in the restoration (over a year ago) so probably should have that looked at as well.

 

Thanks everyone.

[69volunteer 84]

Ball joints, LC arms are all new as well as tie rod ends. I'll look at some of the things above and report back.

 

Its not dangerous or scary, just a little loose at speed--which I guess could be dangerous.

 

It was aligned early on in the restoration (over a year ago) so probably should have that looked at as well.

 

Thanks everyone.

[barnett468 418]

grab the idler arm and try to push up and pull down on it . . if it moves more than a hair, it is bad and will cause wandering.

 

look at the rubber bushings in the end of the power steering ram . . if they are loose or missing it will cause probs.

[barnett468 418]

grab the idler arm and try to push up and pull down on it . . if it moves more than a hair, it is bad and will cause wandering.

 

look at the rubber bushings in the end of the power steering ram . . if they are loose or missing it will cause probs.

[69volunteer 84]

ok, i'll check all of this over the weekend. Idler arm is new too.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.