Complete 302 engine rebuild needed

[schweigert 13]

So I took my recently purchased 69 coupe with a Windsor 302 to a mechanic to check out the leaky seals it seemed to be having (and knocking noise) - and he ended up pulling the whole engine out and tearing it down - almost majority of parts need to be replaced - major sludge on everything and rust from running only water coolant that probably was sitting in there for 10 years

 

All said and done with new parts and machining the block I'm looking at $4500 - what I'm promised and warrantied to be a new bulletproof motor

 

 

He's all on about it's the better option as we will know the motor will be strong - but at that price point I'd almost rather just grab a motor AND Trans out of a fox body or something for 25% of the cost - (I've been wanted to do a t5 swap with it)

 

 

My end goal is just a daily driver - so my questions are

 

1- is that a fair rebuild price?

 

 

2 - is putting in a newer used motor a better option

[9RO1M 12]

That seems reasonable.Did he ask you before he pulled the whole thing down?Have to ask,was he referred to you?Alot of the time we dont always get what we pay for.Bullet proof is a stretch,strong maybe..Might pay to ask on this forum if anyone knows of a good mechanic in your area.Infact ask here for everything before you jump in as there is a wealth of knowledge that will save you time and alot of cash.Thats not to say your guy isnt any good but word of mouth is peace of mind.As for a second hand engine,be very careful as you don't know what your getting no matter what the seller say's.How hard was the engine driven?how many miles ?etc.You still might have to recondition in the end and who needs the extra cost and stress,might cost you double in the long run.The dream ends right there for some.Unless your cashed up keep it simple,find a good mechanic and recondition your engine put in a bit of a cam, good manifold extractors and your good to go, look after it and it will look after you.Good luck.

Edited March 7, 2014 by 9RO1M

[schweigert 13]

Thanks for the reply

 

The seller told me the car was made into a desert racer in Nevada - cut out the power steering and AC. Also said the engine was rebuilt 100k miles ago

 

The body is perfect though - only a little rust in the battery tray - but this rebuild will bring my total "initial" cost to 14k (which is basically everything being replaced down to the tail lights)

 

 

 

Anyway - I told the mechanic to pull it as I wanted him to check the insides since it was leaking -

 

But to the good points you bring up - yes I should take this opportunity to maybe upgrade the internals - are there "go-to" reasonable upgrades everyone prefers?

[1969Fstback 58]

Does the 302 happen to be the original serial number matching engine to the car?

[PaleRider 12]

seems expensive to me. Albeit never paid for rebuild - either bought used or crate (302 out of fox body 1500 and a fordstroker a few years back $5k). You can get a nice crate motor for that kind of money that may have little more HP. I'd consider buying the ford racing 306 and pulling your parts off current motor and putting on that (timing cover, pump, pan, etc.).

http://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-306ci-crate-engine.html?utm_content=Engine+-+Crate+Engine%7CFord+Racing&utm_campaign=Category+%2F+ProductName&utm_source=Google-pla&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=&AMID=frpp-306ci-crate-engine-GSNoFitmentV1&adtype=pla

[shaun071 62]

A crate motor would be a bit cheaper.I would think the price quoted is probably about right considering you are paying for labor to remove, strip and refit your engine. Labor charges aren't cheap!! Last engine I rebuilt (a 351C) cost me $2800 in parts and machine work and I assembled it myself. Granted that was 10 years ago and in Australia.

[69gmachine 15]

If you have the tools and are willing to do the work yourself, you could start with something like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-302-306-SHORT-BLOCK-350HP-ENGINE-MOTOR-MUSTANG-/131129315763?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e87ea91b3&vxp=mtr#ht_4501wt_1223

[Rsanter 152]

What do,you want to do,with the car?

To me that seems high but I'm not used to paying for labor,as,I do all my own work.

I would,price some crate engines and think about ordering one of those.

 

The late model pull out is a great idea but those cars are so old at this point odds are you will need to do a rebuild on that engine as well. Now if you can find one in reasonable shape or has been rebuilt and strip it for parts then you are good to go

 

If you want more power I would be looking to,a stroker motor. Go 331 not the 347. The 331 does not put the wrist pin into the ring lands so it will be longer lived

 

Bob

[skidmarky 50]

Does that price include the labor for removal and install? If so, probably not too bad. Keep in mind if you buy a crate motor, there is work/labor involved in getting it ready and installed.

[69volunteer 84]

Ouch. That seems like a lot to me. I had mine completely rebuilt, new rings, seals, pistons, cam, valve guides, new springs, valves, etc. I upped the cam but not by much. Its not a high power performance build and i added intake, water pump, etc. and installed it myself. But they did everything for $1000 + my core.

 

Not sure where you are located

 

http://www.citymotorsupply.com/cms-product-descriptions.php

 

Click on domestic engines catalog lower right corner

[schweigert 13]

Hi guys- thanks for the responses

 

 

I want it to be a solid daily driver (but still fun)

 

Im actually not sure if the engine serial matches the car - i'll check that.

 

 

the mechanic was under the impression that you couldn't buy a crate motor from ford - that GM did that, not ford.

 

 

the price included labor - I have the breakdown on a piece of paper that I'll post later tonight.

 

but im looking at crates now - i imagine with something like this I'd be better off?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpe-hp06/overview/make/ford

Edited March 7, 2014 by schweigert

[TexasEd 191]

If I were in your shoes I'd be using the opportunity to move to a 351W based engine.

[schweigert 13]

Other than power - is 351 more dependable? Also would a t5 still bolt up to it?

 

Here's the breakdown he gave me

 

Timing cover - 198

Water pump - 178

Water outlet - 16

T-stat and seal - 28

Coolant - 40

Master overhaul kit - 474

Intake manifold - 229

Starter motor - 133

2 motor mounts - 38

Set head bolts - 72

 

Complete machining - 1118

 

Labor - 1520

 

 

 

 

And then also

Radiator - 389

Hoses - 84

Heater hoses - 38

[9RO1M 12]

Pistons and cam are not on the list.What kind of manifold has he quoted you for?...$389 for a radiator ?..Alarms bells are ringing for me as he tells you that you cant buy a Ford crate engine.I assumed you were getting a fully recondioned engine what you are quoted for is a rebuild as far as i can see..I would go for or a reputable engine builder maybe one who deals in High performance engines who knows his shi7 is relatively local so that if there is any problems its easy deal with rather than sending of a crate engine to the other side of the country with issues..Most crates are perfect but they arnt infallible.Check with your local Mustang club im sure they can point you in the right direction regarding Mechanics.

[schweigert 13]

Pistons and cam are not on the list.What kind of manifold has he quoted you for?...$389 for a radiator ?..Alarms bells are ringing for me as he tells you that you cant buy a Ford crate engine.I assumed you were getting a fully recondioned engine what you are quoted for is a rebuild as far as i can see..I would go for or a reputable engine builder maybe one who deals in High performance engines who knows his shi7 is relatively local so that if there is any problems its easy deal with rather than sending of a crate engine to the other side of the country with issues..Most crates are perfect but they arnt infallible.Check with your local Mustang club im sure they can point you in the right direction regarding Mechanics.

 

 

 

yeah i just "assumed" that the pistons and rings etc was whats included in the master overhaul kit - but now im not sure.

 

 

the only thing that really did throw an alarm to me was the radiator price

 

 

 

 

 

the only "decently" priced crate motors I can find online that aren't just straight out racing engine <$4k are from summit -

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpe-hp06/overview/make/ford

 

all ones from shops in socal are like 8k and higher -

 

also this place has decently priced turnkey motors - but not local either

http://www.phoenixengine.com/Ford-04.html

Edited March 8, 2014 by schweigert

[JayEstes 173]

here is what my completely stock rebuild of my 302 cost me:

 

It was done is TX near houston, by an engine shop for racing engines with a good reputation.

 

You should be able to use the info to compare costs. Hope it makes it clearer for you.

 

For me? The whole deal was $2900.

 

Jay

[9RO1M 12]

here is what my completely stock rebuild of my 302 cost me:

 

It was done is TX near houston, by an engine shop for racing engines with a good reputation.

 

You should be able to use the info to compare costs. Hope it makes it clearer for you.

 

For me? The whole deal was $2900.

 

Jay

This looks really good.

[TexasEd 191]

Other than power - is 351 more dependable? Also would a t5 still bolt up to it?

 

 

If you're not concerned about originality and pulling the engine and radiator I'd look into it. Maybe swap out the passenger side radiator for a cross flow since you're doing the radiator and water pump at the same time.

 

Most accessories for the 302 and 351W are interchangeable so the swap is not supposed to be too bad. I think the transmission might be a direct match.

[schweigert 13]

damn these are some expensive radiators

 

http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/cooling-heating/part-type/radiators/year/1969/make/ford/model/mustang/engine-size/5-8l-351/radiator-style/crossflow

[TexasEd 191]

I'm talking about a radiator with the input and output hoses on opposite sides of the radiator, not a brand, sorry.

 

For 69 302s the input and output are on the same side of the radiator. They changed that in 1970.

[schweigert 13]

pulled the trigger - $3,400 delivered

 

http://www.phoenixengine.com/Ford-04.html

 

 

now i gotta find a radiator

[DarkBuddha 107]

Let us know how that goes with Phoenix Engines... I was tempted by their offerings, but ended up going another way. Still, might consider them for the next project.

[LSG 15]

Schw, glad you picked something else--your original guy seemed way too high, and not enough information. What intake was he going with for 229 ? What timing cover for 129 ( ! ) ? I will ask you, however to consider NOT using the distributor that the Phoenix builds are showing. Those are aftermarket copies of a Chevy distributor, and they frequently have an interference with the intake runners on a Ford engine. They also don't appear to have a vacuum advance, which you need for street driving. I would recommend a Duraspark dizzy and whatever else you need to make that work (It is not hard ) and a Weiand street warrior 8124 for a mellow but fun 302. LSG

[schweigert 13]

Schw, glad you picked something else--your original guy seemed way too high, and not enough information. What intake was he going with for 229 ? What timing cover for 129 ( ! ) ? I will ask you, however to consider NOT using the distributor that the Phoenix builds are showing. Those are aftermarket copies of a Chevy distributor, and they frequently have an interference with the intake runners on a Ford engine. They also don't appear to have a vacuum advance, which you need for street driving. I would recommend a Duraspark dizzy and whatever else you need to make that work (It is not hard ) and a Weiand street warrior 8124 for a mellow but fun 302. LSG

 

 

oh wow - thanks for the heads up!

 

 

so one of these?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEEL-GEAR-FORD-DURASPARK-DISTRIBUTOR-289-302-mustang-F100-capri-tbird-fairmont-/300928668266?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4610bf126a&vxp=mtr

 

 

also you think i should get a different intake manifold?