351 Cleveland out of a Pantera

[Maui Shtang 10]

Here is the second question.

My son wants a true muscle car and we have been looking here on the Island. We came across a body shop that has a 351 Cleveland from a Pantera. I have researched all over the net but not much to find regarding this engine and what it will cost to rebuild and make fit into this 69 coup. The stock engine is a 250 in line 6 so I already assume we will need to beef up the suspension to handle the extra weight.

Whats your thoughts

[RogerC 136]

You'll need sbf V8 chassis motor mounts. The 351C uses windsor sbf engine motor mounts. Also you'll want a trans with windsor sbf bolt pattern. 70s came with 351C so anything engine related buy for a 70. Don't recall if panteras have a front sump oil pan but you'll need one if it doesn't and the correct pickup (for a 70 mustang w/351C).

 

2 great online sources for 351C information:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/

http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums

 

351Cs are a different animal than sbc or sbf. To build right it just takes attention to its peculiarities. They're not that expensive to build reliable stock and mild performance levels. Whatever you do don't listen to a chevy guy on how to build the engine unless he has lots of cleveland building experience too. You'll know what I mean once you get digging.

Edited April 30, 2013 by RacerX

[grendi 16]

he already has a trans with a sbf bolt patterna as L and C code share the same trans, front and rear axle.

 

if it's a C4 it might need some internal upgrades and if it's a 3 gear manual i would swap it for a T-5 if you drop in the 351C.

the 8" rearend might be on the weak side as well for an underrated 330 hp pantera engine.

[Maui Shtang 10]

So what is your thoughts on installing the 351, we just found a 66 coup that is is very sad shape but has a running 302, I'm going to try to upload pictures of it now.

So the new question: Is it worth the extra cost to rebuild the 351c which will require changes to suspension and or trans. Or would you rebuild the 302 and go with that.

 

Thanks for the help, we are pretty green at this.

[Maui Shtang 10]

Here are a few pics of the 66 coup we found, the guy wants $600

We are thinking of buying it and using the 302 which still runs.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Doing a swap from 6 to 8 cyl will require suspension, brakes, rearend, cooling and a assorted pile of other parts to complete it correctly.

Best way to make your mind up on doing this job is jotting it down on paper first.

Figure on starting with a bare body and building it back from that point.

Once you have the list of required parts for the swap, start another colume of int and body parts you need or want.

Then you will have a realistic view on the cost involved. :crying:

[Burn 14]

Hi Maui, Is it a 200ci 6cyl car with a 302 (or 289) or is it a 289 car with a 289 or 302 in it? Since its got a good 289 or 302, I would keep it. A 351C will cost you twice as much to rebuild as a 289/302 or 351W...Ask me how I know this.

[grendi 16]

Doing a swap from 6 to 8 cyl will require suspension, brakes, rearend, cooling and a assorted pile of other parts to complete it correctly.

 

BULLSHIT!

 

if he has the L-Code (250cid), a A or C-Code (289/302cid) is a direct swap, as he already has the 5 lug wheels, the 8" rearend etc. etc. etc.

even the springs are correct, as long as he doesn't have AC and the car was made after 9/11/68 :detective:

 

however, it would be true for the T-Code (200cid)

[PaoloMach1 11]

how ask for the 351C? if it is an original Pantera engine is quite wanted

[Burn 14]

Maui, My bad! I confused your OP with the pictures of the '65 Mustang with the V8. Anyway, I agree with grendi!

[LoneWolf2U 136]

BULLSHIT!

 

if he has the L-Code (250cid), a A or C-Code (289/302cid) is a direct swap, as he already has the 5 lug wheels, the 8" rearend etc. etc. etc.

even the springs are correct, as long as he doesn't have AC and the car was made after 9/11/68 :detective:

 

however, it would be true for the T-Code (200cid)

 

 

:nono:... With the info posted and question asked, Tossing a 351C into a 6cyl setup it will need to be upgraded.

[Maui Shtang 10]

Thanks to both of you. It seems we are now leaning towards buying the 66 with the 302 which I have been told was not available in 66, the guy wants $600 so it seems worth the risk.

If all else fails we can hold it as our second project.

 

BTW the Pantera 351c owner wants $2k so that is out of the question.

[jholmes217 65]

Thanks to both of you. It seems we are now leaning towards buying the 66 with the 302 which I have been told was not available in 66, the guy wants $600 so it seems worth the risk.

If all else fails we can hold it as our second project.

 

BTW the Pantera 351c owner wants $2k so that is out of the question.

 

If he has a numbers matching, all original Pantera 351, he will get at least that from a Pantera owner looking for a new or spare engine.

[1969vert 55]

Just make sure the 66 has a 6 bolt bellhousing...then all will fit...if for some reason it is still a 5 bolt bellhousing it might be a early 289...still will work but harder to find parts for..but 6 bolt sky is the limit...enjoy..

[grendi 16]

:nono:... With the info posted and question asked, Tossing a 351C into a 6cyl setup it will need to be upgraded.

 

@Mach1Rider may i remind you of your statement:

"Doing a swap from 6 to 8 cyl will require suspension, brakes, rearend, cooling and a assorted pile of other parts to complete it correctly."

 

tossing a 351C into a 302 V8 body would need the exact same upgrades except for the motormounts....

 

and just for the record, you could order a 428CJ with the same 5 lug drum brakes that were common on the L-Code, even though i wouldn't consider that a good combination.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

I will stand behind my statement, To do it correctly.

Yes drum brakes were common on these cars, But with the larger engines the size of the brakes increased. The 6cyl models had smaller shoes/drums and the big block had wider shoes/drums with 5 lug hubs.

[grendi 16]

I will stand behind my statement, To do it correctly.

Yes drum brakes were common on these cars, But with the larger engines the size of the brakes increased. The 6cyl models had smaller shoes/drums and the big block had wider shoes/drums with 5 lug hubs.

 

just checked Ford Car Shop Manual 1969 and you finally got at least something right, they did use different drum brakes on the 351+ models in 1969, but then your already wrong again because 250 (i6) and 302 (v8) share the same 5-lug brakes. (Page 2-3-2)

[Pakrat 1,043]

All right guys, if you want to continue the debate lets take it to PM's and not muck up the new guys thread anymore OK.