VIN Engine Code Confusion

[jfried 13]

Hi Everyone,

 

First post here, i'm actually looking at buying a 1969 Mustang Convertible... and have run into an interesting question. The current owner has had it for about about 12 years, and he had it restored close to 10 years ago. He has a ton of pictures and reciepts from the restoration. He claims that when it was a v6, and he's upfront about the fact that he put a 302 in it at the time; having to swap the transmission, driveshaft, and rear axle as well to accomodate the 302. He still has the v6 engine, tranny, and DS sitting on the floor of his garage

 

Here's the interesting / confusing thing; the VIN # is 9F03F, which as far as I understand, corresponds to a 302.car. So, my thought process would be that at some point somebody blew the original 302, and replaced it with a 6... but if that were done, why would the axle need to be swapped? Adding one more layer of confusion, the Ontario (Canada) registration lists # of Cylinders as 6. So could this be an incorreclty coded car? My other thought, would be that this is a re-VINed car, but that wouldn't explain why it's listed as a 6cyl on the registration/title.

[Rsmach1 71]

1st thing I would do is verify the Vin on the door tag matches with the Vin up on the dash area. If they match I am stumped as to why the registration says it's a 6cyl car. As far as the rear end change the 6s and the reg 302 along with the 351w 2v came with an 8" rear. The Boss cars, 351w 4v,and the big blocks came with 9" rears. It's possible when the v8 was put in the owner wanted a 9". But the rear will have to be visually checked to see what it is for sure.

[det0326 179]

Also in 69 the factory stamped the vin on the passenger side fender aprons. Some were on the fender aprons and some were on the top flat part of the shock tower as well. Make sure this matches dash vin as well. This is of course if these parts has not been replaced in the past.

 

There was no such thing as a V6 engine in a 69 mustang it would have to be an I6 (inline). If it had a V6 it would have to come out of a later model ford car.

Dave

[Rsmach1 71]

You are correct Dave, an inline 6 would have been correct in 69'. As far as the Vin being stamped on the apron, Ford relocated it to the dash in 69, it wasn't stamped on the apron, however, they did place a tag, either on the passenger side near the hood hinge, or on the radiator support near the battery. Most of these get lost over the years.

[jfried 13]

Also in 69 the factory stamped the vin on the passenger side fender aprons. Some were on the fender aprons and some were on the top flat part of the shock tower as well. Make sure this matches dash vin as well. This is of course if these parts has not been replaced in the past.

 

There was no such thing as a V6 engine in a 69 mustang it would have to be an I6 (inline). If it had a V6 it would have to come out of a later model ford car.

Dave

 

Sorry about that confusion... force of habit, he has an inline 6 engine sitting on the floor. It's painted blue and looks like hell, so I had no reason to question it.

 

Looking at some youtube videos, I believe it's an 8 inch from what I remember when I looked under the car (no protrusion for ring gear).... but assuming that these VINs do all line up, what's the likely situation here?

[Rsmach1 71]

Dave I will correct myself again you are correct, the Vin was also stamped on the shock tower, pass side. My bad lol

[det0326 179]

You are correct Dave, an inline 6 would have been correct in 69'. As far as the Vin being stamped on the apron, Ford relocated it to the dash in 69, it wasn't stamped on the apron, however, they did place a tag, either on the passenger side near the hood hinge, or on the radiator support near the battery. Most of these get lost over the years.

My 69 certainly was stamped on the passenger side fender apron and part of the shock tower and I have seen others as well. In some cases the fender had to be removed to see it and It could be a Dearborn factory thing I don;t know but some are certainly there. 

 

Dave

[Rsmach1 71]

As I said in my last post, you are correct Dave. As far as determining the difference between the rear here is a link. http://www.maliburacing.com/ford_9_inch/ford_nine_inch.htm

[det0326 179]

Sorry about that confusion... force of habit, he has an inline 6 engine sitting on the floor. It's painted blue and looks like hell, so I had no reason to question it.

 

Looking at some youtube videos, I believe it's an 8 inch from what I remember when I looked under the car (no protrusion for ring gear).... but assuming that these VINs do all line up, what's the likely situation here?

The 8 and 9" rear has no rear inspection cover and the 9" has 2 bolts under the pinon that is only accessible with a wrench that is you can.t put a socket and extension on it. On the 8" you can access all bolts with socket and extension. Thats the quick and dirty way to tell but once you get use to looking at them you can usually tell just by physically looking at them.  

 

Hope this helps

Dave 

[jfried 13]

As I said in my last post, you are correct Dave. As far as determining the difference between the rear here is a link. http://www.maliburacing.com/ford_9_inch/ford_nine_inch.htm

Thanks. That's helpful and I'll keep it handy next time I go look at the car.

 

My other question is, assuming that the VIN's do match, what's the plausible story here?

[det0326 179]

As I said in my last post, you are correct Dave. As far as determining the difference between the rear here is a link. http://www.maliburacing.com/ford_9_inch/ford_nine_inch.htm

Sorry I posted that before I saw your last post. Doesn't matter anyway because as I said it could be factory related.

Dave

[det0326 179]

Thanks. That's helpful and I'll keep it handy next time I go look at the car.

 

My other question is, assuming that the VIN's do match, what's the plausible story here?

1969 F code means 302 so I would assume that in the past someone transplanted the 6 in there. 

 

Dave

 

PS   I would proceed with this cautiously and do a lot of research You don't want to put $ into it and then find out later that something is wrong with the title and vin#. Be very careful.  

[Rsmach1 71]

No worries, I was the one who misspoke, I just pulled my fenders last week and never saw it. After my post I went to the garage and hit it with a wire brush, and guess what I found...lol. Mine is a San Jose car so most probably all have it. I'm always glad to learn something new. Thank you Dave.

[jfried 13]

So, I just got off the phone with our version the DMV.

 

Apparently, they looked up the VIN in one of their systems (Veena?) and confirmed that it was an 8. It could've been changed by simply stating it was a 6 during one of the vehicle's transfers, and the government of ontario has history on it back to 1976.

 

So I guess there's one of 2 possibilities here:

 

1. The car was born a 6, re-vinned (stolen?), and sold later as a v6. When registering, somebody would've put 6cyl, and it got changed.

 

2. The 8 was replaced with a 6 way back... and then re-replaced with an 8 more recently. 

 

My first instinct, even though this guy seems quite trustworthy (an older gentleman, I saw the car at his home), is option 1 -- who replaces an 8 with a 6???

 

But, according to the dataplate, trans is 1 which would be 3 speed manual. I didn't check to see what the transmission he had on the floor was, but he did have an extra toruqe converter sitting on the shelf... obviously manual trans means no torque converter.

 

Second thought, if this car had been re-vinned, I'm assuming I should run, right? The fact that it seems he's had this car for 10 years doesn't make up for that?

 

Also, would it be possible to post pictures of exactly where I should be looking for the vin? A bit confused as to whether the passenger side fender needs to be pulled in order to see it.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I wished I could help with the vin stamping on the inner fender.  I haven't seen it on my 1969 Mach 1.  Throughout a full restoration the only two places I've seen the vin number is on the vin tag in the left front corner of the dash and on the door tag attached to the drivers door.  My car had the original inner fender panels when I got the car.  I have seen this vin stamping on earlier year Mustangs.  I wonder if it not all assembly plants stamped the vin on the inner fender panel?

[Rsmach1 71]

Maybe at some point it was registered as a 6cyl for insurance reasons? Would make sense. The Vin that Dave pointed out is on the passenger side, where the fender mounts, where the shock is. Yes the fender would most likely have to be removed.

[jfried 13]

Maybe at some point it was registered as a 6cyl for insurance reasons? Would make sense. The Vin that Dave pointed out is on the passenger side, where the fender mounts, where the shock is. Yes the fender would most likely have to be removed.

 

Ok.

 

So the VINs I'm looking for are:

 

-Driver Door Tag - verified.

 

-Tag near the passenger side hood hinge, or on the rad support near the battery.

 

-On the dash driver side (where modern cars have their vin?) -- Will it be visible without removing dash pad?

 

-One under the passenger side fender (car is in a restored condition so I doubt the fender is coming off).

[michael2938 24]

Someone wanted a mustang with better gas mileage and/or lower insurance rates.  A I6 should help that, right?

 

-Mike

[jfried 13]

Someone wanted a mustang with better gas mileage and/or lower insurance rates.  A I6 should help that, right?

 

-Mike

 

This is not a line of thinking that I can grasp.... :)

[michael2938 24]

Here's what's on my '69 F code out of Dearborn:

 

I had a tag on the radiator (can't remember if this had a VIN on it or not, but it probably did).

Vin number on the dash (drivers side)

Vin number stamped into fender apron behind shock tower -- on BOTH sides.

 

-Mike

[Rsmach1 71]

Yes where modern cars have it, looking through the windshield on the drivers side, and at least on mine the fender would have to come off for sure. Those are not my pics...

[Guillaume69 150]

VIN on fender apron (need to remove the fender to see it). Found it on both sides on my car:

 

 

VIN on dash, like you said, pretty much where they still put it on more recent vehicles:

 

 

VIN on buck tag, if it's still there. Was screwed on the radiator support on my car:

 

[det0326 179]

I don't think there is a rhyme or reason what area the # is stamped on the right fender apron. I have seen some with the first few #'s on the shock tower and the last few on the front fender apron. I have seen some with # stamped only on shock tower with part of it under where the apron laps over the shock tower.  Some are partially visible without removing the fender but I have never seen one that you could read the whole # without removing some parts anyway. I guess it depends on what  day it was stamped.  Hence, Monday= still hung over from the weekend.

 

Dave

[Rsmach1 71]

And Friday=can't wait to prep for the hangover on Monday, I have a Friday car 😕

[barnett468 418]

.

vin is under the fender lip on the top of the shock tower or just forward of the shock tower on the passenger side. you can typically remove the 4 center fender bolts and gently pry the fender up and see them with a mag lite.

 

the window tag was held on with pop rivets in 69. in 70 it had special "rosette" rivets that are not possible to fake.

 

i would never buy a revined car.