Manual Or Power Rack

[Lil John SVT 27]

I'm gathering parts for my car. The stock power steering is shot. To the point I can't drive it. I talked to another classic mustang owner that swapped to a rack and pinion. He said he did away with the power steering and went with a manual rack and pinion. He stated that the steering isn't that hard to turn.

So now I'm wondering if it's worth doing away with the power steering and going manual. I know there's a big price difference. I have a 351w in the car. I know a big block would be hard to turn with the extra weight. What you think?

[Lil John SVT 27]

I'm gathering parts for my car. The stock power steering is shot. To the point I can't drive it. I talked to another classic mustang owner that swapped to a rack and pinion. He said he did away with the power steering and went with a manual rack and pinion. He stated that the steering isn't that hard to turn.

So now I'm wondering if it's worth doing away with the power steering and going manual. I know there's a big price difference. I have a 351w in the car. I know a big block would be hard to turn with the extra weight. What you think?

[SA69mach 39]

R&P steering is over-rated. I have had two cars converted and they are not as good as I expected.

Borgeson power boxes seem to be ok but lack the 'return to center' that you would expect.

Might pay to call Dan at Chockostang before giving up on your stock power steering. Nice guy, very good with all things brakes, engine and especially PS for early Mustangs. His rebuilds are as good as anyone.

 

I have a Mach 1 with stock PS, and I think what I need is a 1 inch smaller steering wheel. I just cant take the plunge and take out the oem wheel with rim blow, since it is in good condition and works perfectly. But the steering is very slow.

 

If your linkages are undamaged, and it is just your steering ram or hoses or pump that are bad, I recommend you consider a quality rebuild of your PS components and rebuild your front end, and smaller 14 inch steering wheel before going R&P.

[SA69mach 39]

R&P steering is over-rated. I have had two cars converted and they are not as good as I expected.

Borgeson power boxes seem to be ok but lack the 'return to center' that you would expect.

Might pay to call Dan at Chockostang before giving up on your stock power steering. Nice guy, very good with all things brakes, engine and especially PS for early Mustangs. His rebuilds are as good as anyone.

 

I have a Mach 1 with stock PS, and I think what I need is a 1 inch smaller steering wheel. I just cant take the plunge and take out the oem wheel with rim blow, since it is in good condition and works perfectly. But the steering is very slow.

 

If your linkages are undamaged, and it is just your steering ram or hoses or pump that are bad, I recommend you consider a quality rebuild of your PS components and rebuild your front end, and smaller 14 inch steering wheel before going R&P.

[barnett468 418]

plus 10 . . fix your power steering and other worn parts.

[barnett468 418]

plus 10 . . fix your power steering and other worn parts.

[Lil John SVT 27]

My steering box is shot. Tried to tighten it up and all it did was make it harder to turn and didn't take any slack out of the steering. I want to drive the car so bad but it's impossible with almost a half turn of the wheel in slack. With my hand at the 12 o'clock position, I can go from 3 to 9 without moving the wheels.

[Lil John SVT 27]

My steering box is shot. Tried to tighten it up and all it did was make it harder to turn and didn't take any slack out of the steering. I want to drive the car so bad but it's impossible with almost a half turn of the wheel in slack. With my hand at the 12 o'clock position, I can go from 3 to 9 without moving the wheels.

[1969_Mach1 333]

I agree, fix your power steering. I don't understand the hype of rack and pinion conversions. When restoring mine I also replaced center link, idler arm and steering arm necessary to properly convert it to manual steering. At least on a 351W car, with the 15" diameter OEM steering wheel they are easier to turn than you'd expect. Just use common sense and do not try to turn the steering wheel when stopped. If you do, you'll quickly realize the strain the P/S system endures when people do that, not good. I saved all the power steering components so I return to power steering if I want to.

 

Don't forget to rebuild the steering box as well. These are fairly easy to rebuild. Even though only the bearings and seals are available, and it won't quite like new, it will help. If you are unsure how to do it, get a copy of the reproduction original Ford service manuals and follow the procedures in them. Actually, you should have those service manuals anyway.

Edited December 17, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[1969_Mach1 333]

I agree, fix your power steering. I don't understand the hype of rack and pinion conversions. When restoring mine I also replaced center link, idler arm and steering arm necessary to properly convert it to manual steering. At least on a 351W car, with the 15" diameter OEM steering wheel they are easier to turn than you'd expect. Just use common sense and do not try to turn the steering wheel when stopped. If you do, you'll quickly realize the strain the P/S system endures when people do that, not good. I saved all the power steering components so I return to power steering if I want to.

 

Don't forget to rebuild the steering box as well. These are fairly easy to rebuild. Even though only the bearings and seals are available, and it won't quite like new, it will help. If you are unsure how to do it, get a copy of the reproduction original Ford service manuals and follow the procedures in them. Actually, you should have those service manuals anyway.

Edited December 17, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[SA69mach 39]

Sounds like your steering box is shot. Like I said, I recommend Dan with that. He is honest and does good work. What more can you ask for.

 

No steering wheel should have that much slack.

 

One last point about PS - You will find the turning circle is larger(worse) with almost every R&P on the market. Like it or not, the factory steering set up, either manual or PS, is better in many ways than aftermarket R&P. I know from experience.

 

If it is not as precise as you like, then rebuild your linkages, ball joints, idler/pitman arms and then assess it. I have rebuilt a horrible 70 coupe and it was like a new car - steering and handling was improved beyond my wildest expectations.

 

The steering you describe indicates a major problem, or lots of moderate problems all combined.

[SA69mach 39]

Sounds like your steering box is shot. Like I said, I recommend Dan with that. He is honest and does good work. What more can you ask for.

 

No steering wheel should have that much slack.

 

One last point about PS - You will find the turning circle is larger(worse) with almost every R&P on the market. Like it or not, the factory steering set up, either manual or PS, is better in many ways than aftermarket R&P. I know from experience.

 

If it is not as precise as you like, then rebuild your linkages, ball joints, idler/pitman arms and then assess it. I have rebuilt a horrible 70 coupe and it was like a new car - steering and handling was improved beyond my wildest expectations.

 

The steering you describe indicates a major problem, or lots of moderate problems all combined.

[SM69Mach 68]

I guess I am the odd man out on this topic :whistling:

 

I had a non power step up before with a big block and it SUCKED all the way around. Now granted the steering box probably could have used a rebuild, but all other parts have been replaced with new parts. I have since converted to a unisteer PS rack and absolutely love it. I haven't noticed the turning radius issues that many have mentioned and certainly don't feel like I have been to the gym after driving the car any more either. To me the car feels safer and easier to drive with the new set up I have.

 

Like most have said the stock set up works well, but for me it was no comparison the difference.

[SM69Mach 68]

I guess I am the odd man out on this topic :whistling:

 

I had a non power step up before with a big block and it SUCKED all the way around. Now granted the steering box probably could have used a rebuild, but all other parts have been replaced with new parts. I have since converted to a unisteer PS rack and absolutely love it. I haven't noticed the turning radius issues that many have mentioned and certainly don't feel like I have been to the gym after driving the car any more either. To me the car feels safer and easier to drive with the new set up I have.

 

Like most have said the stock set up works well, but for me it was no comparison the difference.

[Rsanter 152]

I am not a fan of the rack and pinion swaps. I used the CPP power box and I have no problems with return to center. I did have to dent my shock tower a bit which I did not like doing.

I have good and decent used steering boxes if you need them

 

Bob

[Rsanter 152]

I am not a fan of the rack and pinion swaps. I used the CPP power box and I have no problems with return to center. I did have to dent my shock tower a bit which I did not like doing.

I have good and decent used steering boxes if you need them

 

Bob

[lanky 44]

I have a 351w with manual steering setup right now, and I am switching it over to borgeson soon because the steering effort is ridiculous. I have a 14" steering wheel, but my tires are inflated to near max psi and it is a bear. I am 6'4 so I'm not weak either. I have heard about the returning issue with borgeson setups, and it seems like some people have the issue and some don't. I know one thing, parking or driving in neighborhoods sucks right now...its that hard.

[lanky 44]

I have a 351w with manual steering setup right now, and I am switching it over to borgeson soon because the steering effort is ridiculous. I have a 14" steering wheel, but my tires are inflated to near max psi and it is a bear. I am 6'4 so I'm not weak either. I have heard about the returning issue with borgeson setups, and it seems like some people have the issue and some don't. I know one thing, parking or driving in neighborhoods sucks right now...its that hard.

[barnett468 418]

ok, i would switch to a borgensen before i installed a rack however, the borgensen has no "automatic" return to center which some people hate . . you can increase the return to center slightly by increasing the caster to around 4 degrees.

 

the original boxes are NOT fully rebuildable because the gears are not available . . anyone that tells you they will work EXACTLY like new if the gears are worn is smokin crack . . rebuilding a box will often eliminate around 80% of the play . . this means that when properly adjusted with all other parts in good working order, a standard size steering wheel might have around around 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" of play.

 

you can easily rebuild it yourself cheap or send it to chockostang.

.

Edited December 17, 2014 by barnett468

[barnett468 418]

ok, i would switch to a borgensen before i installed a rack however, the borgensen has no "automatic" return to center which some people hate . . you can increase the return to center slightly by increasing the caster to around 4 degrees.

 

the original boxes are NOT fully rebuildable because the gears are not available . . anyone that tells you they will work EXACTLY like new if the gears are worn is smokin crack . . rebuilding a box will often eliminate around 80% of the play . . this means that when properly adjusted with all other parts in good working order, a standard size steering wheel might have around around 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" of play.

 

you can easily rebuild it yourself cheap or send it to chockostang.

.

Edited December 17, 2014 by barnett468

[1969_Mach1 333]

Wow! I never thought the OEM 15" wheel makes that much difference in turning effort. The effort on mine without the P/S installed and the OEM 15" wheel is difficult. But not so bad that I need something different at this time. But I definitely don't try to turn the steering with the car stopped, especially stopped and the brakes applied.

 

If you want to switch I would also go the Borgenson route. I don't understand the complaints about the steering not returning to center. Worm and sector gear designs in steering boxes mesh with an interference fit for about 1/2 revolution through center. This eliminates impact loads between the gears inside the steering box as you drive straight, which is most of the time. This by design will resist full automatic returns to center. When I was younger I worked as a GM tech for many years in the mid and late 1980's and every new GM with a steering box did not fully return to center by itself. In my opinion, if the steering easily automatically fully returns to center, the steering box preload adjustments might be too loose. The Borgenson box looks like the cleanest setup with the least modifications to the car which is good.

 

It wasn't mentioned whether the car is auto or manual trans. I only mention because everything I've read states the Borgenson box will not fit with original manual trans clutch linkage on a 351W. Borgenson offers specific clutch linkage for small blocks. But I don't think it applies to 351W's since the 351W uses different clutch linkage.

Edited December 18, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[1969_Mach1 333]

Wow! I never thought the OEM 15" wheel makes that much difference in turning effort. The effort on mine without the P/S installed and the OEM 15" wheel is difficult. But not so bad that I need something different at this time. But I definitely don't try to turn the steering with the car stopped, especially stopped and the brakes applied.

 

If you want to switch I would also go the Borgenson route. I don't understand the complaints about the steering not returning to center. Worm and sector gear designs in steering boxes mesh with an interference fit for about 1/2 revolution through center. This eliminates impact loads between the gears inside the steering box as you drive straight, which is most of the time. This by design will resist full automatic returns to center. When I was younger I worked as a GM tech for many years in the mid and late 1980's and every new GM with a steering box did not fully return to center by itself. In my opinion, if the steering easily automatically fully returns to center, the steering box preload adjustments might be too loose. The Borgenson box looks like the cleanest setup with the least modifications to the car which is good.

 

It wasn't mentioned whether the car is auto or manual trans. I only mention because everything I've read states the Borgenson box will not fit with original manual trans clutch linkage on a 351W. Borgenson offers specific clutch linkage for small blocks. But I don't think it applies to 351W's since the 351W uses different clutch linkage.

Edited December 18, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[barnett468 418]

.

the early mustangs actually used a "toothed" rubber bushing on the idler or on ps cars to increase return to center . . none of the repo arms have it.

 

installing a ball bearing idler greatly reduced the return to center and it did feel a bit odd and annoying to me and many customers.

.

[barnett468 418]

.

the early mustangs actually used a "toothed" rubber bushing on the idler or on ps cars to increase return to center . . none of the repo arms have it.

 

installing a ball bearing idler greatly reduced the return to center and it did feel a bit odd and annoying to me and many customers.

.

[Mike65 476]

I am not a fan of the rack and pinion swaps. I used the CPP power box and I have no problems with return to center. I did have to dent my shock tower a bit which I did not like doing.

I have good and decent used steering boxes if you need them

 

Bob

 

Bob,

I am looking at the CPP power steering kit also for my 69 Coupe & was wondering why you had to dent the shock tower? Do you have any installed pics of the p/s system?.

Mike.