Sanderson Headers & 351 Cleveland ?????

[prayers1 153]

I just pulled the 289 out and the 351 4V Cleveland will be going in soon.

I have Manual Steering, Factory Z-Bar set up and a 4 spd Toploader.

 

The Consensus for my headers search says Sandersons are best.

 

My concern is when I first start the motor for it's break in, usually I have at least mufflers installed, but with Sanderson's it seems you have to go to the Muffler shop to get down pipes installed first before hooking up to mufflers.

 

Is that true, is there another way, does Sanderson's sell the pipes to Muffler separately????

 

I'd hate to trailer the car with no power, push it on and off just after a paint job!

 

What do you think and thanks for your opinions!

[Wycked69 20]

I just pulled the 289 out and the 351 4V Cleveland will be going in soon.

I have Manual Steering, Factory Z-Bar set up and a 4 spd Toploader.

 

The Consensus for my headers search says Sandersons are best.

 

My concern is when I first start the motor for it's break in, usually I have at least mufflers installed, but with Sanderson's it seems you have to go to the Muffler shop to get down pipes installed first before hooking up to mufflers.

 

Is that true, is there another way, does Sanderson's sell the pipes to Muffler separately????

 

I'd hate to trailer the car with no power, push it on and off just after a paint job!

 

What do you think and thanks for your opinions!

 

That's correct because the Sandersons are "shortie headers. And no, sandersons does not sell the exhaust pipes separately. You need to go to a muffler shop and have them made for the car.

 

As I mentioned on the other forum, I have a set of Doug's #D670S4 ceramic coated engine swap headers (long tube) on my 68 with manual steering, 351C, 164 tooth flywheel, 4-speed top loader, and stock Z-bar clutch assembly......... and they fit like a glove. These headers don't hang low either but cost me about $600 a few years back.

[prayers1 153]

The Sandersons cost $355 vs. Dougs $675.

 

The Sanderson's will add to the cost to tow the vehicle back and fourth from the Shop, plus the cost for the down pipe off of the shortie.

 

Dougs, I can use a set of cherry bomb mufflers I have lying around that will bolt to collector.

 

Tough call to make. I know I'll lose a few ponies with the shorties and I tried to nickle and dime for as much Hp as I can get. Even with the 289, I hated to adjust the clutch, I can only imagine how it would be with a Cleveland and long tubes.

 

If the Dougs really fit as Wycked69 says, then I'm leaning a little that way.

 

I just wish I had more solid opinions. Time will only tell.

 

No matter what you think, Please keep your opinions coming. It's important. Thanks!

[Rip Rock 13]

When I switched from the hooker long tubes to the Sanderson shorties I gain about 1.5-2" of ground clearance with the shorties, and sounded better as well. No problems for fitment wise and that's with a 6 speed t-56 trans. But custom down pipes is the only problem with the sandersons. I did clean up the weld splatter in the exhaust ports before install.

[miketyler 15]

The Sandies should ship with a pair of angled cut collectors. These are meant to give you (or your shop) a base to start with when setting up your down pipes.

 

I installed the Pypes stainless exhaust system, then bought the 2.5 flexible stainless pipes from Autozone and clamped them up temporarily to the collectors. BTW, my Sandies don't leak with the Good Stuff sealer either - I had my concerns initially about their gasket-less product.

Edited March 30, 2014 by miketyler

[prayers1 153]

Thanks Mike for the info and taking the time to put up a photo. I was wondering where I could get a flexible pipe such as the type used in side pipes, didn't know Autozone sold them. With that thought, I can eliminate the cost to tow. That's one more notch for the Shorties. The picture of yours looks like it fits perfect.

Mike, did you go 2.5 or 3" to the back?

 

I maybe be venting here, but I believe this is the best place to do it. I really need to figure this exhaust equation out. My biggest concern with the shorties is from what hear say is, loss of power. I don't know if that's true, but that would be the deciding factor between Dougs' long tubes and Sanderson's. I'm stuck on the old school thought, "long tubes are better". I was going to stroke the Cleveland but the cost prevented that. I penny pinched and did my homework, building an economical Cleveland (If that's such a thing) for the most Hp to cost ratio, I'd hate to lose all that because of exhaust.

 

If anyone can shed some light on the horsepower difference between the two, that would help in this decision.

 

I really appreciate everyone's opinion, Thank You.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

I have the Hooker long tubes and the car sits low. The#8&5 tubes get road rash,hates speed bumps and steep driveways.

Fit like a glove and not one ding to install with Lakewood scattershield, stock clutch linkage and power steering without drop bracket.

 

IF, I were to do it over. I might use the shorty's just to eleminate the scraping. The loss of power in a street driver will be small.

You can help keep the loss smaller by removing the thermactor bump in the exhaust ports and going with 2.5-3in pipes and freeflowing mufflers.

[prayers1 153]

Mach1Rider, glad to see ya around. Have you settled in at the new spot?

I've read on several sites that the older set of Hookers had a better fit, is that what you have?

Did you install them when you placed the engine in or separately from above or below?

 

 

I was surprised to see a lot hits on the web concerning shorties vs. long tube.

One of the hits had a link to Sanderson's where there is a chart for shorties vs. long tube. The chart uses a Small Block Chevy for comparison, it says w/shorties power drops off at 5500 rpm's. My concern is that my Cam's red line is 6200 rpm's. To me it appears that shorties have good street use and longtubes have better strip use. I guess I'm in between that w/ my build. I did send an email to their Tech dept. to see what the felt about my rpm factor.

 

Someone on VMF stated this:

"The Sanderson website has a good compare of short vs long tube complete

with graphs. The graph shows an increase of low rpm torque with the shorty

and hi-rpm increases with long tubes. More low-end would be good for the street

on a 351C-4v."

Edited March 30, 2014 by prayers1

[miketyler 15]

I went with 2.5. You may be able to request 3" collectors if you are planning to run 3" from headers back. When I installed these temp flex tubes, the only problem I had was that they hung low. Since the front of the exhaust system is supported by their connection to the headers, the flex tube would droop. I did manage to wire them up in a ghetto format and this worked well for jockeying the car around until I got it to the exhaust shop.

 

[Grabber70Mach 107]

I like my Sanderson shorties, don't think you will notice a difference between the two unless you are trying to wring out every tenth at the track.

[prayers1 153]

As you will note above, I emailed Sanderson today (Sunday) and could you believe, I got a replay today. I'm sure others have thought of this same concern, so I hope this answer will help them as it did for me.

 

If you are racing the car, and that is its primary (only) purpose, get long-tube headers.

You are also trying to compare a header that has a 1-3/4” primary on that chart, to the FC4 which has a 1-7/8” primary.

If this is a daily driver or cruiser, then the shorty headers work perfectly. You have to decide, how much time are you REALLY spending above 5500 RPM, or reaching 6200 RPM vs everything below that engine speed? That is not an aggressive cam profile, and 6200 RPM is not that high. Are you willing to give up torque for a few extra horsepower the few times you may even need it

If you are looking for every last horsepower on a race track, you will want an equal-length, long-tube header. If you want a header that fits, makes the most torque for around town driving and cruising, you will want the shorty headers. People often forget, that horsepower is most-related to top speed, whereas torque is related to acceleration.

 

 

With that said, I'm gonna order a set. For now I can forget about the worry of exhaust fitment issues and worry about something else, isn't it always ....

I gonna do what Mike Tyler said, use a metal flex tube to reroute to the H-pipe/mufflers temporary for the first start/ break in period, then drive it over to the muffler shop.

 

 

Thank you everyone for your time and help!

[alphapygmy 10]

I went with Sanderson over the Doug's for price also. I'm in the middle of trying to make 3" down pipes to connect with my old 3" system. There's just enough room for a 3" pipe around the steering linkage and C-6 bell housing. I also leaned towards the Sanderson because I'd like to put the 4 barrel heads back on some time and I won't have to buy new headers going from 2 to 4 barrel heads. I think the flex tube is a good start to get it broke in and to the muffler shop.