Cheap Junkyard Rack/Pinion mod for 69 Mustang?

[puzzledeagle 10]

Will this modification work for a 69 Mustang? It's a 80s GM Rack and Pinion modified to fit for 60s Ford

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20021228124420/http://home.pacbell.net/ssixto/automotive/R&P/HowTo.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20030219101039/http://home.pacbell.net/ssixto/automotive/R&P/R&P.html

 

The thumbnails for the pictures work, but you have to click on them.

[bomccorkle 12]

I may be wrong but when I was reading up on all of this most of what I had heard/read was that there are a few others that will kinda work but it seems geometry is an issue and there seemed to be talk of loosing turning radius and other drawbacks to it. With the way the factory running gear is set up and the way it can be modified r&p seems to be a fairly moot point unless it has to be done for clearance issues.

[Kris 90]

I dont really see the huge fuss with switching over to a rack setup either. I completely replaced all my front suspension and steering components and even upgraded to a borgeson power steering unit all for less than $800 with all new quality brand name parts. The rack setups I have seen are $1900+. Unless there is something I am missing I cant see spending that kind if money. I do understand it also depends on how you plan on using your car too.

[MustangChuck 16]

There is this thread over on VMF. It goes into a lot of detail about building a RnP setup out of the GM j-body rack. Unfortunately, none of those who completed the project returned to give the final details.

 

Chuck

[danno 128]

This modification will definately work fine. It is exactly the rack and pinion used by the kit supplied by Randalls Rack, I have that in my car. The only down side is that turning radius is a bit worse.

 

So you can either get the rack and make or find all the pieces to fit it to your car, or buy the kit that has all the pieces already supplied.

[bomccorkle 12]

Danno out of pure curiosity why did you switch to a rack??

[MustangChuck 16]

I am in the process of building this. I am by no means close to finished, but so far, my parts total $130 ($50 for the complete rack and GM pump, $80 for a column). I still have a few more pieces to buy (such as a drag link to cut ($70) and hoses ($??)) and still need to make the brackets. The link puzzledeagle provided has bracket information for what appears to be a Fairlane. I don't know how close they would be to a Mustang, but they are a great starting point for wooden mockups. When all is done, I should have this complete for less than $500.

 

Bump steer is only an issue if you change the geometry of the front steering. Since I plan to cut up a drag link, I will be maintaining the exact geometry Ford designed. Turning radius could be an issue. The 69 turned tighter than any car I have owned (except a 1984 Honda Civic, which was a really small car to begin with), so I don't expect the "loss" to be that bad. It'll probably turn like my 95 GT or at the worst, my wife's 03 Sable wagon.

 

Chuck

 

EDIT: I forgot to include some of the more pricey pieces yet to be purchased: a pair of u-joints, a length of DD shaft, a bearing to hold the lower steering shaft and a pair of shaft collars to hold the bearing. The u-joints will probably be the most expensive individual items.

Edited September 4, 2013 by MustangChuck

[Kris 90]

Ok why would you get a used j-body rack setup from a junk yard when you can get a brand NEW one from autozone for $80 + a $17 core with a lifetime warranty? You are going to spend at least that for the used one and still have to go through it and more than likely replace a few things. Given you will not get all the bracket, tie rods and such as it is just the complete power rack. But it sounds like you will have to fab all that stuff up any how for the application on a mustang and why woul you use old tie rods anyways. Maybe I am missing something here but I cant see getting a used part from a junk yard that has been sitting for lord knows how long and probably had a good number of miles on it when a new one is that dirt cheap. Not trying to be a party pooper, I am just the type of person that always looks to see how much a new one is versus a used one.

[JayEstes 172]

I did some reading on this subject a while back, and the info I read is that it is a lot of work to get this mod in, and in a LOT of the stories I read, the rack system left the car with little or even no "return to center" when turning a corner. I can't imagine having a steering system, where it doesn't have a tendency to come out of the turn.

 

Some of the stories were so bad, people ended up ripping them out and putting stock stuff back.

 

In my book- what is the real benefit? replace a working steering system for a different one? I kind of like the way the stock stuff drives, it aint for racing maybe, but it's pleasant to use when in proper repair.

 

I came to the conclusion that R&P wasn't worth the effort. I originally considered it as possibly a safety upgrade... seems to me, based on other folks experience, it's not a great upgrade.

 

Jay

[MustangChuck 16]

Ok why would you get a used j-body rack setup from a junk yard when you can get a brand NEW one from autozone for $80 + a $17 core with a lifetime warranty? You are going to spend at least that for the used one and still have to go through it and more than likely replace a few things. Given you will not get all the bracket, tie rods and such as it is just the complete power rack. But it sounds like you will have to fab all that stuff up any how for the application on a mustang and why woul you use old tie rods anyways. Maybe I am missing something here but I cant see getting a used part from a junk yard that has been sitting for lord knows how long and probably had a good number of miles on it when a new one is that dirt cheap. Not trying to be a party pooper, I am just the type of person that always looks to see how much a new one is versus a used one.

 

Actually, I got all the brackets, tie rods, PS pump, hoses for the rack, plus the rack for only $50. And, when I pulled it (4 years ago), you couldn't get them from AutoZone for that price. It was worth the effort to pull it. The rack had only 135k miles on it. The car I pulled it from had a very minor front end collision. The rack turned well in the car before I pulled it.

 

But, now-a-days, ya it isn't worth the 8-10 hours of effort when you can get a new one for about the same price as the yard will charge. I don't believe, though, that you get the brackets with the new rack. If not, they are a junk-yard pull item, but not hard to get out. Obviously, you'll need to buy/fabricate the hoses with the new rack.

 

Chuck

Edited September 4, 2013 by MustangChuck

[Jimjific 23]

I am running the "J" car rack. I got my brackets and spare parts from Larry on this site.

 

There is quite a bit of miss-information going on regards to this rack set-up. So hopefully I can shed some light from someone who is actually using this rack.

 

One, I went through the Randalls rack and it was a disaster for a couple of reasons. The Randalls rack uses a MODIFIED "J" car rack and is NOT EXACTLY THE SAME. He does not use the rack as it was originally designed since he puts the rack in front of the steering linkage which means you have to flip the center link to face backwards. So, it you have an issue, you can't just go to NAPA and get a new one, you are subject to dealing with him and in my experience, that wasn't pleasant. Randalls rack set up also removes the lower cross member tube and is replaced by his bracket.

 

Two, I have zero issues with return to center.

 

Three, there is a loss of turning radius. This is the only down side of this conversion. It is minor though and doesn't really bother me. I will address this eventually when I have time though.

 

Four, cost. True enough, the Randalls rack solution is unnecessarily expensive. Although I didn't buy a complete kit from Larry, I couldn't see this costing me more than $1000. As it is, I probably did it for about $700.

 

Kris, I agree with you that I would just get one from NAPA vs. a junk yard. Mine cost ~$100 and it came with new bushings. Larry supplied me with nice new tie rods and threaded tubes that you can get out of a Speedway catalog.

 

Here are a couple of links to posts I did for my suspension.

This one is the start of my steering mods.

http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=12922

 

This one goes over the rack install.

http://www.1969stang.com/mustang/forum/showthread.php?t=13559

 

As for why a rack? Well, if we are honest, the original design plain sucks. I've never had the power steering ram setup with it's endless hoses not leak. Ask yourself, how many modern cars are copying a 1969 Mustang steering system today? there are plenty of improvements that can be made on these suspensions. I started with solid mount jointed strut rods. I understand if you have a perfectly restored car you would want the old setup. My car is a plain Jane fastback and I wanted to make it handle the best I could. Plus, all of this is just bolt on stuff and I have all the original steering in a box.

 

All I can say is, I drove in this morning and taking on ramps and corners sure is a lot of fun. Like I said in the post, I went from the worst handling Mustang that I've ever owned to the best.

 

Jim

[MustangChuck 16]

The setup most similar to the VMF post and the one the OP listed is the Steeroids kit (from Speed Direct). They have instructions online. I think Aeroform sells the exact same setup for a bit less. Wilit on VMF wrote a nice thread on its installation and the issues he had.

 

Both the Speed Direct instructions and Wilit's write up are good additional sources for building the DIY rack. You can buy just the brackets from Speed Direct, but they want nearly $500 for them. Not worth it, in my opinion.

 

For those who have installed this rack (either as a DIY setup or a purchased kit), do you know what u-joint was used at the rack? I measured my rack a couple of days ago, and it seems to be an odd size (0.585" on the flat sides, 0.685" on the round sides). When I grabbed the rack, I did not grab the coupler that attaches it to the steering shaft and have been kicking myself ever since.

 

Chuck

[danno 128]

Jim said it all quite well.

 

An earlier post was asking about why I switched to a Rack. I did so because I like power steering, and the system from 1969 had flaws built into it. 20 years ago I went through my entire factory system, all new parts, and got it as best as could be. With all this effort it was at best still marginal. Great by the standards of 1969, marginal my the standards of today. I drive in Minneapolis traffic every day, and want something more precise. So Rack was the way I went.

 

I made my decision for rack and pinion in 2004 and started looking. At the time, Randall was about the only option. He was also a lot cheaper then. Now you have a lot more options. Knowing now about all the mistakes made, what worked and what did not, makes the job of doing it yourself easier.

 

Goo luck! Go for it!