69 mach 408w build

[Junior2561 10]

like glass!!!!

[LSG 15]

Buck, whats up with the shop having to mill the intake alot in order for the ports to line up ? Not to crap in your flower box, but usually if some shop wants to mill the intake, it means they messed up your geometry in some other place. just wondering. LSG

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Buck, whats up with the shop having to mill the intake alot in order for the ports to line up ? Not to crap in your flower box, but usually if some shop wants to mill the intake, it means they messed up your geometry in some other place. just wondering. LSG

 

i couldn't agree with you less.

 

the shop said it's common for victor intake's to sit a bit high on the ports. i'm not sure if it's just a victor/high port combination or what. He called me and asked for permission to do the port work.

 

i don't believe it's that uncommon to mill the faces of a manifold. this is a 9.48" block, old iron high ports (with opened up intake ports), it was decked and they wanted good alignment on the ports.

 

have you worked with high ports and victor intakes? have you always had good alignment on a block with good machine work?

Edited April 25, 2011 by BuckeyeDemon

[LSG 15]

Buck, I have no problem with some port matching, the victors are usually cast a bit small so that you can do that.....ebrock has no way to know if you're using stock irons, air flow Al or windsor jrs. But why would it need to be milled ? The port match is sometimes needed to align the ports, but milling is usually done because the bolt holes won't allow the bolts to thread in. What happens is that as the heads are milled and the deck of the block is milled, the space for the intake to sit in is narrowed slightly. What the unskilled to to fix this problem is mill the sides of the intake. Then you have an intake that only fits your cobbled up engine. And any other intake you want to try, you have to mill that to fit as well. The much better way to handle the fit issue is to mill the intake face of the cylinderheads. Lets look at your engine as an example, if your decks are 9.48, they've been cut .020 at some point, now suppose the heads have been milled .050 to reduce chamber size.....the intake doesn't want to go on because the space for it is too narrow.

So what do we do to make it fit correctly ? because the Ford V8s have a 90* angle between the block decks and the intake face, the ratio we need is one to one, so we take the .020 from the decks and the .050 from the heads and get a total of .070, so we need to cut .070 from the side of the cylinderheads. Wow, everything lines up perfectly. been doing it this way for 25 years and it has not failed yet. This method leaves you the option of an intake that you can remove and use on something else and it is easy to swap something else on yours if you want to try it. Most of the Ford V8s take this kind of work easily, but the windsors you have to be careful of the valve cover rails on the heads, it just takes an extra minute of setup time on the mill.

 

I will agree that it is not uncommon for an intake to be milled, and lots of PP and 'brock intakes are warped brand new. But to mill them just to make them fit, well, thats being done by guys that flunked geometry class in high school.

 

LSG

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i would think (i'm no engine builder) it would be difficult to fully mock up the engine and know how much to take off the cylinder head intake face.

 

It would seem safer to mill the intake manifold after everything is completely installed. What if someone screws up and has to later do some milling of the block, or heads and a new intake is too narrow? Use thicker intake gaskets? Also an intake manifold costs about $200 as compared to $1500. So a goof up costs me $200 versus $1500.

 

I can understand if the heads were milled x-amount that they'd probably cut the head intake surface to compensate. This block was decked and as far as i know, the heads were never cut to decrease the size of the chamber. I have no idea how Fox Lake opened up the intake ports so I would assume they would have cut the port evenly and not shifted it (especially down). The shop said they had to cut a lot off the manifold. What does a lot mean? I have no idea. I didn't ask how many mills.

 

I will never ever change this manifold (what would i switch to anyways?) as the Shaker was made to fit with a victor jr. If i did have to change manifolds then is it that big of a deal to take it to a machine shop to have its faces milled?

 

Perhaps the owner of the shop doing my engine along with all the other race motors really doesn't know what he's doing. Somehow he's managed to own the business for many years.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i'm making an attempt to get replacement seat covers with a better insert fabric than what comes with the reproductions. the ones i've seen look pretty bad.

 

i'm hoping this won't be a complete pain.

 

it took SMS about 1.5 months to get the fabric. this is part#68-80120

 

this is a comparison of my original (lower section on the passenger seat that shouldn't have any wear) versus the new fabric.

 

 

[Junior2561 10]

wow, that is super close....

[bnickel 10,004]

wow, that is super close....

 

super close, hell, that's pretty much exact!!!!! SMS has or can get some really awesome stuff

[70mstang 11]

Really good stuff there =) Can't wait to see the finished seats

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

finished up the sound deadeners/sealers in the trunk area.

 

everything was scuffed. i used the 3m 2-part heavy bodied seam sealer on the joints.

 

i then used the spectrum second skin in the sound deadener gun to apply the material. about 60 lbs at the regulator (25 ft hose) seemed to work the best. on the strips i held the gun tip about 1-2" away from the metal. i applied two applications waiting about 6 hours between applications.

 

i just need to let this cure for a week and then i can think about the epoxy and final paint in the trunk area.

 

for the cost, i'm relatively happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mace 10]

I have some original '69 comfortweave material left over that I may be willing to part with. I just happened to luck into this stuff.

[LSG 15]

Buck, your build looks awesome. But if I get the chance, I'll kick your engine builder in the backside. The only intakes I've seen that were too narrow were ones that had been cut by folks who didn't know what they were doing. I'm not sure what the idea with 'mocking up' is......if one knows how tall the block is when new, and we do....at the shop I'm with, when you mill the face of something, you stamp on it an '.020' or what ever you took off. A coupla seconds of math tells you what you need to do. I can't imagine why you might want a differant intake, but one never knows. Suppose you step up to a parker funnel web ? Then your milled intake only fits other engines with extra thick gaskets, and you just destroyed the value of the intake. As far as how much a screw up costs you....the shop I'm with pays for their own mistakes, they don't make the customer pay for stuff they screwed up. The place has been going for 25 yrs while the other shops in our area have failed. Stock engines, racing engines, marine engines, diesels, cycles, all of it. They fact that they called and asked you for permission kinda says something, doesn't it ? Geometry really isn't that hard. And no, milling an intake isn't that hard for a shop to do, but if an engine is correctly setup from the get go, you won't ever have to. LSG

[50dan 25]

super close, hell, that's pretty much exact!!!!! SMS has or can get some really awesome stuff

 

I think he meant the pic. lol

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I can't imagine why you might want a differant intake, but one never knows. Suppose you step up to a parker funnel web ? Then your milled intake only fits other engines with extra thick gaskets, and you just destroyed the value of the intake.

 

what's the value of a vic jr. intake that's been port matched to my heads (ignore the milling of the the intake faces) and one that's had the carb flange milled 1/4"? $50 maybe? i'm not losing sleep over that.

 

as discussed earlier, i put a lot of hours trying to get the shaker to fit with the victor junior. there is a reason you don't see somewhat real looking shaker setups with vic jr. intakes with 9.5" deck blocks.

 

additionally the motor is getting tuned on an engine dyno with this intake. swapping intakes for better performance without a lot of track testing or a dyno would probably yield worse power for me.

 

the only reason i would swap intakes is if this one has some sort of damage and then it gets replaced with another vic jr.

 

.the shop I'm with pays for their own mistakes, they don't make the customer pay for stuff they screwed up. The place has been going for 25 yrs while the other shops in our area have failed. Stock engines, racing engines, marine engines, diesels, cycles, all of it. They fact that they called and asked you for permission kinda says something, doesn't it ? Geometry really isn't that hard. And no, milling an intake isn't that hard for a shop to do, but if an engine is correctly setup from the get go, you won't ever have to. LSG

 

the shop asked if i wanted to pay for the labor of port matching the intake. i had the option to say no. when i dropped off the parts i asked if it was value added to port match the intake. he indicated for what i was doing it wasn't. however at that point he hadn't had a chance to see the modifications to the intake runner entries on the cylinder heads.

 

this shop has been in business for at least 18 years (i was there when i was 16). he builds race motors as well.

 

i appreciate your concern though.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i finally finished (i hope it works reasonably well), the ventilation system for the bay where i'll be spraying.

 

the first setup i tried was too restrictive with the blower (tried to use a 6" diameter pipe).

 

this setup seems to move quite a bit of air. it's about as good as i can do for a home garage setup. i'll get to try it out when i spray the trunk compartment.

 

 

 

i'm basically using a squirrel cage blower (from a home central air unit) to push air into the bay where i'll be painting.

 

 

on the other side in the front of the bay, i cut three 16X16 holes with filters to distribute the air.

 

 

at the backside of the bay, i'm using the garage door for the exhaust. i made this frame that holds 5, 20X25 filters. it fits between the side seals, and under the rubber seal of the garage door. i have two cheap 20" fans (on the outside) to try and pull some air out. these two fans move a fraction of air compared to the squirrel cage.

 

i will have to mask with some plastic the top side of the garage door where it rolls up the rails to seal it up.

 

[Junior2561 10]

looks good. i'm interested to see how well it moves the air. are you going to do a smoke test?

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

i can feel a lot of air movement at the backside at the exhaust. when i went to close the garage door, it slammed the interior door open trying to push the air out.

 

i'm probably going to wire the second lower speed just in case there are areas where the air is moving to fast.

 

the test will be when i spray the trunk compartment. it's a small area and will help me get an idea of how it's moving. the car is all masked and ready to spray the trunk compartment.

 

i have the back sides of the doors, underside of the hood and front/rear valance masked and ready to spray as well.

 

as you know, ohio weather is not cooperating and the bugs are coming out...

[unfrozen1969 11]

I hope that you realize that we are all living vicariuosly through you, I don't know how you find all of the time...good job

[Junior2561 10]

I hope that you realize that we are all living vicariuosly through you, I don't know how you find all of the time...good job

LMAO!!:punk:

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I hope that you realize that we are all living vicariuosly through you

 

 

so you like the feeling of being poor, overwhelmed and stressed?

 

seriously, thanks for the support. it helps me to keep on chugging away. the top of the mountain is almost here.

[Silver_69_Coupe 31]

so you like the feeling of being poor, overwhelmed and stressed?

 

seriously, thanks for the support. it helps me to keep on chugging away. the top of the mountain is almost here.

 

Isn't that what they call the American dream. At least once you grow up and mom and dad don't take care of you anymore.

 

WooHoo I got a big fat paycheck...

Oh wait I have to pay the bills and buy GAS first... :sad:

Remaining Balance $1.50...

At least I can buy a refill pop.

 

Great progress Buckeye. Excellent workmanship and attention to detail.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

finally got some temperatures in the 70's, so i was able to spray the trunk area.

 

the pseudo booth worked well for this job (not spraying a ton of material). however, my guess is that i could use more exhaust area because there was a decent amount of pressure when i would try to close the inerior door. i may double up on the garage door filters.

 

 

i've always struggled spraying inside the small trunk area. i used the small 3m cup for the gun to make it easier to spray in the trunk compartment. you can spray upside down with these. i use a piece of 3/8 air hose about 10' foot to connect to the gun. it's lighter and more flexible. a small inline water filter is located at the start of the 10' hose. a lot of times i don't operate with a regulator at the gun. i'll install it temporarily to find the pressure that i set at the wall regulator. this setup just allows a little more gun flexibility and less weight/bulk.

 

 

i started off spraying the red oxide epoxy to match the colors again. that was followed by the base/clear.

 

i use plastic sheeting for masking. it works so much faster than paper.

 

red oxide

 

 

color

 

 

 

 

i can now do the final sanding on the quarters, roof, jambs and tail-light panel.

Edited May 21, 2011 by BuckeyeDemon

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

finally got some temperatures in the 70's, so i was able to spray the trunk area.

 

the pseudo booth worked well for this job (not spraying a ton of material). however, my guess is that i could use more exhaust area because there was a decent amount of pressure when i would try to close the inerior door. i may double up on the garage door filters.

 

 

i've always struggled spraying inside the small trunk area. i used the small 3m cup for the gun to make it easier to spray in the trunk compartment. you can spray upside down with these. i use a piece of 3/8 air hose about 10' foot to connect to the gun. it's lighter and more flexible. a small inline water filter is located at the start of the 10' hose. a lot of times i don't operate with a regulator at the gun. i'll install it temporarily to find the pressure that i set at the wall regulator. this setup just allows a little more gun flexibility and less weight/bulk.

 

 

i started off spraying the red oxide epoxy to match the colors again. that was followed by the base/clear.

 

i use plastic sheeting for masking. it works so much faster than paper.

 

red oxide

 

 

color

 

 

 

 

i can now do the final sanding on the quarters, roof, jambs and tail-light panel.

Edited May 21, 2011 by BuckeyeDemon

[Rcodenewf 44]

Now that looks awesome! Nice to see all your hard work show under that paint...

 

Keep up the great work......John

[Rcodenewf 44]

Now that looks awesome! Nice to see all your hard work show under that paint...

 

Keep up the great work......John