Fuel pump went out

[DanF1973 10]

So you guys are very aware of me always posting on here and i also donated and will each mont bc it would have cost me more monies if it wasn't for you guys..... SO now after replacing everything in the car I now believe my fuel pump took a dump. All the parts on her are over 6-10 yrs old even though she hadn't been driven much still. I not that when I replaced the fuel filter it remains half full if not lower and when I turn the car on it will start up run maybe 6-10 sec then die even with me pumping the fuel pedal it might stay going another 2sec. I can see fuel pumping into the carb via the jets but the fuel filter and what else I have said seems to be the issue also before all this very lack of get up in go. So looking at it it seems to me are ther 3 bolts or just 2 lower ones? Tha manual says you need to jack it up but if there are only 2 bolts it should be easy to unbolt plug the fuel lines then replace it?? Also does anyone know the bolt sizes and does the metal line going to the carb bolt there also? I remember on my SBC, i had to lift up the push rod or the pump wouldnt work so not sure if this 302 or any FORD has a fuel pump push rod?

Thanks as always you guys ROCK......

Dan

[69RestoRod 10]

The pump is held on by 9/16 bolts, possible to be 5/8 if they've been changed. The feed line from the frame rail to the pump is usually a rubber hose. From the factory there is a metal line from the pump to the carb, depending on what's been changed on your car it could still be there. Once the old pump is removed the new one should fit in place. If not the fuel pump eccentric , which is shaped like an egg, is pointing towards the fuel pump lever to activate it. If so turn the engine over be hand or tap the starter to move it.

[DanF1973 10]

Thanks that seems to be what I was thinking but from looking at a photo it appears to be only 2 bolts both lower that connects the pump to the block?? But i've read some say 3 bolts and I could feel one bolt way up high towards the firewall kinda which looks to be a bear to get out=( Also I do have the steel line running to the carb for fuel i'm guessing that also just unbolts and rebolts? Thanks again.

[foothilltom 33]

Hey Dan, I can't help but just agree with Print Dad's earlier comment about "slowing down" and looking at the big picture, but I don't always follow good advice either (see my sealed-tank, pink gas saga).

 

Before I'd replace my fuel pump, I'd do a volume test.

 

If you're bent on replacing it, it's 2 bolts (just as RestoRod described). The bolt on the right (face on from the driver's side) is pretty hard to get to from my experience. You need to be patient with that one. The one on the left is simple as pie.

 

You remove the steel fuel lines with either a 7/16" or 1/2" wrench, but be careful not to to round them out. There's something called a "line wrench" that is more complete than a regular box-end wrench that you might want to use if your lines are old.

 

In my setup, there's steel coming off the frame, then rubber to the inlet of the pump. There's steel coming from out outlet of the pump up into the carb. It's likely that cars have a combo of rubber hose at that point due to breakage over the years. Those are steel fittings are compression fittings.

 

The pump comes out easy enough once you wrestle with the right-hand bolt and replacing is simple. Get a new gasket (should come with the pump?).

 

In closing, I'd hate to see you throw good $$$ at problems that don't really exist. From your description (and I don't see how you got to a bad starter theory to a car that runs, but doesn't accelerate), it *could* be the fuel pump, but I'd bet a danish it's the carb.

 

There are good tests that prevent you from replacing good components. But if you have dough to burn, have at it.

 

Tom

[DanF1973 10]

Hey Dan, I can't help but just agree with Print Dad's earlier comment about "slowing down" and looking at the big picture, but I don't always follow good advice either (see my sealed-tank, pink gas saga).

 

Before I'd replace my fuel pump, I'd do a volume test.

 

If you're bent on replacing it, it's 2 bolts (just as RestoRod described). The bolt on the right (face on from the driver's side) is pretty hard to get to from my experience. You need to be patient with that one. The one on the left is simple as pie.

 

You remove the steel fuel lines with either a 7/16" or 1/2" wrench, but be careful not to to round them out. There's something called a "line wrench" that is more complete than a regular box-end wrench that you might want to use if your lines are old.

 

In my setup, there's steel coming off the frame, then rubber to the inlet of the pump. There's steel coming from out outlet of the pump up into the carb. It's likely that cars have a combo of rubber hose at that point due to breakage over the years. Those are steel fittings are compression fittings.

 

The pump comes out easy enough once you wrestle with the right-hand bolt and replacing is simple. Get a new gasket (should come with the pump?).

 

In closing, I'd hate to see you throw good $$$ at problems that don't really exist. From your description (and I don't see how you got to a bad starter theory to a car that runs, but doesn't accelerate), it *could* be the fuel pump, but I'd bet a danish it's the carb.

 

There are good tests that prevent you from replacing good components. But if you have dough to burn, have at it.

 

Tom

 

 

Well thanks Tom I think it is I've had the car now for 6 wks and havent driven it but 3 times=( So i'm trying to stop and ask before making a biggier mess=) So the starter i don't know why I even thought that, but when I saw the glass filter half full of fuel i was thinking that was due to decrease fuel pressure? So if your thinking the Carb which is 5wks old brand new 2bbl what could be the issue with that? I can see the jets pumping fuel?? How could I perform a volume test or check to see how the pump is and rule that out first?

Thanks

[Pakrat 1,043]

Yeah I agree, I'd be checking my new filter for crud, blowing out all my fuel lines and then looking at the carb first prior to replacing the fuel pump.

 

Dan likey the shotgun though, he's not the sniper rifle type............yet. When the pockets are holding just lint and the car is still not up to snuff though he'll catch on.:tongue_smilie:

[DanF1973 10]

Yeah I agree, I'd be checking my new filter for crud, blowing out all my fuel lines and then looking at the carb first prior to replacing the fuel pump.

 

Dan likey the shotgun though, he's not the sniper rifle type............yet. When the pockets are holding just lint and the car is still not up to snuff though he'll catch on.:tongue_smilie:

Hey man your sooo right and trying to work on it=) So the fuel filter was changed out twice and still the same issue. So when looking at the carb what should I look for? Remember before this happen it ran fine? Until when replacing the battery crossed post=( And then this whole snow ball happen. One of you guys said check the vol? do you mean fuel pressure? Can that be done by Ting into the fuel line and carb?

[foothilltom 33]

Hi Dan, I think I've stopped being helpful...but mostly because I don't understand the chronology of this car. Maybe others have it all together. I didn't know, for example, that your carb was brand new. I recall you talking about putting a 4bbl on it, but I assumed the stock 2bbl was 40 years old.

 

I recall the fiasco with the battery and components sparking, but I didn't know the car ran fine before that. A full chronology would be really helpful to prevent comments like mine from being full-blown useless.

 

Anywho, a volume test really is a pressure test. There's something about Bernoulli's law that comes to mind...but my high school physics is a blur.

 

Your pump creates a vaccum. If you disconnect the line to the carb, pull the coil wire, and crank your starter, your pump will do its thing. The trick here is to measure how much fuel gets pumped in a certain amount of time/revolutions. I don't have the figures in front of me, but it'll be pretty obvious if your pump is spurting fuel into the container.

 

I have a glass/replaceable filter on both my coupes and it appears to be "half-filled" when I look at it. If you think about it, that makes sense since the volume of the filter body is so much bigger than the line in. If the filter is clean, then you can pretty much rule out foriegn material, but as Pak said, it's a great idea to blow out your fuel lines to see what kind of chum comes out. If your filter or lines were hosed, they could have fouled your new carb easy enough. I found that out first hand.

 

In closing, I wouldn't presume to tell anybody who knows how to fly a helicopter how to run their show, but I think more context going forward would be useful to software geeks like me.

 

Tom

[DanF1973 10]

Humm not sure how to take that comment but... When I bought the car yes 40yrs old and the carb had a leak at the front which dripped always on the intake manifold The car still drove fine but changed it out with a OEM style 2bbl. The car drove fine for about 2 wks but the man who I bought the car from said he always unhooked the battery when the car set bc something he though was draining the battery. One day I went to start it and it wouldn't crank at all. The battery life I have no clue to how old it was. I then borrowed a friend battery and by being in a hurry crossed posted. In doing this it killed the voltage reg and start relay mounted up on the pass side fender. When I took the alternator in they said it was bad and a drain puling on it anyway. So I replaced all those parts. When I had connected everything together the car still wouldn't start but i switched area on the alternator connection to the electric choke and it fired up? Then next day it was dead. So I took the battery up to advance and it was indeed dead and wouldn't hold a charge. So I replaced the battery. Still it would crank up for about 6secs and spin off dead, thats when I changed the fuel filter. The man who I bought the car from said he replaced the fuel pump tank and so on but it would have been at least 6-9yrs ago. So my only thing left was thinking the pump,electric choke(carb) or what else could it be? I've now have tried to give the fullest most detail about whatr has happen since i took over her.

Dan

[foothilltom 33]

Hey Dan, I'm at work and must be brief, but don't take offense, I didn't mean any. What I was trying to say is that I don't want to insult your intelligence. You obviously are a smart and super-capable guy (hence the helicopter pilot comment) and I don't want to lecture you on the need for more info.

 

It looks like you provided some good info above, so I'm sure it's going to unleash some useful stuff from the boys.

Tom

[Pakrat 1,043]

My feeling is that your problems are only related by the fact of poor maintenance on behalf of the previous owner, your first clue is the battery. When you have the type of problem that drains your battery the solution/advice is not to just keep it disconnected when not in use, that's like covering rust with paint so you can't see it anymore, the problem doesn't go away. I think you need to solve this riddle first before you move on to any fuel issues. I know you played with the choke wire and got it to start but that would not be a battery killer, a line that should not be grounding out is more likely it and there is really no easy way to do that except to work your way from one end of the car to the other. You need to get a good multimeter and you need to start at the ground from the battery to the block and work your way down the line checking each and every connection.

 

Even if the guy put in a whole new fuel system front to back 6-9 years ago, if he didn't treat the system properly and just filled it once or twice then let it sit everything turns to varnish and gums up all the works. When the car does not run properly as you describe it has to be either spark, fuel or air that is the culprit so eliminate all spark issues first since those seem to be your main ones and we then we can move on to fuel if you still have issues and finally air if all else fails.

[DanF1973 10]

You here we go again but talking to another friend he said have you checked the choke? Maybe it isn't opening the butterflies? He might be right maybe there is a short even though i replaced the cable so I will go home and advance the choke to open the butterflies more to see if she will start up as well as do what you said also Pakrat. Thanks man

[Pakrat 1,043]

FWIW, I have always run my car with the choke disconnected completely, I really don't think it's the culprit, a symptom maybe. The idea of a choke is to aid in a cold car starting more quickly, not bringing it to it's knees at anything less than 100% efficient.

[DanF1973 10]

FWIW, I have always run my car with the choke disconnected completely, I really don't think it's the culprit, a symptom maybe. The idea of a choke is to aid in a cold car starting more quickly, not bringing it to it's knees at anything less than 100% efficient.

 

Really no choke so did you just unplugged it all togther and manually open your butterfly on the carb to the opening you want it when you crank it? Could after doing a full tune up could it need to be adjusted if it was the choke?

[Pakrat 1,043]

Oh the choke is still there but it doesn't get any power from anything, when you press down the gas pedal the buterflies open. My choke for reasons unknown always messed up my hot starts and I never really had a problem with cold ones, probably because my car is a summer only car.

 

So many folks are so used to driving new cars that they forget old cars need to be primed first, the choke can't do that. Every car is a little different but on my mine when she is cold I give the pedal two good full to the floor pumps then I hold it at half way and turn the key, vrooom everytime. That doesn't mean I may not have to play with the throttle for a second or two before she stays idle (what the choke would be doing) but then it just purrs. When it's hot I just go half down, no pumps and same thing, if I pumped she would probably flood. My point is not that you should do the same for your car but that the choke is not an integral part of the equasion, it's like the apendix of the human body.

[DanF1973 10]

Oh the choke is still there but it doesn't get any power from anything, when you press down the gas pedal the buterflies open. My choke for reasons unknown always messed up my hot starts and I never really had a problem with cold ones, probably because my car is a summer only car.

 

So many folks are so used to driving new cars that they forget old cars need to be primed first, the choke can't do that. Every car is a little different but on my mine when she is cold I give the pedal two good full to the floor pumps then I hold it at half way and turn the key, vrooom everytime. That doesn't mean I may not have to play with the throttle for a second or two before she stays idle (what the choke would be doing) but then it just purrs. When it's hot I just go half down, no pumps and same thing, if I pumped she would probably flood. My point is not that you should do the same for your car but that the choke is not an integral part of the equasion, it's like the apendix of the human body.

I agree I will do as those have said and also when I installed the new carb I did not adjust the choke just the idle and it ran fine, I will have someone push down on the gas pedal and i will make a small adjustment to the choke then open it wide open before doing anything else. If not i will turn it into a flower pot for my wifes roses=) haha

[MAD IN NC 21]

what ever you do - don't have foothiltons "gas tank" guy line the tank......

[DanF1973 10]

You know what anything now would help, the motor turns over and just freaking grinds! I adjusted the choke from just open to open and still nothing. I took the fuel line off at the carb turned the key and it shot gas to the side fender. So i'm sure the fuel pump is working i need to test the pressure in the am. As far as the carb goes man i would need to just replace it because i have NO knowledge of those at all=( i'm just so PO! Now i need to see who may drive out to look at.

[69RavenConv 286]

Even if your choke is out of whack, a car that recently ran ok should still try to fire. Sputter, kick, pop, maybe, but at least try. And your fuel pump sounds fine.

 

A total 'no start' like you describe is either a spark or fuel problem. I'm going to assume it's not a spark problem since it was running recently.

 

Fuel problems can be either too much (rich) or too little (lean). If you get a strong gas smell or vapors wafting out of the carburetor, then you're too rich*. If you're not rich, try pumping the gas while you crank (gently at first, don't overdo it) to richen the mix using the accelerator pump. If it still doesn't sputter, you need to consult a carburetor expert.

 

*you can pull a spark plug and see if it's wet with gasoline

[foothilltom 33]

I like the "no spark" theory. For a car that was recently running, I'd tend to think that pumps, carbs, chokes, and other stuff wouldn't go bonkers...especially with normal gas :)

 

Considering you did a reverse polarity number on your electrical system with the battery situation, I'd really suspect spark. Here's a test I remember doing in auto shop in 1978:

 

Pull the #1 plug wire, roll back the rubber boot to expose the metal contact, hold the wire with some insulated pliers and ground it to the block while a pal cranks the car. It helps to do this in the dark: if you see a spark jump across to the block: huzzah, you have spark. If you see nothing, all the cranking in the world is not going to start your baby.

 

Assuming you have no spark, here are some things along the way: Voltage Regulator, Coil, Coil wire, Distributor cap, rotor, points. All of these can be the cause of a no-spark and they may all have to be addressed in some order of cheap to expensive.

 

I'd test for spark and go to it. Did you pull your cap and leave your rotor off? I've done it more than once. Is your cap cracked? Did you fry your coil when you did the Frankenstein thing? Is your Voltage Regulator hooked up properly? Is your coil wire making good contact between the coil and the distributor? Perhaps your points are fried together?

 

If you shot gas all over your fender, I'd not suspect fuel. As Raven said, it should at least make an honest effort to start/run. Hell, my coupe started on red goo for fuel.

 

Finally, you got to enjoy a good mystery to enjoy this hobby -- as frustrating as they can be. Otherwise, it'll drive you bananas. Take the long haul approach and take pride in solving your mystery eventually.

 

Good luck, hombre.

Tom

[DanF1973 10]

I did change the cap/rotor plugs and plug wires. Last night i went back intothe cap and looked at the rotor and it was fine and remember the tune of replacing everything the car fired up and ran just not as stronge as before then the next day the battey was dead. i can try to change the points but the rotor should just push in and set right?

[foothilltom 33]

So you're saying you replaced all these things BEFORE the battery-sparking incident? If so, my point would be the same: check for spark.

 

The rotor just sits on top, yes. There's only one way for it to fit. I'd at least take a look at the points to see if they are burnt. I don't have any first-hand experience with cross-wiring the battery, so I don't know what that could do to downstream components.

 

As always, start from the start. Is there spark? Yes? Then, I'd look back at fuel/air.

 

Good luck.

Tom

[cramer 12]

...As far as the carb goes man i would need to just replace it because i have NO knowledge of those at all=( i'm just so PO! Now i need to see who may drive out to look at.

 

Hello,

 

Where are you located at?

Depending where you are maybe somebody could come give you a hand.

 

Thanks,

 

Marc Cramer

[DanF1973 10]

Guys i'm so pass pissed its not funny to the point of starting the car intill it blows up or starts. I have pulled number 1 plug screw driver to it ground to the motor had my girl start it and spark! I have freaking triple checked the cap and rotor! triple checked plug wire connects and on the right part of the cap, triple checked all battery grounds,starter relay nice and tight volt reg nice and tight, took the choke off reconnected it back adjust it unadjusted checked the coil connects the alternator connections all vacuum lines and fuel line. All unused ports are plugged off hooked the choke up to 2 others parts on the alternator and all I smell is freaking gas, really pass the breaking point to just shutting the hood and giving her the finger!

[DanF1973 10]

Hello,

 

Where are you located at?

Depending where you are maybe somebody could come give you a hand.

 

Thanks,

 

Marc Cramer

 

Hey man I live in Tampa/Wesley Chapel florida