Print Dad

Hello SlimeGold 69, Yes, that looks like my intake. It does have the crossover in the front where the carb mounts. I would say that is my intake for sure. The spacer I bought is Morosso phenolic and is open hole. So I have been using the open hole gaskets. Now that you mention it, when I pulled the carb, I saw what looked like a little imperfections on the inside of the spacer center. My thought to myself...This looks like it melted a bit. I was almost certain it was smooth when I installed it several weeks ago. I checked it out and it was over the cross-over valley. I was really thinking there was something odd with it. This was last night and I was getting worn-out so I didn't pay too much attention The last thing I told my wife was I was thinking of the spacer as a problem. I am thinking I am creating my own problems. i may be listening to too many people. The issue I had at first I was told was caused by percollation or toomuch pressure from the fuel pump. They said the pressure was blowing gas by the needle and seat. They recommended a fuel pressure regulator even though I have a stock mechanical pump. My thoughts was no way should the pressure be too high. I am pretty sure it puts out 4-6 pounds max. But I went and got a regulator and installed it. Didn't do jack. Then they said the carb was hot so they said I needed a plastic spacer to help cut down on the heat. So I installed the phenolic one. The more I look at this, the more it seems I should just listen to one or two people like yourself and do what I think is right. I used to feel I knew motors pretty well. Wouldn't it be a great thing if my problem was from the spacer. You say never use a plastic spacer on this type of intake. Is that because of the heat? If so I think you are right on..I think the spacer started to melt. If it is melting I am sure it would twist or warp as well. Would a metal spacer do anything for the heat of the carb or is it more likely to be needed on a motor that is built a little. I guess what I mean is it of any purpose for my car. The motor is stock. I had always just run the carb on the intake with a simple gasket. Would you suggest I do that again or are you thinking I should get a metal spacer? I have many gaskets, some are about 1/8 inch thick. Should i try using one of those and no spacer. I really am excited and can't wait to hear your replies. All I can say is thank for being there and listening and advising. You are very kind and from what I can tell you know the motor real well. Thanks doesn't seem to come close to how I appreciate your wisdom. I think I am getting too old for all this stuff........ Print Dad

Hello S code 69, SlimeGold 69. First Thanks. I really mean that. I am stuck but not ready to quit. S code. I don't think I have ruled out a vacuum leak. The car is still running 5 on idle. I know that a bad plug would affect the vac as well but the vacuum seems the same as before I did the intake. As far as the spacer, I had wondered if that could be a problem. I was advised that the carb was too hot and should run a spacer. A few things should mention but I don't think are an issue. The intake manifold has a passage at the front that I am almost certain is just for heat transfer. It is clear, but when I put the gasket from the new carb on, it is covered. So install a new base gasket, then the spacer, which is 1" phenolic Morosso". Then I install a gasket on top of that, and then put on the carb. It shouldn't matter but I put longer bolts on the intake to allow for the tall spacer. When I install the carb, I place it down slowly and tighten down using corner to corner. As for the spacer, when I placed it on, I looked to see if the large center hole aligned with the intake. I did not check to see if the bottom of the spacer was perfectly flat out of the package. Perhaps I should try to remove the spacer for now? When I remove the carb, I am generally using new intake gaskets. I have re-used the gaskets if the carrb has been on less then a few days, but in general, I am using brand new gaskets. I can't say I ruled out a vacuum leak because I am strating to question my skills. The only thing for sure is when replacing the intake gaskets, I took my time, cleaned surfaces extra well and cleaned. I vacuumed all debris and has rags covering ports etc. Before all this started and I hooked up a vacuum gauge, the car was running pretty well but not perfect. I would say on a scale to 100 the car was running 92. She was petty strong, no smoke, no trouble in oil, Now It would seems as though there is something major wrong. Seems strange the car was running pretty darn well but very low vacuum. Had I not hooked up the vacuum gauge I would have thought just minor carb adjustments. Thanks for taking the time to help and care....... Print DAD Hey Guys..do you think the spacer is needed or of any value?

Hell people, I am bumbed. I really tried to fix this. S code may be on to something with the timing. I checked the timming about a week ago. It was and always has been right on. I run 10 BTC. If the chain is loose and the valves are not in time, how do I know. I think I can pull the front and look at the dots on the camand crank but other than that, is there a way to tell? I am frustrated and really getting sick about this. I plan to take Friday eve off from the car. (need a break). I plan to follow S codes advice but I wish I knew what the whistle was. Stumped.... Print Dad

Hello S code 69, I just sent you a PM.. Thanks for the ideas. I will do what you say, but I should mention I just checked the timming and it is at 10BTC initial. I bought a new set of plugs so will throw them in Saturday. When I change the timing what am I trying to do? I will do it but am kinda lost. Should i then put it back to 10? Thanks for the help I am getting discouraged a real lot. Print Dad

Hello all, I am, hoping some of the cleveland people can help me. I am getting real discouraged. Some may recall I had a vacuum problem. I was running a steady 5ish at idle. After much advice I changed the intake. I went slow and this process took 2 nights. When I cleaned the surfaces, they were excellent and I washed with brake clean. I used new quality sealants and cements. Everything went together nice. I torqued the intake following the sequence and took her down in 4 rotations. As I finished installing the intake last night I decieded to put in new clear sight bowl screws I had just gotten. Well the front bowl went right in and while I installing the rear bowl, the plastic snapped right off in my hand. (No tools applied) I couldn't bet the piece without butchering it, so I pulled the bowl and cleaned it out after removing the broken sight bowl screw. Tonight I hooked up the carb, spacer and gaskets, finished running plug wires to cylinders etc. When I started her up, there was a pretty good gas leak. The car was missing but was also cold. I pulled the carb. checked the back bowl and realized, one of the bowl washers had stayed on the screw that I installed in another hole. So I had a bolt (1of 4) with no gasket. I fixed that and put it back onto the car. This time, when I started the car, there was a loud whistle and the car is running rough, very rough. You would think there was a crossed wire. I checked the firing order 3 times on the cap and checked where the wires ran to. It was pretty easy as I use looms and seperators to run the wires, so they weren't crossed. I then took off the alternator belt to be sure that the belt or the alternator was not causing the whistle. I pulled the timing mark to 10 and checked to see if the rotor is pointing to #1. it is. So now, I have a loud whistle and the car is running bad. I am going nowhere on this trouble. I had 2 friends (50+ year olders) look and they too are stumped. What scares me most is the whistle. When I started the car...guess what the vaccum was still at 5ish at idle. I tried 2 gauges. Where do I head now? I am getting beaten by this. In the last 3 weeks I have tried 1. - 3 Hollies 2. - New fuel pump 3. - Running with and without fuel regulator 4. -New Intake gaskets 5. - New plugs. and much more. Sorry for the long post but I am running out of ideas? Please help.... Print Dad or Dud

Hello 69RestoRod, Thanks very much for the info. I think my search skills stink because I looked around. I try places like Mustangs Monthly and I do also use Google. I type in 351C - rocker adjustment and I come up with loads of info on the adjustable type rockers and rockers used with solids (like the Boss). Could you also explain to some of us older guys "How do you do a good search". I also tried to use the search option on this forum and one other before I posted. So I am serious...what is a good method of finding out the right info. As you are aware there is just ton's of info out there but for me and probably others it is hard to narrow it down. As always I am very Thankful for the help......... Print dad

Hello EastYorkStang, If you pull the wire from the sending unit in the tank, and then run a ground to it, if the key is on the gage should go to full. I am pretty certain the oil works through a ground. Mn ay people wrap plumbers tape abound the base threads, but I learned this affects the grounding of the switch. Hope this helps a little........ Print Dad

Hello Tom. I almost thought I saw a white flag. No quiting at least not yet. I recently bought a vacuum guage for $20 and it is a great great tool. It can tell you many things abut the condition of the motor. A cheap investment but a good one I am now learning. If it were me, I would try several simple things. 1. - Loosen all the spark plug wires at the cap. Not the center coil one however. You wan the boots to be in the cap but not pushed all the way down to a seated position. Start the car and try to let her warm up. The with insulated pliers, pull the wires from the cap one at a time. (There is voltage there so use rubber gloves or proper pliers. When you pull a plug, notice the reaction of the motor. The motor should get rougher, Check one wire watch...then put it back in the cap and pull another. Repeat this process for all the plugs. See if you locate a wire that has little or no difference to the motor. if you find one, then I would replace the plug. Perhaps a cracked plug. It could be a bad plug or wire. 2. - Open distributor and re-gap the points. I know you have done this. While the cap is off, look at the underside. Do you see any cracks or odd markings? 3. - Next I would hook up a vacuum guage to a port on the intake. Check the needle action. This should tell us what is wrong. I would seem rather odd, that a valve would hang up at the same time as the pink gas but you never know. As far as timing, I would thow a timing light on it and see if it close to where she should be. A good starting point is 10BTC with the vacuum line disconnected an plugged. If the timming is close, I would leave it alone. The less things you change the easier it should be to fix. Sorry for asking Tom, but are you certain you are gapping the points correctly? Did you remember to re-hook the little copper pig tail wire? I realize that this must be frustrating but don't give up the ship. You have been doing amazing but you are at a little snag. It could be a valve but I think it will turn out to be something simple like a bad plug or plug wire, I had never used a vacuum test, but they can proove to be so helpful. It can detect timmingf issues, valves etc. etc. Hang in there and try just a b it more. Print Dad

Hello All, Put the intake on tonight, and she is almost back together. I am changing a pushrod and can't find the torque spec for the rocker. It is a 315c and has positive stop rockers. (The fulcrum inside the rocker and a bolt that goes into the head). I know i had the torque spec but I can't find it in my books. Want to try running her tomorrow. Could someone please let me know so I can get cruising with my wife. Thanks for all the help on this and my other adventures...... Print Dad

Hello coz, Thanks for the picture. Your motor looks real nice. The hole in my valley is ragged looking compared to yours and that is one of the reasons I freaked kinda. I hope others see these pictures so they will not go nuts as well Thanks for sharing..... Print Dad

Hello to all, I just wanted to say thanks for replying and putting my mind to rest. I think I could have made a better hole with an axe. I hope others see this thread before they pull their intake. Could save a lot lot lot of worries. Thanks so much to all the responders who helped me sleep last night. I hope I can help you people someday. Now if someone needs a lesson on Photoshop I'm there. Thanks again. Print Dad

Hello, I would have to agree with S code 69. Unless the car was a steal I'd pass. It is quite likely that it is a bondo mobile that will look bad in a year or two. Also, I think the rust looks pretty serious. There are plenty of cars....don't rush. Print Dad

Hello S code 69, Thanks... I think it may be some sort of oil passage to the cam gear but was worried when it didn't look nice and round. I was very worried, thought the worse. I am trying so hard to get the old girl back on the road before the winter comes. Thanks Thanks Thanks .... Print dad

Hello all, Many of you may know I have had a vacuum problem. I pulled the intake and cleaned everything well. As I was cleaning I noticed a hole that I don't know if it should be there. The hole is not nice and round like a factory hole. There were no shards of metal around and the hole looks a little old. I am enclosing a picture but it is not the best I know. Right now I am in panic panic mode. The hole's location: If the lifters sit in the valley floor, this hole is in the front wall. it is located in the wall that the skinny front intake gaskets sits on. So the hole points to the distributor. I hope someone can help. I am very nervous. If the hole is not supposed to be there, can it be fixed? If so how would I do it. I just can't afford a new block. What do I do....as you can tell I am panicking especially since I don't know where to find a picture. There have been many that have tried to help me that know Clevelands. Am I up the creak?- - Thanks- - A very worried Print Dad

Hello all, I believe the second set on numbers is correct. I think the first book is going in the trash. 14-18 makes no sense but that is what the book says. Just thought this may help others....... Print Dad

Hello All, I am getting ready to change the intake gasket and in my prep. I looked at 2 books to find intake torque specs. Both book differ quite a bit. One says final 14-18 the other 23-25 5/16 - or 28-32 3/8. The second book with higher numbers seems a bit more logical but I want to be sure. I do know about the sequence and taking it down in 3 rotations or 3 sequences. I appreciate all the help I have been given. I just like to be prepared and do things right the first time. Print Dad

Hello all, Here is where I am at. I bought a new vacuum guage just to be sure. The guage reads about 6. It is pretty darn steady. Fro some info and clarifications: 1. - The motor has never been rebuilt but many years ago I replaced the lifters. 2. - Rockers have fulcrum, positive stop. 3. - Distributor advance is working and no leaks 4. - When I checked the vacuum I went from several ports. One was the port on the intake, between the carb and dizzy. It is manifold vac. To be sure, I also tried a line on the back of the intake where the PVC hooks up. There is a fitting that sits up about an inch and has a 1/2'port for the PVC and a smaller fitting that was capped. 5. - When I was trying things for the surging, I used manifold vac and ported vac. to the dizzy. I have capped everything else and have capped the retard portion of the dizzy. The only 2 things using vacuum now are, 1 line to the advance and the large hose to the PVC which I just replaced. The timming is where it always has been which I run at 10BTDC. The car always ran well there. Overall the car runs great. The problem first started showing up on gentle coasting. The car would buck. If I was in first gear going 15 and took my foot off the gas, the car would soon start to surge or buck. This was the first signs of trouble. From there I started to have a little idle problem. When I set the carb (idle mixture screws - Holley 600 vac sec) the settings don't seem to hold. It is hard to explain. if I start 1.5 turns out and adjust 1/8 turn on both sides, i get the car close. Then in a few moments the car will idle rough again. The carb is new and is my third in 3 weeks. Dwell is perfect. I know this motor and I know when she is running right. This motor has a problem. The car seems to run strong and no popping ever. I forgot to try the guage in the dipstick tube. I bought another set of plugs and plan to put them in tomorrow just in case. Also I will check the condition of the plugs that come out. They only have about 250 miles tops. Because i have never done a leak down test...I am planning to replace the intake gaskets and change the plugs. if I still have trouble I will have someone help me do a leak down test. To have such low vacuum I would think the motor would be rougher at idle if i had valve issues. I don't know. I wish i could explain how the car feels strong but not right. Thanks for all the tips and ideas. This has me stumped but not totally beaten yet. As Slime suggests it could be many things causing the problem but I would like to think I have checked many of them. I started from scratch and re-checked the F.O., then I checked the initial timing. Today I did another compression test and get 165-170 in all. I checked dwell and am running 28 which was always good for her. All vac ports are capped with new caps. I have done a lot of re-checking and am just spinning my wheels. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks I truly appreciate the help. Print Dad

Hello All, I am really stuck here. Getting strong opinions of what is wrong. I have sent PM to several members in hopes I can figure this out. Sorry for posting but this is where I am. My friend who teaches automotive in my school came by to hear the car. The covered the carb throat with his hands and the car would stall. Next he unplugged the hose that goes to the PVC and covered the carb throat. The car stayed running. To him there is no intake leak. It doesn't explain why the low reading. I think I am going to buy another guage to be sure of my numbers. I borrowed the guage and it is pretty new. My friend did hear a little miss and thinks perhaps a cracked plug. I was almost certain the intake manifold gasket was leaking underneath. I ordered a new set last night. The car is running rich even though the carb is adjusted. The car seems great under load. No smoke ever out the exhaust. OIl looks great. the points are right on as is the timing. I just don't know what to do. I was planning to put on the gasket set but don't know what to do. The compression numbers (dry) were all very good. I didn't do a leak down test, never done one. The car seems to run too good to have a valve issue. Help...I am stuck.

Hello Ali, You should not see gas in the intake unless you were a little sloppy in taking it off. it sounds to me like the float levels are too high and running rich. Assuming the tune-up is correct and timming and dwell are good then I would look at carb issue. As for the mis-fire, you would feel it. How does the car run? If OK I think the simplest thing to do is replace the carb. I think a 600 vac secondary is big enough for the motor. Look at Summit racing, they have a summit brand carb or they also have many others depending on your preferences. I like Holley. The carbs run about $250 - $300.00. I realize this is a lot of money, but you should get better gas mileage and I think will eliminate the emissions issues. Print Dad

Hello all, Thanks for helping. It is appreciated. The intake is cast (stock). There is no smog stuff EGR or anything just a PVC line. The spacer is a 1" phenolic. I changed the PVC just to be sure it was OK. I ordered an intake set today and will start pulling it apart Sat. I feel confident there is a leak under the intake. I pulled plugs, they look good. I re-did the compression test and Numbers were great. I'll keep you people all up to date. Once again, I thank you all. As a note I too use the rods to align and if the dizzy is in the way...out she comes. Thanks....... Print Dad

Hello SlimeGold, Sorry I should posted.... stock cam. The motor is all stock except for Holley 600 vacuum secondary. carb. It is running old style (points distrib). Dwell perfect. Timming...initial 10BTC - Has always run fine there. I am stumped for sure..Thanks...... Print Dad

Hello S code 69, THanks for the help. I will try the rag on the carb. The car uses no vacuum except for the advance on the dizzy. No power booster nothing. All ports are capped with new caps. It seems there must be a leak somewhere, but why doesn't the starter fluid cause the rpm's to go up? I was hoping when I spray..say the front of the intake, that the motor would rev up a bit., This would let me know the leak is there in the front for example. Several people have said to replace the intake gasket. I would do this in a second if I understood why the motor doesn't race with starter fluid. My fear is I will change the intake gasket and if not solved will have to remove heads. The car seems to run too strong to have valve issues. I checked and re-checked the compression and it is good and consistent. Never pops thru carb. I am stumped. I may try to do the intake this week-end, just wish i had a better feeling about the source of the leak. I'll through this out there - - Any chance to intake (stock Ford) could have become porous or something weird? I know this is way out there but I am stumped. Thanks again...... Print Dad