LoneWolf2U 136 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 How are you bleeding them? what is your process? have you started at pass rear, dr rear pass frt, dr frt. Are you using a helper that keeps pressure on the petal till you bleed and close? Have you tried to gravity bleed the fronts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 I went in the order you mentioned. I tried the speedy bleeders with the one way valves, but switched back to the regular bleeders. I have my helper push down to build pressure, crack the bleeder until air/fluid stops coming out, close the valve and have the helper let the pedal up. I let the reservoir get about 3/4 empty before I refill. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 I haven't tried gravity bleeding. I'm not sure how to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LoneWolf2U 136 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 Brake bleeding without power to the booster is a pain, as your fighting the booster diaphragm with each petal stroke. I have found that gravity bleeding the wheels first will help remove the air trapped in the lines and cyl. With a tube from the bleeder to a jar sitting lower than the caliper, Open the bleeders and let gravity do the work for you. You need to keep close eye on the master fluid level as not to allow it to run too low or you have to start over again. I have had some calipers that had to remove the mounting bolts and suspend them to get the bleeder to the highest point to get all the air out of the system. Unless you have a power bleeder that pumps fluid from the cal back to the master its just keep trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 Harbor freight has a pneumatic bleeder for $29, I'm going to give it a try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SA69mach 39 Report post Posted April 4, 2015 couple of empty and clean cans, hooked up on the caliper with some wire, and lower than the bleeders. Some clear tube to fit over the bleeders, and then into the bottom of the can. Crack the bleeders and let them flow. Gravity slowly forces the fluid from the MC reservoir down the lines, and out of the bleeders. Four or five hours should do it. Check regularly for flow of fluid in the clear tubing. You can do one side at a time or both together, makes no difference. It is reliable but slow. If you have no flow, then you either have a blockage or a leak. The use of a power bleeder like the Mity-vac system is just a variation on this method, using a vacuum to pull the fluid at the bleeders to speed the process up. Re-reading your original post, I am drawn to the fact your pedal is very low. In my painful experiences with brakes, it seems that any problems with pedal height is related to the booster and MC, and in both cases, the PUSHROD. It seems you have taken great care to assemble and bleed the brakes, so try the gravity bleed and see if you pull air out. If you are bleeding correctly, over and over, and there is still a problem, then there is not much point to keep doing the same thing. You have now put a second new MC on, so that ought to eliminate the possibility of two consecutive faulty MC's. I seem to recall you have unplugged the booster with no fix, right? Brakes still work without vacuum at the booster, they are just harder to push, and this will not affect bleeding operations. It is when you start the car and apply vacuum to the booster that the pedal drops and you have poor brakes. If you are not getting bubbles or air out of the calipers it must be the pushrod arrangement and headspacing. Too short or too long will not allow for proper movement of 1 full inch in the MC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 I went to harbor freight and bought the pneumatic power bleeder. Works great, but I still have the same problem, I can't get the air out of the front lines. Been at it for hours without improvement. I'm only letting the resevioir get about 3/4 down before refilling it. This makes no sense whatsoever. I spent the entire day in the garage and got nothing done. It's going to the shop next week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayEstes 173 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 It might help if you sent some pics of your setup. Sometimes, guys online can see something based on their experiences. There have been times I swore I had everything right, only to discover later I was looking at it wrong. It's just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Here's a pic of the left caliper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Here's the prop valve and right caliper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Fixed! I used the pneumatic bleeder from harbor freight and bled the hell out of them. The fronts took about 8 times, I couldn't believe how much air came out. So my problem was a bad m/c and way too much air. Thanks for all the help and advice! Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SA69mach 39 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Glad you kept at it and got a solution. I am really surprised it took so much effort to get the air out. If you have driven it, how is the pedal feel, and braking effect now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 I just took it for a drive, it's a lot better. Glad I bought the pneumatic bleeder, would've taken forever with the "buddy" method. Thanks, Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayEstes 173 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 That's crazy. Really? After all of that? I have a vac bleeder myself, and I have been frustrated with it. It seems when I open the bleeder, too much air leaks in through threads of the bleeder into the caliper, so I get air coming in that isn't in the lines. I couldn't vac bleed very well because of that. Best bleeding I have done is with 2 man method. Weird. Did you use anything like plumbers tape (teflon) on the bleeders when you install? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
machm1970 180 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 I didn't use any sealer on the threads. The pneumatic bleeder from harbor freight worked really well (especially for $25). The rubber fitting fit pretty snug over the zert. I locked it on and stood by the master cylinder refilling it when it got 3/4 down. I ran fluid through it 5 or 6 times (at least) before all the air was out. It was nice in the fact it was fast ( i had all 4 done in 40 minutes or less) and it was a one man job. My wife doesn't always have patience when it comes to helping bleed brakes. The hose on the bleeder isn't quite clear, but it's clear enough you can see the bubbles. There's a video about the bleeder on youtube, they say you can put silicone grease around the zert before hooking up the rubber fitting for the bleeder to help minimize air leaks. I didn't have to do that. 1 JayEstes reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Conway 264 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 When bench bleeding my replacement MC I was just happy that I was doing it out of the car. The most prep, bleeding, I have ever done on any MC. Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Conway 264 Report post Posted April 7, 2015 The attached thumbnails posted above, in my last post, are not mine. So what's up with that ? Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
