493dart 11 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 Ive finally returned to working on this 69 and Im kinda stumped . Its a 302 / auto car . Its sat for at least 2 years . Basically , it wont start. When the key is turned to Run or Start I have nothing . The bad thing is , when the key is turned--the battery drops to 0 volts instantly ! I think the power is getting shorted to ground . It wont even crank with a battery charger/ jumper is on it . Ive checked all the wiring under the hood and to the ign box NEW parts are = battery starter starter solenoid ign switch coil the engine and converter turn over by hand the dist is a Mallory Unilte the ign box is a MSD 6AL --i checked its wiring. I suspect the MSD is shorting inside ?? any thoughts ? also keep in mind = 2 years ago i had this car running and test drove it ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
69NC 21 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) 1) did you have the battery load tested? Autozone and any auto parts place will do this for free. Assuming that everything was right 2 years ago, and the battery is good. lets determine between the starter and the rest of voltage circuits 2) Try disconnecting the starter and test. does the voltage still drop to zero? Note, there is a fuseable link for everything except the starter, so most likely that would blow on a really bad short. with the starter disconnected, if the voltage does not drop, start by taking the starter off the car, and have it tested (Again Autozone, or others will do for free). Did you wire the MSD box directly to the battery? If so disconnect that for now and see if the problem goes away? if you can do them one at a time to try to isolate the problem. Edited December 1, 2014 by 69NC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
70769 18 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 Unhook the starter from the block and try to start it again, if the starter works fine at that point check your grounds ie engine grounds. Had a similar problem recently. Have you tried jumping the starter solenoid? That would eliminate that entire leg of the circuit as well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magician 13 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 You say battery goes to 0...where are you reading that? The battery is defective or dead when no voltage in run position..I suspect several problems starting at battery and solenoid. Test a few things any get back with us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
493dart 11 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 testing on battery. = 0 volts 2nd new battery 2nd new starter --had a new one, put on another new Napa one 2 days ago . its definately not the starter. starter cable looks good. yes, ive jumped the solenoid--and its new tested ground from battery to block and from block to firewall = all good if it was a ground problem , the voltage wouldnt just instantly go to 0 at the battery . something is killing the battery. we are working on it tonight--ill try getting the MSD out of the circuit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustangmike6996 34 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 I have never seen a battery drop to 0 volts. I have seen very low like 1-2 but never a 0. Are you certain you have your meter on the correct setting (volts DC, the solid and dotted line not the sine wave looking setting) Are you certain your meter leads are in the correct lead positions (not in the common and Amp) they need to be in the common and vDC spots. Once you are certain your meter is set up correctly with the leads, turn the dial to ohms (omega symbol) touch the leads together and it should read 0 ohms (you know your meter is good and so are the leads) once you have verified this, then turn the dial back to the volts DC position to check voltage. I am not sure if you have done this, I have made this mistake a few times due to improper hook up or faulty test instruments and it will make life terrible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protowrxs 111 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 You said you jumped the solenoid but did that turn it over? If the battery is really going to zero I would think there would be smoke and fireworks somewhere as that has to be loads of amps going through something. I'd bet it's a bad battery ground or positive cable and under starter/solenoid load it's just opening up. Especially if you're not measuring voltage on the actual battery terminals but the connectors or otherwise. Just my two cents... -Stephen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustangmike6996 34 Report post Posted December 1, 2014 You said you jumped the solenoid but did that turn it over? If the battery is really going to zero I would think there would be smoke and fireworks somewhere as that has to be loads of amps going through something. I'd bet it's a bad battery ground or positive cable and under starter/solenoid load it's just opening up. Especially if you're not measuring voltage on the actual battery terminals but the connectors or otherwise. Just my two cents... -Stephen AH yes.... that reminds me of a time that I had a mustang not start due to a bad terminal (at the wire) the connection was eating all of the voltage applied to the starter solenoid and gave me a no crank/no start. Are you familiar with a voltage drop test? essentially it tests the voltage being consumed (dropped) by the connection. 0.3v on the positive side and 0.1 on the negative is the limits. high resistance will eat more voltage and will not power the starter or allow the solenoid to click over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
493dart 11 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 ok boys -- worked on it today. and no --its nothing to do with my multimeter . ive narrowed it down to a junk battery or a junk charger/booster. with the Napa booster in start mode at 225 amps , the starter would just groan loudly---and the fan would barely try to move. I found a 1500 amp jump pack in the shop and stuck it on the battery --we hit the key and the starter spun like normal ! I thought a 225 amp jump would be enough nuts to spin the starter ?? i also checked all grounds and everything is 1 ohm or less . anyway--the battery is at Oreilly getting charged all night--then tested tomorrow --ill let ya know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustangmike6996 34 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 did you get a chance to do the volt drop test? That will mimic a bad/low charged battery. I am still confused about how you got 0 volts though Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
493dart 11 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 i didnt do that test. it was not Exactly 0 volts.. the reading was something like 0.2 - 0.8 vdc. meter set on 20v range ... ive never seen that either ! im picking up the battery soon--i will post back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustangmike6996 34 Report post Posted December 2, 2014 you measured battery post to battery post and didn't have the meter on the terminals, correct? That is the only thing I can see dropping it that low. I have not seen too many batteries go below 50% charge during a load test and come back to life or pass a load test after a recharge. I have seen some battery terminals break contact inside the case and cause 0v but its a hard 0. The volt drop test will eliminate any doubt about high resistance in the connections. Also, I have seen batteries with a film on the case draw current and "short" the battery out. Mix some baking soda and water in a cup, rub the battery down with it to clean it (the baking soda neutralizes that acid) and dry it off. I like to lightly scuff the terminals and posts to ensure proper contact as well. If the lead is dark that means it has a layer of oxidation built up. Be careful with the battery terminal brush tools, as the positive and negative posts/terminals are usually different diameters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
493dart 11 Report post Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks for all the suggestions boys - voltage was measured right on the posts. anyway-the battery failed the load test at oreilly AND autozone today --its junk. again - the battery was "new" but sat for at least 2 years with no charge put on it. i wouldnt be surprised if theres something drawing "parasitic voltage" in the car -- thats something ill have to check in the future for sure ! along with somehow getting a new battery . the owner flew back to La today so its one of those deals.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
