Radiator doesn't fit! Need Help

[det0326 179]

I'm wondering now if you may have a later model 351 water pump and the hose connection may be at a different angle or something. Might be worth checking out.

Dave

 

 

Could you post a pic where the hose connects to the water pump without the hose on it. Also in the very first pic you posted was the hose pushed all the way on the pump like it would normally be?

Edited September 3, 2014 by det0326

[1969vert 55]

looks like a 69 to me 70 and later went to the drivers side...

[det0326 179]

looks like a 69 to me 70 and later went to the drivers side...

 

Yeah I knew the mustangs were on the opposite side 70 and later but I was thinking he may have later pump from truck or LTD or something. After doing a couple of searches tho it seems all small blocks 70 and after

are on the drivers side so I don.t know what the OP problem is. I know he has a problem with lower brackets but that not going to change the 2 inches or so that he is off on the alignment.

Dave

Edited September 4, 2014 by det0326

[michael2938 24]

As far as I know, I would have an original '69 mustang water pump. The engine I have is a '69 351w that came from a Mustang Grande. That doesn't mean it wasn't changed at some point in it's life, of course.

 

Based on responses so far, I believe I have the correct radiator and incorrect lower mounting brackets. So I'm going to get the correct brackets and try it again. I don't think the lower hose was backwards, but I suppose it's possible. I do see from the picture above that someone posted, the hose does curve toward the center more, so maybe once I install the brackets and actually put the hose on it will form to the right place.

 

Or maybe I have a bad lower hose. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to try it out again for a few weeks. My car is 2.5 hours away from me at my father in law's shop, so I have to schedule time to make it out there to work on it. September is a busy month.

 

-Mike

[mach1mike 10]

my car was originally equipped w/351 "M" 4V with an FMX with A/C, power brakes, and power steering and it has those type radiator mounts and they are original to the car, I don't think it had anything to do with big block or not, it was the cooling option for what options your car came with

[michael2938 24]

my car was originally equipped w/351 "M" 4V with an FMX with A/C, power brakes, and power steering and it has those type radiator mounts and they are original to the car, I don't think it had anything to do with big block or not, it was the cooling option for what options your car came with

My car was originally equipped with a 302, front disc brakes, power brakes, power steering and air conditioning. Of course when I got the car in my possession it had almost none of that still attached.

 

Are you saying your brackets look like the ones I show in my first post? Can you post some pictures of your radiator sitting on the bracket and the hoses and how they fit?

[jmlay 80]

The lower brackets or wrong & or installed improperly, they to the strut rod brace only.

 

Edited September 14, 2014 by jmlay

[michael2938 24]

Well I have what I believe are the correct brackets now thanks to another member. I haven't installed them yet though.

 

What's strange is trying to figure out where the brackets I have came from. They were rusted to the car pretty good to the point the bolt head stripped clean off when trying to take it off. Based on how bad of shape they were in, it seemed like they were original to the car.

[jmlay 80]

I would venture to guess someone modified some brackets to fit the radiator they had installed. Hopefully the pictures above will help you install them. the orientations is not easy to figure out if you only have the parts and no pictures. The self tapping bolt goes in the punched hole that is in the strut rod brace, deep in the center of the "V".

[michael2938 24]

Thanks for the pictures. That will help!

 

My next concern after this now will be the hoses on the radiator for the cooling lines. If I recall, when I positioned my 5 blade fan in place, it might have been hitting one of those lines on the radiator when I tried to turn the fan blade. And if I put these correct mounts on, that will raise the radiator and the problem may get worse. Which means I may need to take another look at the motor mounts. I didn't realize there could be different motor mount options.

[michael2938 24]

I forgot to come back and update this some more. The correct radiator brackets allowed us to get the radiator installed correctly, but the fan blade was still hitting the bottom of where the cooling lines would be and the shroud. Somehow the engine was sitting too low and so we ended up adding a spacer to the motor mounts. Everything lines up very well now so far.

 

I still don't understand how we possibly have the wrong motor mounts, but it just doesn't work any other way. Apparently there are different kinds of motor mounts, tall/low? I can't find that option when I search for them on place's like CJ's.

 

-Mike

[Max Power 74]

I forgot to come back and update this some more. The correct radiator brackets allowed us to get the radiator installed correctly, but the fan blade was still hitting the bottom of where the cooling lines would be and the shroud. Somehow the engine was sitting too low and so we ended up adding a spacer to the motor mounts. Everything lines up very well now so far.

 

I still don't understand how we possibly have the wrong motor mounts, but it just doesn't work any other way. Apparently there are different kinds of motor mounts, tall/low? I can't find that option when I search for them on place's like CJ's.

 

-Mike

 

My engine sits low as well, and the fan is dangerously close to the tranny lines, and I have to cut out the bottom part of my shroud. This is with the mounts that came with my car and the replacement ones as well.

 

I understand convertibles came with lower mounts, but that is not what I ordered the second time around. Curious to what you used for a spacer.

[michael2938 24]

My engine sits low as well, and the fan is dangerously close to the tranny lines, and I have to cut out the bottom part of my shroud. This is with the mounts that came with my car and the replacement ones as well.

 

I understand convertibles came with lower mounts, but that is not what I ordered the second time around. Curious to what you used for a spacer.

Mine was too low for me to even consider cutting the shroud. The blade was going right through the lines. I wish I had gotten a picture, but it was just 2 spacers for each mount cut from a heavy duty/thick pipe. They are between the motor mount and over the bolt holes on the block. I'll post a picture of it in a couple weeks when I am back out working on the car.

 

I'm pretty sure I already have the tall style motor mounts but it's really hard to tell because I can't find any good pictures of info about the differences and when they were used.

 

-Mike

[1969_Mach1 333]

The fan in my 69 Mach 1 with a 351W is close to the bottom of the shroud as well. The clearance was minimal with a stock radiator and when I installed a Griffin rad I had to slot the mounting holes for the shroud and modify the shroud in the lower rad hose area to lower the shroud. Raising the motor can cause a few issues. The most common being hood clearance for a 351W depending on intake manifold and air cleaner combinations. What diameter fan are you using?

[michael2938 24]

The fan in my 69 Mach 1 with a 351W is close to the bottom of the shroud as well. The clearance was minimal with a stock radiator and when I installed a Griffin rad I had to slot the mounting holes for the shroud and modify the shroud in the lower rad hose area to lower the shroud. Raising the motor can cause a few issues. The most common being hood clearance for a 351W depending on intake manifold and air cleaner combinations. What diameter fan are you using?

I am using an original stock 5 blade fan that came off an ac car. Everything I have on the car so far are original '69 parts for a 351w w/ AC setup.

 

With the possible exception now of the motor mounts, those could potentially still be the wrong ones somehow. I don't recall ever seeing or verifying a part number on them.

 

-Mike

[1969_Mach1 333]

I know originally there were different motor mounts for convertible cars. They were about 1/2 inch lower than the coupe and fastback motor mounts. Today, I have only seen coupe and fastback OEM style motor mounts available.

 

This is a stretch because I think there is only one trans mount option. But have you verified the trans mount components are correct. Possibly the motor and trans angle is incorrect causing the front of the motor to be a little too low.

 

Like I said, mine is a factory A/C 351W car and the fan was close on the bottom as well. But that is with a 17" 6 blade Derale fan and I was able to rework the shroud to fix it.

[michael2938 24]

I know originally there were different motor mounts for convertible cars. They were about 1/2 inch lower than the coupe and fastback motor mounts. Today, I have only seen coupe and fastback OEM style motor mounts available.

 

This is a stretch because I think there is only one trans mount option. But have you verified the trans mount components are correct. Possibly the motor and trans angle is incorrect causing the front of the motor to be a little too low.

 

Like I said, mine is a factory A/C 351W car and the fan was close on the bottom as well. But that is with a 17" 6 blade Derale fan and I was able to rework the shroud to fix it.

Actually the transmission crossmember gave us quite a fight as well and we ended up drilling an extra hole in it to make it fit right. I picked up the right crossmember for an FMX at the Columbus swap meet last weekend so that will fix that problem. Though because of the drilled hole I don't think it will change the way the engine sits much.

 

I blame the PO for that one. :) That FMX and crossmember were installed on the car when we picked it up. My mistake for assuming they belonged together.

 

-Mike

[1969_Mach1 333]

Something is still not quite right. Shouldn't have to raise the motor for it to fit.

 

I don't know how many trans cross members there were. I went from an FMX to a 4sp without any issues using the FMX cross member. It didn't cross my mind there may be a different cross member. It's working fine, but now I'm curious.

 

Are those 5 gallon buckets and blocks of wood for jack stands supporting your freshly painted car?????

Edited December 1, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[michael2938 24]

Something is still not quite right. Shouldn't have to raise the motor for it to fit.

 

I don't know how many trans cross members there were. I went from an FMX to a 4sp without any issues using the FMX cross member. It didn't cross my mind there may be a different cross member. It's working fine, but now I'm curious.

Here is the one I had for my FMX that didn't fit right:

 

 

And here is the one I believe to be correct that will be going in soon:

 

 

Are those 5 gallon buckets and blocks of wood for jack stands supporting your freshly painted car?????

lol no, though I can see why you would say that. It does appear that way, but the car in the picture was on a rotisserie supported on both ends out of view. The buckets were just an extra precaution to keep the car from spinning if we accidentally left the bolt lose that allows it to spin.

 

Mike

[1969_Mach1 333]

Hate to say this. But, from your pictures, mine is shaped the upper picture (the one you said doesn't fit correctly). Again, mine is a 351W factory A/C car with an FMX trans. Plus, it also works with the 4sp. I installed. I think there is only one trans mount (insulator, not the cross member) for these cars regardless of trans type. Could somebody have possibly given you a trans mount for a different car or maybe a pickup? What didn't line up with the cross member?

[michael2938 24]

Hate to say this. But, from your pictures, mine is shaped the upper picture (the one you said doesn't fit correctly). Again, mine is a 351W factory A/C car with an FMX trans. Plus, it also works with the 4sp. I installed. I think there is only one trans mount (insulator, not the cross member) for these cars regardless of trans type. Could somebody have possibly given you a trans mount for a different car or maybe a pickup? What didn't line up with the cross member?

That's crazy, I don't understand how that can not cause you any problems. I have a factory 351W car with AC and FMX and that particular crossmember simply would not work. The holes to bolt it to the frame on the passenger side did not line up at all. They were about an inch or so off irrc. The transmission mount I have looks just like the ones you can buy off any of the mustang parts sites.

 

I'm almost positive that the second crossmember picture shows the correct one for me. Even on CJ Pony Parts, that first one is described as:

 

"This will fit all automatic, 3-speed and 4-speed transmissions for 200/289/302 engines. *Will not fit 351W and 351C with FMX transmissions or Big Blocks."

 

-Mike

Edited December 2, 2014 by michael2938

[1969_Mach1 333]

After some research I believe your second cross member is correct as you stated.

 

It just dawned on me why mine looks like your first cross member and my Mach 1 is a 351w and FMX trans car. I inherited this Mach 1 from an older brother. He initially had a 69 fastback with a C4 trans and was doing a restomod type of restoration. In the process he purchased the 69 Mach 1 from the original owner because it was in better condition and decided to scrap the 69 fastback project. However the previous owner had removed the motor and trans from the Mach 1 and sold the long block. Ultimately, I ended with both cars and both were dismantled to the shell with the Mach 1 on dollies. Since I was only able to locate one trans cross member it must have been from the fastback with the C4 trans. The original FMX cross member was either lost or my brother never got it from the previous owner.

 

Off hand, Perogie Enterprise is the only source I know of that would know with certainty and have a correct used and possibly NOS cross member. I briefly looked at Perogie's website and they list used trans cross members for C4, C6, FMX, 3 and 4sp. separately and each with a different price so there may be a difference. I am going to call them because now I am curious if mine is correct for my 4sp. even though it fits without issues. But again, I believe your second cross member is correct for the FMX.

 

On a positive note, you may be on the right track to solve the fan height (too low) issue.

Edited December 2, 2014 by 1969_Mach1

[Max Power 74]

Rather than raising my engine, I think I will get an aluminum radiator and switch to electric cooling fans. It's on my bucket list.

[michael2938 24]

1969 Mach1, let us know what you find out from Perogie.

 

Like I said, at least for now, all my height/clearance problems are solved now that we raised the engine to what I believe to be the correct stock height.

 

Of course I reserve the right to take that all back once we try to put the shaker and hood on. :)

[1969_Mach1 333]

Quick follow up: Well I phoned Perogie Enterprise prepared to purchase a different cross member for mine. I explained the situation that the cross member I have was from a 69 Mustang with a C4 and it is now on a 4sp. They told me it is correct for my combination, 4sp. and 351W. I didn't inquire about an FMX cross member.