Ignition Problems - HELP

[Chelby-Ann 47]

Chelby_Ann get some good pics of your wiring everything I noted before still seems to stand, make sure you check your relays are pushed in all the way.

 

I was pretty lucky and was able to get mine to turn over first try. What a nervous turn of the key that was for me LOL My first time restoring a car and never run wires in my life .. I was expecting fires everywhere! My timing was 180 out but that was easy to fix :sweatdrop:

 

Oh and the guys at AAW are great to work with in the tech dept, I had called them several times along the way. I think I was the guinee pig for the 70 upgrade kit, which just had the extension for the ignition switch running up the column.

 

Oh Man, thats exactly what I was hoping for and expecting but, NOTHING.

Here a few pix of my set up. I hope this will help point me in the right direction. I know it has to be something simple. I did get in contact with AAW and waiting on thier reply. I am hoping for a good day tommorow where I can start her up and move on.

[LindenBruce 27]

Wait a minute. Your coil says to use an external resistor. But I see a 12v wire going straight to the coil, then a lead coming from that coil terminal to a resistor that goes to a red lead on the distributor. I think that's wrong? The power wire to the coil has to go to the resistor first, then out the other side to the coil + terminal. Then the red wire from the distributor goes to the + side of the coil, not through the resistor right? Or is the red distributor wire needing 12V, in which case case it will connect to the 12v side of the resistor. Bruce

[LindenBruce 27]

Take a look at these. The "A" diagram is for distributor 12v on the red wire, the "B" is for distributor resisted on the red wire. I just got this Mallory diagram and indeed your distributor needs 12v on the red wire. As you currently have it the red wire is currently supplying the distributor with a resisted, read lower, power. And just to make sure, you have verified 12v to the coil lead right? Bruce

Edited August 31, 2012 by LindenBruce

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Chelby-an, rewire your ign setup to the diag LindenBruce provided above.

From your pic's what you have is wrong.

After the changes are made, Verify that you have voltage at the pos side of the coil with the key in the on position and the key in eng cranking position.

If you have lost voltage with key in eng crank position, you need to run a jumper wire from the I post of the starter sol to the coils + side.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Mach1Rider

[Chelby-Ann 47]

Chelby-an, rewire your ign setup to the diag LindenBruce provided above.

From your pic's what you have is wrong.

After the changes are made, Verify that you have voltage at the pos side of the coil with the key in the on position and the key in eng cranking position.

If you have lost voltage with key in eng crank position, you need to run a jumper wire from the I post of the starter sol to the coils + side.

 

Saturday Update

I did what Bruce and Mach1Rider suggested.

In the first picture when I turn the key to the on position and the eng crank postion I get voltage:w00t: BUT will not turn over:angry:.

In the second picture with a jumper wire to the "S" pole of the starter solenoid we have voltage and the engine will crank but no spark.

I have checked all the grounds and they are making good contact.

One thing I did notice with the ignition, it would crank over when the key was in the on position.

I feel that I am close but not ready to smoke that victory cigar.

What now?

[LoneWolf2U 136]

In your sec pic, take that red jumper wire at put it on the I post of the sol.

 

What are your voltage readings at the pink wire to the res block?

 

I am assuming the purple wire is from the keys start circut passing thru the net saftey switch.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Mach1Rider

[Chelby-Ann 47]

In your sec pic, take that red jumper wire at put it on the I post of the sol.

 

What are your voltage readings at the pink wire to the res block?

 

I am assuming the purple wire is from the keys start circut passing thru the net saftey switch.

 

With the battery hooked up and the negative lead on the negative post of the battey, the red lead on the + side of the coil the meter reads 11.41. Then I placed the red lead from the meter to the pink side of the resistor and get 11.41. This all occurs withthe key in the on position. If I try to start the car nothing happens. If I take the jumper from the + side of the coil to the S side of the solenoid the engine turns over no spark.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Working with the wiring dia, the purple wire is coming from the sol side of the ign switch (guessing) this wire should have voltage when the key is in the eng cranking position only.

This is what causes the eng to turn when key is in crank position.

Placing the jumper wire from the coil to the S on the sol will cause eng cranking with the key on.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Dis connect the starter lead for testing and Going back to basics, Start by verifying that there is voltage to the sol S post (purple wire) with key in crank positon only.

If no voltage with key in crank position, trace the wire back to key, it should go from sol S post thru neutral saftey for automatic's or for manuals straight to keys sol position.

Next is there voltage to the coil + side with the key in ON.

Verify the voltage is there when key is turned to start positon.

If not there needs to be that red jumper wire your using going from the I post of the sol to the pink side of the res block. Now there should be voltage with key in crank position.

If this all checks out, reinstall the starter lead to the sol. and test.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Mach1Rider

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Can't see in pic, verify the dist green lead is to - side of coil and red lead from res is + side of coil.

[Chelby-Ann 47]

No luck today. I am mentally drained. Worked all day on this problem. I will say that we ( I called a good friend to help me, sometimes you need a fresh look at things) made some progress, When we checked the voltage at the coil we did get almost 12V (wore the battery down cranking it all day) when we turned the key to the on position. So power to the coil is good. We cranked the engine over and still no spark. We started over and over again. Checked grounds, differnet combos. Right now we are happy with the set up.

One question about the coil. Checked with Ohm meter. With the meter set on 2K the meter reads .001 on the primary side. With the meter set on 20K the meter read 9.55 on the seconday side. The instructions posted earlier showed .75 to .81 ohms for the primary and 10,000 to 11,000 ohms on the secondary side. Are these numbers significant enough to indicate the coil is bad causing no spark.

[klevor 10]

Energy loss in the primary circuit can be caused by the wiring or loss or corroded terminals , the distributor , the coil or the condenser. Assuming you have good wire and followed the aaw install properly and checked the coil and rewired things over and over. I would check the unilite distributor and see if it is working properly also and wired correctly. They do go bad and it it part of your primary circuit for spark. Because if there is no spark or very weak spark the trouble is in the primary circuit, coil to distributor high tension lead or the coil.

Edited September 3, 2012 by klevor
more

[LindenBruce 27]

Could be a distributor issue for sure. Select the most sensitive voltage reading on your meter and place the probes one each on the green and red leads coming from your distributor. Make sure the leads are disconnected from the coil when you do this. Now, crank the engine over and watch your meter. You should see a series of voltage spike going up and down in reading as the engine cranks. If not, then apply 12v to the red wire as you take a reading and see what happens then. If you still don't get any readings it's very possible the pickup assembly in the distributor is bad and that's why it's not triggering the coil to fine the plugs.

 

What is interesting is that you got the same voltage reading going into and out of your resistor. The voltage coming out should be lower by at least 2-3 volts. May not be a problem though so lets concentrate on the no start issue.

 

Which setup are you happy with? In reference is it the first one, second one or the third one I sent you on my last post?

 

Also, the engine should not crank based on what wire you have connected to your ignition system. The cranking system is independent of the ignition system. If you have the ignition system hooked up correctly and the engine still won't crank then there is a separate issue at work, not surprising considering the complete re-wire. A no crank issue could be a bad or miss-adjusted park/neutral safety switch or one that is missing altogether. Is your car an auto or manual? Are you running a mini starter or the factory Ford starter?

 

If you are running a factory Ford starter you will need to run a wire from the crank position on your ignition switch to the "S" post on the starter solenoid. If you are running a mini starter this wire will run down to your starter instead. I'm sure the wire is already there in your harness it's just a matter of finding it and making a connection. If the engine still won't crank then there's a problem in the park/neutral switch system. You will need to track down those wires in your harness and work on those connections. The factory wires for the park/neutral switch enter into the engine compartment near the throttle cable and run down underneath the car along the transmission tunnel on the driver's side and connect at the switch on the side of the transmission. For an auto that will be at the shift lever. For a manual that will be at the back of the transmission where a switch is mounted to a plate that is actuated by the shift levers.

 

Let us know about these systems so we can continue to help diagnose the problem. Bruce

Edited September 3, 2012 by LindenBruce

[Chelby-Ann 47]

Well I spent all day Saturday and Monday working with 2 differnt people on the phone and with a friend by my side. We were able to fix the ignition start problem however none of us were able to solve the ignition problem. I even bought a new coil from NAPPA. I will say that we able to test the coil by attaching some leads from the battery to the coil and tap the negative wire from the battery to the negative side of the coil and we had voltage. I have attached photos of how I left the wiring today. The first pix is testing for spark. We still do not have spark from the coil or for that matter ignition. My plans tomorrow are to call AAW and Mallory for some direct help. We have started from scratch went thru all of the wiring and still no spark. If anyone thinks I should video tape the set up and post a link to U-Tube let me know. Thanks in advance for everyones help. I know there is a solution and my wife wishes for one NOW, LOL.

[LindenBruce 27]

Well, it's possible you have a dead ignition module in the distributor like has been suggested. Do you have access to a factory points distributor you can drop in just for test purposes? Maybe someone you know in a local Mustang club? I think you got the problem whipped. It may not sound like it from your perspective. Try a factory distributor and I'll bet you will hear your engine purrrr. Bruce

[LoneWolf2U 136]

From the last pic's posted on this problem, Move the red wire from the sol to the pink wire side of the res. The dist your using needs 12v to work and its not getting it in key crank position.

[70mstang 11]

There's something that looks funky with the pink ignition wire going to the resistor & the red wire to the distributor laying right on top of it. In the AAW instructions it notes that if you are actually using a resistor, (which not sure you need one with an electronic ignition).

The instructions have a pink wire to one side of the resistor, a yellow wire "not included" coming from the I terminal on the soleniod to the other side of the resistor and then continue the pink ignition wire to the distributor.

 

I'm not faniliar with the Mallory set up. so I could be off kilter. I just use a pertronix which only has the red & black wire.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

The resistor is for the coil not the dist.

The red wire from the sol I post is to supply voltage with key in cranking position.

What question has been failed to be answered is there voltage to the + side of the coil when key is in cranking position.

 

After that is answered, It may have a defective dist mod.

[Chelby-Ann 47]

The resistor is for the coil not the dist.

The red wire from the sol I post is to supply voltage with key in cranking position.

What question has been failed to be answered is there voltage to the + side of the coil when key is in cranking position.

 

After that is answered, It may have a defective dist mod.

 

The answer to this question is yes there is voltage to the + side of the coil when cranking.

I tested the Ignigition mOdule last night and is no good. I must have fried it during my set up:angry:

I'll post the results once I have it hooked up in a couple of days.

Thanks to all.

[LindenBruce 27]

There you go Chelby-Ann. Just because a part is new doesn't mean it's any good. I have had problems in the past with dead parts that were new. Welcome to the "dead bird" club!!! Bruce

 

 

 

P.S. - Post up a video of the engine running once you get it there. I think we all would like to hear her.

[Lemon Owner 11]

There you go Chelby-Ann. Just because a part is new doesn't mean it's any good. I have had problems in the past with dead parts that were new. Welcome to the "dead bird" club!

 

Oh yea, mine was on the weekend. Brand new transmission nuetral start buckup light switch. The case split open so I had to delicately push the terminals into their place and clamp it back together properly, damn thing.

[Chelby-Ann 47]

I'm On Top Of The World....Chelby-Ann is ALIVE!!!

Changed the Ignition Control Module and she came to life on the first try.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT!

I have some video and will link it up in the morning.

Bill Nicholson

Pfafftown, North Carolina:w00t:

[LindenBruce 27]

FRACKING A CHELBY-ANN!!!! I can't wait to hear her run dude. Bruce

[1969 coupe 15]

:thumbup: Great job getting it worked out. Now I know I need to get by so I can hear her in person.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

:thumbup1:..... Now where's that video?