Tranny Install Binding-Engine Can't Turn

[crankywanker 10]

Hey folks. Got a 351 cleveland and i'm installing my C-4 transmission with flywheel and dust cover. Everytime I get the tranny mounted up I have to pull it in with the bolts. It's just not working out right. I've had a c-4 mated up to it before but I didnt put the C-4 in myself. So the problem is that after I get the torque converter bolted in and then pull the tranny into the engine by bolts when I go to turn over the engine it won't turn over with a ratchet. But as soon as I loosen up the bolts on the transmission..WHAM! I can turn the engine. I just can't figure out why it's binding like it is. I thought maybe my dust cover was bent so I replaced it with a new one but it's still binding. Now the only thing I can figure out is maybe the smaller spline isnt going all the way into the torque converter...? could this be? that everytime I put the t/c into the tranny it doesn't go all the way in?? I need some help I'm going crazy!!! this is my fourth weekend trying to install it!!!

Edited April 18, 2011 by crankywanker

[SM69Mach 68]

I think there are differetn size input shafts on the C4's so you need to make sure that the TQ is the correct size to fit. If it isnt going all the way on the shaft and engaging the pump then it is certianly going to bind.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Assuming that you haven't broke the trans pump already, Install the tork conv into the trans first. There is 2 clicks heard and felt when the conver is installed when turning it, this is when the pump dogs and splines are engaged.

The trans should slide up to the block without using the bolts to pull it in.

If it doesn't then you have something wrong.

The conver nuts are the last thing you install before the inspection plate.

[crankywanker 10]

Assuming that you haven't broke the trans pump already, Install the tork conv into the trans first. There is 2 clicks heard and felt when the conver is installed when turning it, this is when the pump dogs and splines are engaged.

The trans should slide up to the block without using the bolts to pull it in.

If it doesn't then you have something wrong.

The conver nuts are the last thing you install before the inspection plate.

 

Okay thanks guys.

[crankywanker 10]

I slide the t/c into the transmission first everytime. both input shafts go in and the smallest input shaft i put in the t/c first and make sure it goes in. then slide the rest of the t/c onto shaft #2. Once that is done I raise the transmission up to the flywheel and dust cover and when it's put together the engine won't turn with a ratchet. I'm still at a loss.

[SM69Mach 68]

I slide the t/c into the transmission first everytime. both input shafts go in and the smallest input shaft i put in the t/c first and make sure it goes in. then slide the rest of the t/c onto shaft #2. Once that is done I raise the transmission up to the flywheel and dust cover and when it's put together the engine won't turn with a ratchet. I'm still at a loss.

 

Are you sure it isnt slipping off the input shaft as you mate it to the motor? Other than that I am at a loss as well.

[crankywanker 10]

Are you sure it isnt slipping off the input shaft as you mate it to the motor? Other than that I am at a loss as well.

 

if it is it must only be slightly falling forward. this is the only other thing i can think of and I will try this next. I'll support it and hold it in as it connects... this is actually the 2nd time ive had this problem. i had it when i was putting in my old engine/c4 together about 2 years ago. my buddy finally just yanked out the engine and tranny and mated them together while both were out of the car and it setup great.

[crankywanker 10]

on my next install to troubleshoot it I am going to remove the inspection plate..

[SM69Mach 68]

it wouldn't take much to cause a bind like that, if it is slipping of thise spline in the front it still may appear that it is enggage properly and that added inch or so is needed to make it all fit and not bind up. I hope you get this figured out, that can be frustrating.

[crankywanker 10]

it wouldn't take much to cause a bind like that, if it is slipping of thise spline in the front it still may appear that it is enggage properly and that added inch or so is needed to make it all fit and not bind up. I hope you get this figured out, that can be frustrating.

 

 

thanks I appreciate it. It's literally the only thing standing in my way of driving it for the first time in 2 years...

 

Soon I'll be back! :gun_bandana:

[Grabber70Mach 107]

If you are sure that your TC is seated properly in the transmission, than my next thought is the TC drain plug lined up with the hole in the flex plate. Also you should not have to pull the transmission up to the motor with the bolts. Something is not right if you need to do this, as has been previously stated it mat have damage your trans pump.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Grabber70Mach

[crankywanker 10]

If you are sure that your TC is seated properly in the transmission, than my next thought is the TC drain plug lined up with the hole in the flex plate. Also you should not have to pull the transmission up to the motor with the bolts. Something is not right if you need to do this, as has been previously stated it mat have damage your trans pump.

 

 

yes i thought of the drain plug issues as well and I did line up the two drain plugs into the holes on the flex plate. I won't be pulling the tranny into the engine anymore with the bolts. I'm just not going to do that anymore. If it doesn't mate up easily I'll think of something else. Maybe my inspection plate is just bent enough to stop it.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

When the conver is installed correctly into the trans, place a straight edge

across the bellhousing and there should be approx 3/4 inch gap from the conver nose to the straight edge. if it is sitting flush with the bell it is NOT fully seated into the pump.

 

For ease of trans install, put the flywheel mounting holes at 12,3,6,9 oclock positions.

match conve studs to same insuring the drain plug has matching hole before trying to place the trans in.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Mach1Rider

[crankywanker 10]

When the conver is installed correctly into the trans, place a straight edge

across the bellhousing and there should be approx 3/4 inch gap from the conver nose to the straight edge. if it is sitting flush with the bell it is NOT fully seated into the pump.

 

For ease of trans install, put the flywheel mounting holes at 12,3,6,9 oclock positions.

match conve studs to same insuring the drain plug has matching hole before trying to place the trans in.

 

thanks for giving me that measurement. I will definitely check that.

:rockon:

[brianrupp78 10]

I had the same exact problem with mine for some reason, 351c and c4...

 

I think after I had finaggled it enough it finally worked. Just keep trying to line it up and get it working, Is it binding up as your trying to turn the flywheel to bolt the TC to the flywheel? If i remember correctly thats where my isuue was but it was a while ago.

 

Have you tried turning the motor both ways?

[crankywanker 10]

I had the same exact problem with mine for some reason, 351c and c4...

 

I think after I had finaggled it enough it finally worked. Just keep trying to line it up and get it working, Is it binding up as your trying to turn the flywheel to bolt the TC to the flywheel? If i remember correctly thats where my isuue was but it was a while ago.

 

Have you tried turning the motor both ways?

 

 

no i've just been turning it clockwise but i figured you could turn it either way right?! the problem comes in when i start bolting the tranny bellhousing to the engine, it just locks up and the engine wont turn over. sooo. I'll keep fooling with it. I knew someone had to have the same trouble I was having.

 

 

i love 351Cleveland's. theyre great engines(im planning on building a stroker 351C w/ 4v heads eventually)

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Have you counted the teeth on your flexplate?

If it has 164 tooth plate, that may be your problem using the C4.

IIRC the C4 takes a 157 tooth flex plate.

Look inside the bellhousing to see if there is any marks on it form the outer rings teeth from binding up against it.

[Crazyhorse 21]

there were 157 tooth and 164 tooth c4's. the bellhousings are different though, and a 164 tooth flexplate may bind in a 157 tooth bellhousing. we had the opposite problem last year, 164 tooth bell, and a 157 tooth flexplate. it causes the starter to miss by about a half inch IIRC.

[crankywanker 10]

yeah i counted that. it's 157 tooth. i believe i found a thread on my problem from other guys having the same issue. so as was suggested earlier i believe my converter isn't seated properly.

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RSbGNkn41i4J:www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/674311-351c-fmx-c4-swap.html+C-4+transmission+install+binding&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

[crankywanker 10]

I'm starting to think I need to put my t/c in over and over again and measure how deep it goes each time and try to re-create how i might have put it in when under the car.

[LoneWolf2U 136]

I don't take enough pictures when I am doing things, But I found this one of the C4 going back in the 68 when I was fabbing up ne lines.

You can see how far back in the Tc is.

 

Make a temp holder to kee Tc in place during install.

I use the 2 lower holes where the insp plate goes by bending a Z looking

metal bolted in one to hold the Tc in while positioning the trans to install it.

 

Tip for installing Tc, The first click you hear is the input shaft engaging the splines. The second is more of a thump with the Tc sliding inward about a half an inch, That is the Tc engaging the pump.

[crankywanker 10]

And.......

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-ford-techboard/431685-c4-transmission-installation-problem.html

[crankywanker 10]

your t/c looks more inset than mine... if i take out the smaller shaft and insert it into the t/c and then put that back into the other will that hurt anything?

[Grabber70Mach 107]

Is there an ideal way to measure the converter and transmission outside the car to make sure you should have the proper clearance between the converter and the flex plate before installation? Answer: Yes, you can use a straight edge, laying it across the face of the bell housing. (Engine side) Then with the converter installed in transmission, take a ruler and measure the distance from the straight edge down to the mounting pad of the converter. The measurement should be as follows:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ford C-6 1 1/8" from Bell housing to Pads Ford C-4 1 1/8" from Bell housing to Pads Ford AOD & AODE 1 1/8" from Bell housing to Pads

[crankywanker 10]

what's the measurement "to pads" where are the pads? I measured with a straight edge from the bellhousing to the nose of the t/c and it was flush.....BUT THEN! i wiggled it around and rotated it and wiggled it some more and it went in.... then I laid the straight edge down and whaddaya know! It sat back atleast an inch. Now the real test comes when I go to set it up with the engine.