High beam indicator and interior turn signals not working

[rcantu01 0]

Crud,

 

My '69 failed inspection, because the interior turn signals and high beam indicator stopped working. Both were working the last time I remember checking, and - strangely - the hood scoop-mounted signals work just fine (sheesh - you'd think this might have satisfied the TS requirement).

 

I doubt three bulbs would burn out at once. Any ideas about what to check or may be at fault?

 

The instrument panel has never been off, and I'd rather not disturb it if it's not necessary.

 

Thanks,

 

Ramon

 

Posted also on VMF

[jerry69 10]

If your high beams and turn signals are working on the outside then I would bet your problem is the instrument circuit panel... Make sure all the copper connection points are clean and check the grounds.... If you need a schematic of the 69 Mustang you can download one at http://midlife66.com/wiring/wiring.html after you download it the file that has that section is 69MUST All 3, the 2 turn signals and your high beams are located just about in the middle half way down.... Hope this helps.

[rcantu01 0]

Bumping this topic to ask if maybe the headlight or dimmer switches are variables?

 

I thought the circuit board was suspect only when the entire dash (gauges and lights) quit. In my case the dash lights are fine, and even dim if I turn the headlight switch.

 

Other suggestions? This is thwarting me getting get her inspected (after getting the C4 rebuilt, she's running better than ever, with no leaks in sight!).

 

Thanks,

 

Ramon

Edited October 28, 2008 by rcantu01
bad typing

[foothilltom 33]

I think Jerry's on the right track here. If the actual systems work and the indicator lights do not, your problem is NOT with the wiring or a short. I think the best thing you could do is to pull the dash pad, remove the offending bulb sockets from behind the instrument cluster (you can do this carefully w/out removing the cluster) and make sure they're good (put 12V across them and see if they light). If so, lightly sand the copper contacts and bend them back into shape to engage the copper on the circuit board. It's possible the bulbs are out, so that solution should be obvious.

 

Good luck.

Tom

[rcantu01 0]

Bumping this again, due to much progress and a new issue,

 

I did finally remove the dash and bench test all the lamp holders and replaced all the bulbs.

 

Everything worked when I first reinstalled the dash (including the turn signals and high beam light, and the odomoeter after 15 years :-), but the dash lights flickered when I dimmed them via the headlight switch, and eventually turned off.

 

I swapped in a new NAPA headlight switch, but the dash background lights won't come on again (signal and high beams are okay, and the dome light turns on when switch is turned).

 

I tested the switch while it was hanging: does it maybe need to be grounded to the dash? If so, wouldn't none of the lights work in that case?

Edited August 13, 2009 by rcantu01
Updated title

[foothilltom 33]

Hmmmm...I wonder if your bad dimmer switch might have shorted and blown something along the way. Obviously your bulbs *weren't* bad, but I suppose they could be now. I imagine you checked all fuses as well? That little episode where your lights went out sounds like the root event.

 

As always, you can play the game of measuring for 12V across your various dash lights. This is a fun game that requires removing the dash pad (i got to the point where mine stayed on with velcro) and putting your meter across the various lights on your dash panel. If you have 12V when you're supposed to, your bulbs are probably blown. If you don't have 12V, you may not have installed your dimmer switch properly.

 

I realize this isn't entirely helpful, but it's all I gots. :)

 

Tom

[jag 10]

I had a somewhat similiar experience however my experience was everything worked well until I put on the head lights and then only one turn signal would work. Turn off the headlights and everything would work again. I installed a new turn signal flasher and every thing works fine. If you have not changed this, do it. It is a cheap way to rule that out of the equation.

JAG

[ETstang 10]

This is a question for foothilltom - Velcro the dash pad ????

I have had my dash pad on and off Too Many times - and that just caught my eye -

Where did you put Velcro so the dash pad would stay on and allow you to drive - or did you not drive it that way ???

 

It does sound like a great idea

Thx

Dixk

[Pakrat 1,043]

Hey rcantu01, not to get off topic but are we supposed to be looking for nine differences in the two photos in your signature or something? If not then I hope they aren't before and after pics! (J/K) :tongue_smilie:

[foothilltom 33]

Hey EStang, as it turns out, my son did drive his car with the dash pad velcro'd on for some months while we were diagnosing the nasty electrical issues. It was too painful to keep screwing it back in (as it didn't fit that great in spots).

 

Basically, it was trial and error, but I wound up putting strips essentially where the sheet metal screws go. I found that the best "grip" was along the top of the dash, but for all I know, only one piece of velcro was actually holding. At the end of the day, it was about keeping it in place so that a jack-rabbit start (my son wouldn't do that!) wouldn't result in a lap full of dash pad.

 

Alas, all problems have been fixed and the dash is now screwed back in...

 

Hope this helps.

[ETstang 10]

Hey foothiltom - thanks

I am going to give that a try with Velcro on all three screw points

It might hold the pad in place better to get those screws back-in when time to finalize the mounting

Thx again

dick

[rcantu01 0]

Hey rcantu01, not to get off topic but are we supposed to be looking for nine differences in the two photos in your signature or something? If not then I hope they aren't before and after pics! (J/K) :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL, Pak! Talk about delayed response! I've been working too hard, and unfortunately away from the 'Stang and the forum.

 

I'd like to say, "yeah, try to find where I covered the Lime Gold with Ford's new Legend Lime," (-: but in truth my signature somehow got tweaked.

 

Anywho - I finally had time to trim the generic bracket for the NAPA light switch and properly install it, but no luck - still no dash lights.

 

I'm still puzzled that the HB indicator and turn signals work, and they're in the same cluster as the background lights. I haven't pulled fuses, but I didn't think there was one dedicated to just the background ones.

 

I'll stay on it - almost ready to resort to velcro (-:

[rcantu01 0]

Hmmmm...I wonder if your bad dimmer switch might have shorted and blown something along the way. Obviously your bulbs *weren't* bad, but I suppose they could be now. I imagine you checked all fuses as well? That little episode where your lights went out sounds like the root event...

 

You gave me too much credit, Tom,

 

I was re-reading the thread, and realized it didn't occur to me that the non-indicator dash lights might be on a separate circuit with it's own fuse. A quick scan of the manual, and 10 minutes later I'm staring at a blown 4 amp fuse (-:

 

I'm chomping at the bit to find a 24-hour Wallyworld or parts store to get fuses, but I'm letting reason prevail and waiting until tomorrow.

 

This doesn't mean something else isn't wrong and it won't blow again, but I'm almost sure this'll do it.

 

Thanks for the guidance,

 

Ramon

[foothilltom 33]

I have a good feeling about your replacement fuse sorting out some of your issues. I don't know if I said this in this thread, but during my boy's resto-mod, we cured some problems by just replacing all the fuses (cleaning out the contacts in the fuse panel along the way). Just a thought.

 

Best of luck.

Tom

[rcantu01 0]

@#$%&! :cursing:

 

A new fuse and the lights were back. I checked them again before bolting everything down, and all seemed well. A check at the end, though, threw me for a loop.

 

Now the turn signals and flashers work (weakly) with the lights off , but not at all when i turn them on. After trying different combinations they quit working entirely, then start working again after waiting a few minutes. Weirder still, when they are working, they interrupt the radio signal.

 

I have noticed that the turn signal lever stays locked for the left, but not the right, so I know the TS switch is due for a replacement. But, does it interact with that many circuits? For an average of $99 it must do some kind of magic! (-:

[rmarks 20]

But, does it interact with that many circuits? For an average of $99 it must do some kind of magic! (-:

 

Well, by replacing mine my horns worked again.

[foothilltom 33]

Hi Ramon, sorry to be on the slow bus here, but are you saying that your headlights, interior lights, and dash lights are now working well when you activate your new headlamp switch (following the fuse replacement)? And you can dim the lights successfully as well?

 

And furthermore, are you saying your new gremlins appear when introducing the turn signals?

 

If so, I would encourage you to consider replacing your turn signal switch...the magical $99 part. Not only does it sound like your cam is broken (unable to stay locked in the right position), but it sounds like you may have a high-resistance short in that baby as well.

 

This switch has 9 wires going through it that control far more than the turn signals. I replaced the switch in my boy's coupe to solve several electrical maladies. In my latest GT coupe project, my left rear (only) brake and signal light doesn't work and I've diagnosed it down to this switch (waiting to save some dough for parts). Interestingly, the PO attempted to partially solve this problem by jumping an extra wire from the left hood signal back to the trunk -- creating a little wiring mystery for me 23 years later. I think lots of our cars have mystery-wiring that was introduced by previous owners who probably didn't understand what would have been solved with a new TS switch.

 

But I digress.

 

If you go this route, be extremely careful when replacing the 9 wires that run down the column to the connector below the dash. Get one wrong and you'll have mysteries a plenty. I know first hand. I'll be doing another one here in a few weeks.

 

Electrical problems are a bastard, but dang is it satisfying when you solve them! Good luck.

 

Tom

[rcantu01 0]

Well, I was going to say "yes and yes,"

 

The headlights and interior and dash lights (including dimming) are now working well when I activate the new headlamp switch, and the gremlins do appear when introducing the turn signals.

 

It appears,though, that I've solved the problem, but the fix came from left field.

 

I tried to start the car, and found that the battery drained (slowing revs down to clicking). I jumped it, and took the car for a quick spin around the block, discovering that the signals seemed to be working.

 

I then took the battery to get fully recharged and found out it was bad. A new battery later and all the gremlins I saw seem to be gone!

 

While I never started the car during my diagnostics, the lights always turned on very brightly, so I never suspected that the turn signals drew enough power to make a difference.

 

So while I'll still need the TS switch (or at least the cam) to hold the lever in place, it apparently wasn't the problem.

 

I find a final thing (is there ever a final thing :-) running through all the lights: the reverse lights are coming on. The turn on briefly as I switch into reverse, but then turn off.

 

I'm hoping it's because the shifter is sloppy (will next take a stab at putting in AT shifter bushings), and assume that the switch is tied therein somewhere.

 

Lessons learned so far:

 

1. Some bulbs were bad, so cluster removal was necessary.

2. Don't bite off more than you can chew at once: I hadn't mentioned that - with the dash already off (the dreaded "while I'm at it"s) - I tried to get the radio to work. Connecting a new speaker I'm sure killed the fuse I didn't know existed. This led to $s for the new HL switch I didn't need.

 

Regardless, there is progress! (-: