Looking for a 408w engine builder in southern 5

[lalojamesliz 56]

First I wanted to use the std bore c9 351w block I have and order the stroker parts and then I found ad performance and was going to use them but I found some uncomfortable reviews.
 So now I would rather just find a good shop/builder that I can drive my block and parts to and If any assembly issues come up I have them close by.

I'm in Bakersfield and the closer the better but I will drive if I have too.

I know most shops are good but if I'm going to drop this kind of cash for a shortblock I want someone that has a good reputation with these engines....

My wife told me to assemble the shortblock myself but I don't want to how to measure bearing clearances and other important critical measurements with a high HP and high $$$$ engine but the more i think about it and the countless horespower tv shows I've watched lol give me feeling like i can do it

[RPM 1,190]

I can only advise you not to use Reynolds Automotive Machine on Alta Vista in Bakersfield. I gave them a simple job of sleeving my rods for floating pistons and they screwed them up. Their shop is pristine, but their work is not. Ridge Runner or Rsanter might have a good local shop they use.

[barnett468 418]

Do you have the parts yet?

If not do you know what you need or do you want suggestions?

The closer you find one the better, but if you can't find one nearby and want to drive to Orange County, my friend might have time to do it.

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

I can only advise you not to use Reynolds Automotive Machine on Alta Vista in Bakersfield. I gave them a simple job of sleeving my rods for floating pistons and they screwed them up. Their shop is pristine, but their work is not. Ridge Runner or Rsanter might have a good local shop they use.

Wow, that's the shop I was going to use!

Thanks for the heads up on that :)

[lalojamesliz 56]

6 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

Do you have the parts yet?

If not do you know what you need or do you want suggestions?

The closer you find one the better, but if you can't find one nearby and want to drive to Orange County, my friend might have time to do it.

 

 

 

I don't I have the parts yet but I'm getting the funds for my mustang in a few days so I would say Monday or Tuesday.....

I would love suggestions, I currently have a 69 mustang 351w bare block, timing cover and a new air gap manifold and a new msd digital 6al box.

I will buy a  custom cam from ed Curtis over at FTI and want to order afr 205 heads

I purchased a used 4r70w that is built to handle roughly 1000 hp along with a ptc converter with 3-3500 stall. 

Gears .....2.84, 1.63, 1.00, .78

I currently have a 9" rear with a open 28 spline diff. 

I was thinking about a strange 31 spline truetrac diff/axle set up, maybe a 35 spline only if I had too. As for the ratio, I don't know what to get yet

[lalojamesliz 56]

I don't know what lifters, but the linked ones from ed Curtis look nice but $$$

I a carb that's 850 vacuum should be good right?

I also have a large trans cooler but do you think 3-3500 stall is too high for street/track? Most Street speed limits where I live are recommended to 45-55 ;)

[lalojamesliz 56]

I'm thinking of a shortblock from CHP  since they aren't far from me and look good for 2700 but I want to have a shortblock that can handle 600+ and I don't know if their $2700 shortblock can handle that or more. 

Or I can just machine my c9 block and order a stroker kit from fordstrokers and build my C9 shortblock but I've never built a shortblock. Just a couple of head gasket jobs

What rockers?  So many questions and lots of money but I'm worried if I'll have enough for the whole car.

[Rsanter 152]

I always do my own.

if you want the best builder in the  state I would say it is Joe Begosion in Fresno. What I don't know is if he is still doing it.

 

there was a motorcycle engine builder in Bakersfield that went under the name of Curtis craft. I don't recall the shop but all of his machine work went to a place in Bakersfield. I visited the shop one time with a friend and was impressed with their organization and the shape,of their equipment.

assembling an engine is not tough and like I said I always do my own, only thing you need to concern with on a stroker is the rotating clearances.

 

bob

[barnett468 418]

 

I will post more info later but if you want a custom cam I would go to Chris Straub , He is far more knowledgeable than Curtis and far more reputable and far more friendly and isn't just out to get your money like Curtis seems to be.

It would be best if you posted exactly what you want out of the engine . A true 600 hp engine is ridiculous for a street car.

If you want big power I would build a 418 instead.

AFR 205 heads are pricey, so if you are on a budget then Trick Flow heads are a great option and will get you similar power.

If you want big power I would use a forged internally balanced crank and an ATI damper.

If you want a hydraulic lifter roller, I would use one of the Morel lifters . Chris Straub built the engine for Morels drag car.

I wouldn't buy parts from ford strokers either  You can get most of what you need directly from Summit Racing with a no hassle return policy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

42 minutes ago, barnett468 said:

 

I will post more info later but if you want a custom cam I would go to Chris Straub , He is far more knowledgeable than Curtis and far more reputable and far more friendly and isn't just out to get your money like Curtis seems to be.

It would be best if you posted exactly what you want out of the engine . A true 600 hp engine is ridiculous for a street car.

If you want big power I would build a 418 instead.

AFR 205 heads are pricey, so if you are on a budget then Trick Flow heads are a great option and will get you similar power.

If you want big power I would use a forged internally balanced crank and an ATI damper.

If you want a hydraulic lifter roller, I would use one of the Morel lifters . Chris Straub built the engine for Morels drag car.

I wouldn't buy parts from ford strokers either  You can get most of what you need directly from Summit Racing with a no hassle return policy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind 600hp, I ment that that's probably the most id ever want for this engine to handle if I were to take it to a 1/4 mile strip and I was going to use laughing gas for a extra kick. 

I remember reading 400 makes these cars a handful on the street but if I'm going to spend this kind of cash I would want it to make at least 550hp. I'll try to be careful ;)

I didn't know about Chris Straub. I'll look into him. I'll admit I wasn't happy seeing a cam kit for 1300 from ed Curtis that includes the cam, lifters, springs and pushrods but I was going with it because I didn't know about anyone else that was good. Trickflow heads are only like$100 less no? I was going with the afr 205's because that's what I've seen over the years that work great with 408w builds. 

What trickflow heads are you talking about barnett468?

It's hard knowing what parts to get for me because reading these forums is the ONLY way I learn this and different forums have different advice/info. I have plenty of friends but none of them build their cars like us and none of them have anything with a carb. 

Im 33 yrs old and I'm the oldest out of my car friends group:(

[barnett468 418]

12 hours ago, lalojamesliz said:

I wouldn't mind 600hp, I ment that that's probably the most id ever want for this engine to handle if I were to take it to a 1/4 mile strip and I was going to use laughing gas for a extra kick. 

I remember reading 400 makes these cars a handful on the street but if I'm going to spend this kind of cash I would want it to make at least 550hp. I'll try to be careful ;)

I didn't know about Chris Straub. I'll look into him. I'll admit I wasn't happy seeing a cam kit for 1300 from ed Curtis that includes the cam, lifters, springs and pushrods but I was going with it because I didn't know about anyone else that was good. Trickflow heads are only like$100 less no? I was going with the afr 205's because that's what I've seen over the years that work great with 408w builds. 

What trickflow heads are you talking about barnett468?

It's hard knowing what parts to get for me because reading these forums is the ONLY way I learn this and different forums have different advice/info. I have plenty of friends but none of them build their cars like us and none of them have anything with a carb. 

Im 33 yrs old and I'm the oldest out of my car friends group:(

 

CAM GRINDER

Here's Chris Straubs contact info . Unlike some other people, he will talk to you without you having to fill out any forms first or without having to send him your bank statement or anything else . He also won't drivel on bloviating about how great he is . I have spoken to him several times and have sent several people to him and he is consistently courteous, polite, and respectful . I only deal with people whom have these traits and can trust , I can assure you that Ed Morel has enough money to be able to have his engine built by anyone he wants and he chose Chris Straub . He has also made cams for some of the Engine Masters entrants and has made them for a National Championship winning boat.

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/

 

Chris Straub sells parts as well, and although he does not have the lowest prices, he will give you a slight discount if you buy a lot of parts from him.

 

LIFTERS

Exactly which lifters was curtis selling you . Some of them are quite pricey, like around $700.00 . I know where to get a fairly good deal on most of the morel lifters and can give you that info . Solid lifters are less money then the ultra high perf tool steel morel ones, but morel also makes a less expensive one but it is not as strong so it is not suggested for use in some high spring pressure and high revving apps.

 

TRACTION

I would use cal tracs and mickey thompson et street radials if you want the most traction without tubbing it.

 

STROKER KIT PRICE

Eagle is typically less money and just about as good as all the other chinese ones . Don't believe any stories you might read about Eagle cranks having problems . That was long ago and not all the probs were due to the cranks. 

 

CYLINDER HEAD PRICE

I don't know where you are getting your prices from but the AFR'S are twice as much as the Trick Flow heads.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/intake-runner-volume-cc/205cc?N=4294918484%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294951337%2B4294918378&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

 

PISTONS

Unless you are going to use nitrous or a blower etc, I would use 4032 material pistons instead of 2618 material . Irregardless of material type, I would use custom dished pistons that mirror the combustion chamber . My friend randy gillis makes them and so do a few others like Diamond and Wiseco.

http://www.racetech.com/

 

HORSEPOWER VS INTAKE MANIFOLD

You really should get a different intake like a Victor Jr or or Sr if you want upward of 550 hp but this will cause at least some loss of power in the lower rpm range but if you want a high revving engine and fairly low gears like 391's, the loss won't make a big difference.

 

CARB SIZE

Yes, an 850 like you mentioned is a safe bet, however, I would use an annular booster type . Quick Fuel carbs are the best bang for the buck . Chris Straub has recommended AED carbs before but I don't know much about them . What I definitely would not use is the Holley Ultra HP carbs as I have seen many people have a lot of problems with them.

 

CAMSHAFTS

If you are on a budget and want t save some money using a production cam, the ones below will get you over 500 hp guaranteed . In your case I would use 1.72 rockers with either cam.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1671&gid=289

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-220275-10

 

 

FORUM "EXPERTS"

Yes, it is easy to get confused by conflicting info posted by people . Unfortunately there are many well intentioned people posting info on forums that is not ideal or is sometimes even outright wrong . There are some very knowledgeable people here as well as on the yellow bullet and speed talk forums . I have been building engines and restoring cars for 45 years so I have figured out what works really well for street builds but others like Chris Straub know far more and also build outright racing engines which I do not.

 

PS - Chris Straub is also a member of this site . He signed up after I sent someone from here to him but the regular site he posts on is http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/index.php

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[barnett468 418]

.

Here is an article you night like about a 675 hp 418 stroker.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0702phr-budget-418ci-windsor/

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

7 hours ago, barnett468 said:

 

CAM GRINDER

Here's Chris Straubs contact info . Unlike some other people, he will talk to you without you having to fill out any forms first or without having to send him your bank statement or anything else . He also won't drivel on bloviating about how great he is . I have spoken to him several times and have sent several people to him and he is consistently courteous, polite, and respectful . I only deal with people whom have these traits and can trust , I can assure you that Ed Morel has enough money to be able to have his engine built by anyone he wants and he chose Chris Straub . He has also made cams for some of the Engine Masters entrants and has made them for a National Championship winning boat.

http://www.straubtechnologies.com/

 

Chris Straub sells parts as well, and although he does not have the lowest prices, he will give you a slight discount if you buy a lot of parts from him.

 

LIFTERS

Exactly which lifters was curtis selling you . Some of them are quite pricey, like around $700.00 . I know where to get a fairly good deal on most of the morel lifters and can give you that info . Solid lifters are less money then the ultra high perf tool steel morel ones, but morel also makes a less expensive one but it is not as strong so it is not suggested for use in some high spring pressure and high revving apps.

 

TRACTION

I would use cal tracs and mickey thompson et street radials if you want the most traction without tubbing it.

 

STROKER KIT PRICE

Eagle is typically less money and just about as good as all the other chinese ones . Don't believe any stories you might read about Eagle cranks having problems . That was long ago and not all the probs were due to the cranks. 

 

CYLINDER HEAD PRICE

I don't know where you are getting your prices from but the AFR'S are twice as much as the Trick Flow heads.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/cylinder-heads/make/ford/engine-size/5-8l-351/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor/intake-runner-volume-cc/205cc?N=4294918484%2B4294951343%2B4294951338%2B4294951337%2B4294918378&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

 

PISTONS

Unless you are going to use nitrous or a blower etc, I would use 4032 material pistons instead of 2618 material . Irregardless of material type, I would use custom dished pistons that mirror the combustion chamber . My friend randy gillis makes them and so do a few others like Diamond and Wiseco.

http://www.racetech.com/

 

HORSEPOWER VS INTAKE MANIFOLD

You really should get a different intake like a Victor Jr or or Sr if you want upward of 550 hp but this will cause at least some loss of power in the lower rpm range but if you want a high revving engine and fairly low gears like 391's, the loss won't make a big difference.

 

CARB SIZE

Yes, an 850 like you mentioned is a safe bet, however, I would use an annular booster type . Quick Fuel carbs are the best bang for the buck . Chris Straub has recommended AED carbs before but I don't know much about them . What I definitely would not use is the Holley Ultra HP carbs as I have seen many people have a lot of problems with them.

 

CAMSHAFTS

If you are on a budget and want t save some money using a production cam, the ones below will get you over 500 hp guaranteed . In your case I would use 1.72 rockers with either cam.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1671&gid=289

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-220275-10

 

 

FORUM "EXPERTS"

Yes, it is easy to get confused by conflicting info posted by people . Unfortunately there are many well intentioned people posting info on forums that is not ideal or is sometimes even outright wrong . There are some very knowledgeable people here as well as on the yellow bullet and speed talk forums . I have been building engines and restoring cars for 45 years so I have figured out what works really well for street builds but others like Chris Straub know far more and also build outright racing engines which I do not.

 

PS - Chris Straub is also a member of this site . He signed up after I sent someone from here to him but the regular site he posts on is http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/index.php

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll definitely give Chris a call.

What lifters would you recommend and where can I buy them?

I wanted the widest rear tires I can fit with just fender rolling . I saw 275's can do that 

Eagle kits are fine with me as long as if can support the power I'm after but if I buy the kit can I choose 4032 material pistons? I'll look into it....

The AFR 205 heads are 2045.00 for the pair and the trickflow 11r 205 heads are 1000 each so slightly cheaper.  I'm in no way going to try to argue about the heads because I'm here seeking your advice. I kept looking at the afr heads because I thought it'll be easier to use them with included stroker kit pistons  but if I end up using different custom pistols trickflow it is :)

I'd like the custom piston idea but I can't get too crazy with prices because I have my whole 69 coupe to finish but if I can get the whole rotating assembly at a decent price is be happy 

I don't plan on revving past 6k and I'm sure 550 hp will be enough for now. I already bought the manifold and I still have the 302 air gap manifold the I previously bought that I  need to sell :( I don't want to have two air gap manifold sitting in my garage so I'll use the air gap for now. The other reason I chose the airgap is because I have a stock hood  with no scoop and I saw the airgap is a close right fit. This car will be 90% street driven so the rpms will be low most of the time.

That also leaves me wondering about the 3k+ torque converter I have. I am wondering if I should get a lower stall for my 4r70w trans..... I want high rpms all the time while I'm driving but that wouldn't be smart because I don't want to drain my gas tank before I get to work 8 miles away ha ha ha

As for the carb, a 850 quick fuel vac secondaries would be fine then with my 4r70w?

I'd like to stick to a custom cam for the best power and city driveable maners. Yes it's more expensive but I'm sure it's worth it.

[barnett468 418]

summit racing wants $2000.00 for 1 afr head and $1000.00 for 1 trick flow head, so as i asked, where are you getting your prices from?

the custom pistons are only around $150.00 more than the ubiquitous probe pistons.

a 302 air gap is not nearly the same as a 351 air gap . you need a 351 air gap.

yes the eagle kits will take big hp just like the other brands will.

if you only rev 6000 and are around 600 lift with the right spring pressure, you can run the lower cost morel lifters and save almost $300.00.

use the probe pistons if you are on a budget . they are fine but require slightly looser tolerances.

i would only bore it .020 over if it will clean up there but then you are back to custom pistons.

if you have 500 hp and don't want it to rev high on the freeway i would use around 3.73 gears but it depends slightly on your tire size.

you really need to get the part number and mfg of the converter then call the mfg and ask what rpm the flash stall will be with your engine.

im pretty sure you will need a drop down air cleaner also which means you need to run a carb that has no choke on it.

i would also zero deck the block and run cometic .035" thick head gaskets and drill a 1/8th inch hole in both front oil galley plugs when they are out and use 1/2 groove main bearings . you also need a good oil pump drive.

 

REAR MAIN SEAL

I would have the block machined for a one piece seal then get the right crank.

 

tell chris straub that barnett from this mustang forum suggested you call him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

1 hour ago, barnett468 said:

summit racing wants $2000.00 for 1 afr head and $1000.00 for 1 trick flow head, so as i asked, where are you getting your prices from?

the custom pistons are only around $150.00 more than the ubiquitous probe pistons.

a 302 air gap is not nearly the same as a 351 air gap . you need a 351 air gap.

yes the eagle kits will take big hp just like the other brands will.

if you only rev 6000 and are around 600 lift with the right spring pressure, you can run the lower cost morel lifters and save almost $300.00.

use the probe pistons if you are on a budget . they are fine but require slightly looser tolerances.

i would only bore it .020 over if it will clean up there but then you are back to custom pistons.

if you have 500 hp and don't want it to rev high on the freeway i would use around 3.73 gears but it depends slightly on your tire size.

you really need to get the part number and mfg of the converter then call the mfg and ask what rpm the flash stall will be with your engine.

im pretty sure you will need a drop down air cleaner also which means you need to run a carb that has no choke on it.

i would also zero deck the block and run cometic .035" thick head gaskets and drill a 1/8th inch hole in both front oil galley plugs when they are out and use 1/2 groove main bearings . you also need a good oil pump drive.

 

REAR MAIN SEAL

I would have the block machined for a one piece seal then get the right crank.

 

tell chris straub that barnett from this mustang forum suggested you call him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The AFR 205 heads for $2045 on summit is for the pair. At the end of the description title the trickflow say each and the afr heads say pair. Trust me on that. 

The $150 ish more for the custom pistons is fine with me. Would hour friend Randy know what kind of pistons I need if I told him the cam lift and heads I have? I wouldn't know how to order the right piston .

I understand the 302 and 351w manifolds are different,  I ment to say I have both right now because I was first going to use a 302 from a 89 mustang then I changed my mind and decided i want the 351w/408w

The $300 savings sounds nice if those lifters will work for me. Could you show me what lifters your talking about?

My plan is to have a low rear ratio for Hwy driving and something high that's built tought that would be good to haul some butt and just swap them as needed. I just need to figure out what stall on the converter would be good for lower Hwy rpms so I don't overheat my trans fluid.

I'd love to find a good with a intake scoop for more clearance but that's not been easy.

I've heard of the rear 1 piece main seal upgrade. I need to call CHP,  Jim Grubbs Motorsports to see if they can help me with machining my block.

[barnett468 418]

you can have yo in hb off the 405 freeway do your entire block as well . tell him dude and bob mckrays friend mike sent you if you call.

summit needs to fix that . i would get the afr's then but some people will swear that the trick flows are way better which they are not but they certainly aren't any worse and the difference between the two will not be big.

the standard valve pockets they use at race tech will be deep enough but give them a lift spec of maybe 630 to be safe . they have the draft of the afr 205 head so they can mirror it if you want.

 

heres the base morel . they will work for your app

http://johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=5323

 

heres the same lifter with limited travel . i would consider these over the ones above.

http://johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=5327

 

heres the big dollar uber fancy racing lifter

 

http://johncalliesinc.com/product.php?ProductNo=5879

 

heres the cheapest place to buy them

https://www.coloradospeed.com/roller-lifters-c-2902_2557_2592/morel-hydraulic-roller-lifters-ls-sbc-842d-stk-rep-pol-hyd-roll-8793-505743-p-32269.html

 

theres is no replacement. for displacement

build a 418

build a 418

build a 418

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

Ha ha ha 418 huh...... I never really thought about it. 

Why is a 408w more common?

I like the fact the shopping list is already made on that link you provided too.

I don't see a reason not to do the 418w!

[lalojamesliz 56]

Who is yo in hb off the 405? 

Ha ha ha 

[barnett468 418]

12 minutes ago, lalojamesliz said:

Who is yo in hb off the 405? 

Ha ha ha 

 

he does a lot of high perf engines for local racers but i'm sure that grubbs is fine also . just never had him do anything.

Address: 16131 Gothard St d, Huntington Beach, CA 92647

Phone: (714) 842-3144

 

not sure why a 408 is more common but that in no way means that it is better . a 418 is fine with the tall deck 351 and it costs exactly the same to build . you can even go to 428 but i wouldn't.

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

You be been a lot of help so fae  barnett468. Thank you so much

Ed.

[barnett468 418]

no prob . a few other people here know engines well also but they may be gone for the weekend or something.

[lalojamesliz 56]

On that 418w, they used a 9.5 block and my C9 block is 9.48 and I wanted to run the wonderful 91 octane Cali supplies me with ill need different pistons huh. Any chance you can help me with that barnett?

[barnett468 418]

44 minutes ago, lalojamesliz said:

On that 418w, they used a 9.5 block and my C9 block is 9.48 and I wanted to run the wonderful 91 octane Cali supplies me with ill need different pistons huh. Any chance you can help me with that barnett?

the height difference doesn't matter when you are using custom pistons . you can also probably find production ones that will fit

the piston height and head gasket and mirroring of the head info i gave you are all to reduce the potential for detonation . i would run around 11.0 max with what you want to do and the cam grinders can grind the cam in a way that will also reduce detonation if your compression is a little high . 10.7 gives you a little more margin but chris straub will have some suggestions as well if he is going to make the cam.

 

ENGINE COOLING

I am a cooling freak so I would run a high flow pump like a flowkooler . a 185 moroso high flow t stat . wide 4 row high efficiency cross flow rad or a big aluminum rad and taurus, lincoln or contour fans with a dcc fan controller and an 80 or 90 amp alternator, and it will never run over 195 in the summer in so cal.

 

DISTRIBUTOR GEAR

I try to use the crane melonized gear whenever i can and it works with all cams . i assure you it is one of the best available, but last i knew, chris straub uses a bronze one on the roller cams and i think it is the same one comp cams and mallory uses.

 

 

 

[lalojamesliz 56]

I was looking at the 418w crank on the parts list for that build and I saw this

The part that worries me is where it says it won't work with OE style AODE torque converters. Isn't the 4r70w I bought a aode?

[barnett468 418]

Ok, here is your answer . An aod or aode converter WILL work with that crank . These converters are slightly different than the factory converter and the nose of these converters can bottom out inside the crank converter nose alignment hole when high loads are applied . If this happens, it pushes the crank forward which then puts a lot of force on the thrust surface of the main bearing which in turn can damage the bearing . Since this bearing does not have a dedicated oil hole to that surface, it can run dry which accelerates the wear/damage.

The way to prevent this problem is by simply checking the nose end clearance with the crank and the clearance from the end of the converter to the trans pump, however, the converter trans clearance is rarely too small, and it is often too large . If it is more than around .180", you can install a thin machine washer under each mounting pad.

If you have at least .125" clearance in both directions, you should not have a problem unless you have an extremely crappy converter . If the converter nose to crank clearance is still to little after the converter to trans clearance is properly set, you can simply machine some material off of the converter nose until you have around .125" clearance.

They also make converters with "anti balooning" plates, however, these are typically only used in very high hp cars . This being said, they can also be used in typical street cars but they are expensive . Call a converter mfg like hughes or coan etc for info.

You also need to check the od of the converter nose to the id of the crank clearance.