The cost of riding low...

[miketyler 15]

I am still looking at my options. That pic I attached in the first post was taken on the cars first drive with a full 4" drop all the way around. I have since raised the car back up 1" replacing the 2" blocks in the rear for 1" blocks and adding the plastic 1" spring spacers in front. The car is perfectly parallel to the ground and rockers are level. It's more drive-able now and the ride isn't that bad but if I were to do it again I wouldn't de-arch the rear leafs and would consider drop spindles as well as lowering springs for the front and rear.

Edited December 2, 2014 by miketyler

[MikeStang 247]

Mike T. I like the stance you have now and that's about where I want mine to be and i think I'm there now, but I still need to cut a tiny bit off the front to give it SOME rake.

I may just try those KONI's all the way around and modify my shock mount plates to help correct the angle of the shock with the car that low.

Part of the reason I went to a 40 series tire was to get some more sidewall which helped a BUNCH over the 30 series I was running haha.

[DarkBuddha 107]

If the rear is giving you the most problems, focus your attention there. Is it particularly stiff? The old conventional wisdom was to use a stiff damper with a soft spring and a soft damper with a stiff spring. Stiff springs with stiff dampers will ALWAYS suck, just as soft springs with soft dampers always sucks. So if the rear feels a bit harsh and hard, maybe try something cheap like a set of relatively soft Monroe Matic-plus ($12/each) or KYB Excel G shocks ($20/each). I ran Monroe Matic-plus shocks on my '70 with those clamped coils and I can recommend them for ride quality.

[970fizz 19]

Mikestang- you say you did reverse eye leaf in the back and the Shelby drop up front with a 1/2 of a coil cut out of the 620? Was the 620 already a 1" drop coil spring?

 

That is what I ordered from mustang plus last week (620 1" drop front coil and 5 leaf reverse eye for the back) my plan is to cut 1/2 coil and do the Shelby drop.

But I want the back to sit 1/2 inch higher then the front.

 

Do you have any pics?

[MikeStang 247]

I can check my receipts for the front coils but if I recall it was a 620 1" drop spring, and like I said 4 to 4-1/2" max cut off the springs.

Yes I have a few pics.

I have some pics Ill post

[MikeStang 247]

here ya go

its sunk down just a bit more since these pics but not a lot.

Tires in rear are 275/40/18 ..Front is 255/40/18 .

[MikeStang 247]

I recently noticed that my pass side rear is actually a little higher than the driver side for some reason, and I have a battery in the trunk on that side WTH... I have loosened all the shackles and driven the car to let it settle down but seems this sucker will need some beating to come down....

Oh when you get down on it the rub marks on the tire show that its going up into the wheel area almost the entire heith of the 40 series tire LOL, so it squats pretty good LOL.

Im still having a major problem with the ass end going to the right below 60 mph when you stand on it :(

[buening 63]

Keep in mind when you lower the front you also mess with the suspension geometry quite a bit. Stepping up to the Bilsteins shocks will help some, but you won't get that new car ride since you are stuck with the messed up suspension geometry. Going to a coilover on LCA setup like SoT or TCP is an option, as it improves suspension geometry. SoT uses much better shocks compared to TCP.

 

My front suspension isn't bad (mostly stock form), its the rear that drives me nuts. I have 4 leafs with Bilsteins and rubber bushings and feel every crack in the road from the rear and seems there is little cushion/give when hitting potholes or the full-width roadway patches that have settled.

[SA69mach 39]

Mike T. I like the stance you have now and that's about where I want mine to be and i think I'm there now, but I still need to cut a tiny bit off the front to give it SOME rake.

I may just try those KONI's all the way around and modify my shock mount plates to help correct the angle of the shock with the car that low.

Part of the reason I went to a 40 series tire was to get some more sidewall which helped a BUNCH over the 30 series I was running haha.

 

With acknowledgement to Dark Buddha's comments on soft/hard spring/shock combinations,

I tend to agree if you want to soften things up, but not with KYB's, or Konis,(for different reasons)

The KYB's are softer than Koni or Bilstein, but largely due to the small piston and inner tube. Granted a stiff valving will make them harder, but they suffer from the same problem that all 'economy brand' shocks do, which is rapid over heating and fading, precisely due to the small volumes and therefore more rapid work inside the shock body.

You will have slightly softer spring damping in compression, and rebound, but it is your springs and wheel combination that is causing a harsh ride.

 

Koni and Bilstein (top end units) are both fitted with large bore pistons and shafts, and will be substantially 'better' at everything a KYB can provide.

I have had both, and have settled on Bilstein all round on all my Mustangs. Koni are stiff on compression, and light on rebound, by design. Gives a Euro quality "flat" cornering feel.

Bilstein are softer on compression, and hard on rebound. I like the feel of the car leaning slightly into the corner and then holding firm until out of the exit.

Depends on what you like. I feel high compression shocks never telegraph the point of letting go. Bilsteins just feel perfect for my preference. If I overcook the entry the lean gets excessive before the tires let go, gives me some warning. Also no bounce after compression, which is more disconcerting and unbalances the chassis.

 

Both Koni and Bilstein can be re-valved to suit your needs.

 

I still think a higher aspect rear tire will make your ride quality better. Might be the cheapest experiment too. Will raise your rear end slightly, but not much. You could go one aspect higher on both front and rear, for better effect.

You will need to carefully select your tires to avoid scrubbing issues - or go with smaller wheels and higher aspect tires to match your current overall sizing.

 

I feel your pain too. Compromises huh ?

[MikeStang 247]

SA I went from a 20" rim and tire combo that had 255/30/20s all the way around to the 275/40/18 on the back and 255/40/18 on the front and it helped the rid a ton but its still kinda hard lol.

I was driving it last night and when I would hit bumps it felt as tho the shock were compressing and bottoming out in the rear...I would feel the bump and the car would drop and then just stop.

I know Im not bottoming on the frame but wondering if shorter shocks are in order...I may go buy some cheap Monroe shocks this evening and pop them on to see what happens.

The car does handle very well tho.

Im also considering finding a used set of 265/45 or 265/50/18s to try out.

[SA69mach 39]

SA I went from a 20" rim and tire combo that had 255/30/20s all the way around to the 275/40/18 on the back and 255/40/18 on the front and it helped the rid a ton but its still kinda hard lol.

I was driving it last night and when I would hit bumps it felt as tho the shock were compressing and bottoming out in the rear...I would feel the bump and the car would drop and then just stop.

I know Im not bottoming on the frame but wondering if shorter shocks are in order...I may go buy some cheap Monroe shocks this evening and pop them on to see what happens.

The car does handle very well tho.

Im also considering finding a used set of 265/45 or 265/50/18s to try out.

 

Not a bad idea.

What brakes do you have? Anything that will restrict your wheel size choice?

 

There are some obvious advantages for track work with big wheels, short sidewalls and lowered stiffer suspension. But real world driving on potholes and normal road conditions make most of that impractical at times. Worst case is damage from striking obstacles, or metal fatigue/failure.

 

Hope you find the happy sizing to suit your comfort level. If you are not enjoying the ride now, might be worth the change.

[MikeStang 247]

My brakes are just upgraded to the CSRP Granada fronts and the big 2" or what ever the big cars had for drums in the rear so Im not restricted to wheel sizes.

Speaking of brakes let me just say that more of you guys should drive a car with the Granada brakes and big drums on it before you spend a fortune on Wilwood or the other high end brands. My car will stop on a dime and give ya 9 cents change, its really quite impressive IMHO... It sucks when Im driving my car and then jump into my 2012 Tundra and almost run stop signs because the damn new truck dont stop as well as my 45 year old car

[PaoloMach1 11]

Hi guys, these an interest topic!

I would ask you some imputs.

my car has the 390 with an aluminium intake, toploader and power steering, during the restoration I did the Shelby arm drop job and I have installed a set of new big block coil springs that I got from the previous owner.

I don't know any specs about these springs but the front end looks too high to me, so I've just bought a pair of 1" lowering spring, they are Scott Drake 600lb.

a friend of mine told me that the 600lb springs are too harsh for our rough road, so I'm really scared to install them, I really hate harsh suspension....

what do you think guys? any suggestion?

thank you

Edited December 9, 2014 by PaoloMach1

[1969_Mach1 333]

With a big block you will probably be okay. I would use them before buying anything else. The 620's are typically rated at 550 lbs/in and some say are too soft for a big block. Using a taller profile tire , 60 or 50 series will help soften the ride considerably. Also, try to avoid a stiff shock like the KYB Gas-A-Justs.

 

I have them on my Mach 1 with a 351W. Initially, I was skeptical but I installed them because I inherited the car and my brother had already purchased them. I have tall profile tires on OEM wheels and Gabriel Adjustable shocks which both help to soften the ride.

[PaoloMach1 11]

With a big block you will probably be okay. I would use them before buying anything else. The 620's are typically rated at 550 lbs/in and some say are too soft for a big block. Using a taller profile tire , 60 or 50 series will help soften the ride considerably. Also, try to avoid a stiff shock like the KYB Gas-A-Justs.

 

I have them on my Mach 1 with a 351W. Initially, I was skeptical but I installed them because I inherited the car and my brother had already purchased them. I have tall profile tires on OEM wheels and Gabriel Adjustable shocks which both help to soften the ride.

 

thank you for your reply, I inherited the KYB shocks too, as usual when I get somethings as a gift are the baddest thing on the market :crying:

[MikeStang 247]

LOL.

I still need to go get me some new shocks but just sold my house and put the car in storage but left plenty room to get it out for PLAY TIME

[SA69mach 39]

thank you for your reply, I inherited the KYB shocks too, as usual when I get somethings as a gift are the baddest thing on the market :crying:

 

Thy are good springs for your car and engine combination. The shocks, I don't know, neither will you until you do some driving and assess the feel at various speeds, and get used to the car.

 

The springs hold the weight and are designed to compress, but not to the point of 'binding' Cutting springs gets you closer to the point of bottoming out or binding the spring, and is of course directly related to the weight on the spring.

 

The shocks are designed to dampen the effects of compression, and then the rebound. To slow down the motion of the springs, and avoid bouncing.

 

With the Big Block you would be unwise to cut the springs. If you find the car is bottoming out, or wallowing on the springs, you need better shocks.

The KYB's may be OK, but the shock performance will deteriorate quickly with spirited driving, or challenging road conditions.

 

I styed with economy shocks for most of my driving life because I could not afford better, and I did not know how much better the "good" shocks really are.

 

Without sounding like a Bilstein salesman, I think they are best suited for the older Mustangs, and they are quality items. As good if not better than equivalent KONI, and a step down from QA fully adjustable shocks.

 

Rough dollar values;

KYB - 100 dollars for a set of four

Bilstein 100 dollars each, 400 dollars for set of four

QA fully adjustable - 400 dollars each, 1600 dollars a set.

 

Your money, your choice.

[PaoloMach1 11]

hehe I can't afford expensive shocks, maybe if the things will go better I would try adjustable air shocks on the rear, I remember last time the car was fully loaded the rear was very low.

now I'm working on the leaf springs, I've just flattened the lower leaves and now I feel them softer, but I still try what happens when the car is fully loaded.

also I've moved the 2nd and 3rd leaves forward so the wheel hop is now decreased but longer driver side leaf looks bent on the opposite side (only in the front of the leaf), will try to re arch....

[SA69mach 39]

Adjustable Air shocks are not a good idea for the Mustang. They have a long record of damaging the upper mounting points. They crack the metal all round the mounting point.

 

Do as you wish, but that is the most likely result. If your car is sagging when loaded the springs are the culprit, not the shocks.

[miketyler 15]

I drove the car this week during my time off and was again reminded of how unhappy I am with the ride quality. :(

 

I found the article below and was thinking about a pair of the bolt-in coil over conversion shocks like the ones mentioned there. A pair of coil over adjustable height units seem to be worth investigating. I plan to bring the car up another inch which should only help. Any recommendations on this type of upgrade?

 

http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/1306-front-coilover-suspension-guide/viewall.html

 

 

For the rear my flat springs need to go. I planned to buy a set of rear springs, mid or reverse eye, with 2" drop and then use drop blocks to get rockers level to the front. I don't thrash my car so drop blocks don't bother me. I see they have the same coil over solution for the rear but I don't like the idea of rasing up the car at the shock locations. Any thoughts there?

 

Edited December 23, 2014 by miketyler

[1969_Mach1 333]

I haven't used a coil over setup on these older Mustangs. But from your picture my initial thought regards the upper mount. I question applying all the suspension vertical loads to those upper little rubber shock type grommets. I would think they might squish like a pancake.

[miketyler 15]

I think maybe the top ring is the retainer for the spring and the flat plate is for the shock so each are independent. I will need to research to see what ride height range it offers but most assuredly is a better solution than I have now. For those in the know here, is dual adjustment a big plus for a car that's street driven?

Edited December 24, 2014 by miketyler

[SM69Mach 68]

Mike

 

I would have to agree that kit looks like it will put all the pressure on that single point with the 2 rubber looking grommets. Having installed the SoT kit recently, the ring will probably got under the spring perch where the stock spring goes and the top plate will bolt to it through the top of the shock tower. My guess that is to help distribute the load on the original spring perch, I too would be concerned about that single point design with those 2 bushings. Would seem like one hard hit could either bend that plate or push the shock through.

 

I did use SoT coil over set up for the front and it is awesome. I went with the street valving and absolutely love the way the car rides and handles now. I kept the mid eye springs and 2 in lowering blocks as I don't thrash on the car all that hard either. I did switch to the bilstein shocks in the rear to match the front. I raised mine up about an inch in the front as well and that helped tremendously on the ride and ground clearance. I would recommend calling Shaun and Street or Track and just talking to him. I did a few times before making the decision to move to the coil over set up. Awesome guy and can give you some different ideas and thing to consider.

 

Good luck.

[miketyler 15]

I really like the SoT coil over system but my front end is all new with less than 1000 miles on it. I'd like to get more use out of it and the shock/spring replacement products would let me retain all that. I am trying to improve ride quality and while that kit would be great I cant help but think it might be overkill for my needs. That's a good idea, I think I will call Shaun next week and discuss...maybe he has some suggestions on improving ride quality.

 

[DarkBuddha 107]

Btw, I was recently reminded that folks really liked the ride and handling combination of the Eibach progressive rate front springs. Might be something to consider while trying yo get a bit more out of your front suspension.