How far do I go?

[ksquared 13]

My project risks becoming a never ending one. I'm toying around with the idea of getting CNC'd Edelbrock heads for my 428. More power of course. Cam is a Herbert solid roller with 240 degrees and .640 lift. Herbert springs. Hooker headers, TRW forged pistons and a PI intake manifold with a 750 Holley. Other good parts support this setup. Question is will my stock rods support what this engine could be? They are stock Cobra Jet rods that have been shot peened. Factory rod bolts & nuts. Not the Super Cobra Jet ones. I'm thinking that the rods may end up being the weak link. I'd like to approach 500hp & doubt it can be done with stock CJ heads (or the PI manifold). Guess the question is how much can my rods handle?

[Cayenne06 10]

I just comleted a similar update to my 390 S-code. Got a lot of good information from here: http://www.network54.com/Index/10214

[jholmes217 65]

Adding ARP bolts to those rods should strengthen them up nicely. If your going to build an FE, I highly recommend you get Jay Brown and Barry Rabotnick's books. Here are links to those: http://fepower.net/GFEIC.html'>http://fepower.net/GFEIC.html

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Max-Performance-Ford-Engines-Performance/dp/1934709158/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352392558&sr=8-1&keywords=barry+rabotnick

 

I also recommend you join these forums:

http://fepower.net/

http://www.network54.com/Index/10214

http://www.428cobrajet.org/

 

Those books and web sites will be a huge help. For example, if your car uses a shaker hood scoop, your options for intake manifolds are limited. I'd recommend either a Blue Thunder or port matched Edelbrock Streetmaster. An RPM can be made to work, but things may need "tweaked" as the carb location is off for a shaker ( I think it sits back farther.) If yours is a Q code like mine, then you have many more options, including dual quads or tri-power. Jay's book was written after some intense dyno testing with just about every intake made for the FE, and he also did header/exhaust manifold tests. Barry's book talks well about strengthening an FE for high performance use.

[SM69Mach 68]

Jeff

What is your motor set up? Intake and all. I had a 390 that I just did some work on and need to upgade my intake and debating on Edlebrock RPM or Victor. Its a weekend warrior so I am not to concerned with losing a bit of low end tq with the Victor. I know the RPM is a good all around intake, but just trying to ask around differen opinons. Pretty clear on the FE boards what people are saying.

[jholmes217 65]

Jeff

What is your motor set up? Intake and all. I had a 390 that I just did some work on and need to upgade my intake and debating on Edlebrock RPM or Victor. Its a weekend warrior so I am not to concerned with losing a bit of low end tq with the Victor. I know the RPM is a good all around intake, but just trying to ask around differen opinons. Pretty clear on the FE boards what people are saying.

 

I'm still working on mine, but here's what I'm planning to do. I'm putting on a Blue Thunder 428 Cobra Jet intake manifold (the ports come port matched to the 428 Cobra Jet heads.) It had an Offenhauser 360 intake on it when I bought it, and that intake did terrible in Jay Brown's test. I have Hooker Super Comp headers to out on, and 427 adjustable rocker arms to put on also. I have a non-original 1966 428 (C6ME-A) block in my car that according to the rebuild tag is already bored .060. So, I'm reluctant to invest too much into that current short block. I'm plan to run it until until I find a better 428 block. I don't know the cam, compression, or if the original heads have been hogged out or modified for unleaded fuel since there isn't a date on the rebuild tag. I do know the original owner was a serious street racer, so I imagine it has some beef to it inside, but won't know until I tear it down more. (He wanted the q code non-shaker) so people would assume it was a 351 car unless the got close enough to see the small 428 badge on the scoop!) If I do a cam swap, I will probably go with a comp cams 268H or Extreme Energy 274H. I have a XE 274H in my 302 car and I like the idle and low end grunt and high end performance for a street car. I also have two Streetmasters though, and may go for the early 70's look build. I'd port match it if I went that route though. I have an original 735 CFM Cobra Jet carb I'm gonna try first. If I'm not happy with that, I'll try a 750 double pumper.

 

For your car, based on Jay Brown's book, for s single carb intake I'd recommend the Blue Thunder, Edelbrock Performer RPM or Streetmaster, or a Holley Street Dominator. If your car is a stick, you may be able to get away with a single plane like the Victor. In my experience though, I had a hard time getting rid of a bog off the start until the RPM got up over 2000 RPM. So, I prefer dual planes for street cars.

Edited November 8, 2012 by jholmes217

[ksquared 13]

Thanks guys for the tips & links. I have Barry's book & just got Jay's book. I thought about using a shaker until I found out how much it would cost! Actually a lot of $ for very little or no gain in power. My intake is a Police Interceptor. Carb is a Holley 3310. Trans is a 4spd. Per Jays book, it looks like the PI manifold is not so great. I'm inclined to stick with a dual plane manifold. My "problem" is that as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as too much power. :thumbup: My car is done & waiting for me to complete the engine. The longer I take, the more I ponder additional mods. I was going to stick with my iron CJ heads until I realized I could afford some CNC'd Edelbrocks. My goal is to make a really good handling car, not necessarily a drag race monster. Road racing is fun (ha - all racing is fun). Anyway, I figure the Edelbrocks are good for an additional 50hp. Just don't want to break the bottom end while making power on the top end.:thumbdown:

[jholmes217 65]

Thanks guys for the tips & links. I have Barry's book & just got Jay's book. I thought about using a shaker until I found out how much it would cost! Actually a lot of $ for very little or no gain in power. My intake is a Police Interceptor. Carb is a Holley 3310. Trans is a 4spd. Per Jays book, it looks like the PI manifold is not so great. I'm inclined to stick with a dual plane manifold. My "problem" is that as far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as too much power. :thumbup: My car is done & waiting for me to complete the engine. The longer I take, the more I ponder additional mods. I was going to stick with my iron CJ heads until I realized I could afford some CNC'd Edelbrocks. My goal is to make a really good handling car, not necessarily a drag race monster. Road racing is fun (ha - all racing is fun). Anyway, I figure the Edelbrocks are good for an additional 50hp. Just don't want to break the bottom end while making power on the top end.:thumbdown:

 

If your wanting road racing, I'd go with mods to lighten the front end. Things like aluminum radiator, aluminum intake, aluminum water pump, aluminum heads, and headers, and your FE is now about the same or lighter than a stock small block. Just my opinion, but I've never road raced.

[SM69Mach 68]

K- sounds like a good build. Its interesting working with motors that are not the norm to build.

 

Jeff thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the RPM, but just looking around as I probably wont do anything until spring time. The car is an auto and a 2800 stall, with 750 holley Vac Sec. Car runs strong and doesnt spend much time below 2000 anyway..haha.

[jholmes217 65]

K- sounds like a good build. Its interesting working with motors that are not the norm to build.

 

Jeff thanks for the info. I am leaning towards the RPM, but just looking around as I probably wont do anything until spring time. The car is an auto and a 2800 stall, with 750 holley Vac Sec. Car runs strong and doesnt spend much time below 2000 anyway..haha.

 

My past experience with a single plane on the street was a Edelbrock Torquer 289 on a 302 on a 4 speed car with a Holley 600 double pumper. That was back in the 1980's, and was my first build. I had to wait until around 2000 rpm to floor it, otherwise I'd have a bog. It probably wasn't the best matched combo either though. I was only an E4 in the Army at the time, and had a very small budget, and had to go the cheap route and find used parts in the days before Craigslist and Ebay. That car probably would have run much better with a dual plane manifold. If you go with a single plane, I'd experiment with vacuum secondary and double pumper carbs to see what worked best. With a single plane, you probably will have a weaker vacuum signal at low rpm, so your vacuum secondaries may not kick in when you would like. Spring changes in the diaphragm may help that also though. What intake manifold do you have now, and what cam and rear end? I guess lay out your build and I could make a better intake recommendation.

Edited November 9, 2012 by jholmes217

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

what rpm do you plan to spin the motor and what pistons are you running?

[TX427Cobra 19]

Guess the question is how much can my rods handle?

 

You have come this far, if you are in doubt about the rods then I'd say spring for new ones. I have the LeMans rotating assemble in my 427 side oiler that made 505 HP at the flywheel and it has spun effortlessly to 6500 rpms for 9k miles with nary a bobble. A lot of it has to do with who balances your rotating assembly and how much experience they have inspecting, sizing and balancing your rods. I'd never do it myself...its an art form. Some people say the old Ford junk is junk. I decided I'd rather risk my $ on 40 year-old American made Ford junk that kicked ass for 24 hours in the French countryside than current day Chinese junk that might kick ass between red lights.

 

YMMV.

Edited November 9, 2012 by TX427Cobra

[LindenBruce 27]

K- sounds like a good build. Its interesting working with motors that are not the norm to build.

 

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that remark!!!! FE's are a different breed that's for sure!

 

 

And TX 427COBRA, I totally agree with your statement on the rods. That's why I used my factory rods, profile and shot peened the beams, re-sized and new ARP bolts. Better than new IMO. B

Edited November 9, 2012 by LindenBruce

[ksquared 13]

Well I just ordered some ARP bolts. My C7AE-B rods are already shot peened. I spoke with ARP tech support today. Learned that it is next to impossible to accurately measure factory rod bolt length because the nut end is not machined. It has high & low areas relative to the head end so every time one measures it, a different reading will be found. ARP & other aftermarket quality bolts are machined flat so an accurate repeatable reading can be obtained. ARP says to chuck the bolts if they are stretched more than .001". With no way to measure factory bolts & no spec anyway, it looks like it is new bolt time. Will this project ever be completed?:001_rolleyes: