1970 Mach 1 H Code Build

[Klutch 17]

I decided to work on that taillight panel again. I'm in the process of drilling out the plug welds on the left side. I will then bring it down and line it up as the right side is. This should ensure everything lines up better. Also, I won't be likely to look at it later in the project and say, "I should have lowered that taillight panel".

[Klutch 17]

why do you feel you can't patch the cancerous section of the filler panel?

 

Hey, I just saw this reply, Buckeye. You know, I'm just not sure. I tried to make a patch. I can't quite get the 90 degree bend sharp enough. So, when I test fit it, the bend looks more rounded than it should. Also, I wasn't sure if I could get the butt weld to be invisible.

 

I suppose I should give it my best shot and see how it comes out. If it sucks, I can always buy another filler panel.

 

I admit, I think a lot of my issues are with self-confidence of late. The crooked taillight panel has me really questioning my abilities. But I really appreciate your help here. I need to just get back on this horse and ride!

[Klutch 17]

I removed the misaligned taillight panel. Today I test fitted the new taillight panel. I'm still having an issue as it does indeed appear the left quarter was installed a bit too low.

 

I'm pretty sure I can make it work. But I'm confused about how the bottom of the taillight panel attaches to the rear crossmember. There doesn't appear to be enough contact area for plug welds. Last time, the taillight panel was higher up which increased the contact area.

 

So, how does the bottom of the taillight panel attach to the rear crossmember? Should I just make small plug welds?

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I can't quite get the 90 degree bend sharp enough. So, when I test fit it, the bend looks more rounded than it should.

 

how are you forming your bends?

[Klutch 17]

how are you forming your bends?

 

I put the sheet metal in a vice then put a thick piece of steel over it and hammered down the end to a 90 degree bend. I'm open to suggestions.

 

Did you see my question about the taillight panel? Is it supposed to be plug welded on the bottom? My original panel was such a mess, I'm not sure I can follow what was done before. I have a body assembly manual, but it doesn't appear to include welds.

[Mike65 475]

I removed the misaligned taillight panel. Today I test fitted the new taillight panel. I'm still having an issue as it does indeed appear the left quarter was installed a bit too low.

 

I'm pretty sure I can make it work. But I'm confused about how the bottom of the taillight panel attaches to the rear crossmember. There doesn't appear to be enough contact area for plug welds. Last time, the taillight panel was higher up which increased the contact area.

 

So, how does the bottom of the taillight panel attach to the rear crossmember? Should I just make small plug welds?

 

That is how I did mine, I just plug welded it.

[Klutch 17]

 

That is how I did mine, I just plug welded it.

 

Thanks, Mike.

 

Is the bottom edge of the taillight panel supposed to line up with the bottom edge of the rear crossmember? If so, there's something wonky with my car. If I line up the taillight panel just as yours is, the bottom edge of the rear crossmember is more than 1/2" above the bottom edge of the taillight panel.

 

Maybe I've got the crossmember too high? It's not yet welded in. Right now the top of the crossmember is clamped in up against the bottom of the trunk pans.

 

I'll try to get some pictures up.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I put the sheet metal in a vice then put a thick piece of steel over it and hammered down the end to a 90 degree bend. I'm open to suggestions.

 

that's what i have done in most cases. i've never had an issue with the edge being too round when doing that. without watching what you are doing it's hard too say what could be happening. maybe your vise is slightly round on that edge, maybe you aren't hammering it flat on that edge. i'm not sure.

 

Is it supposed to be plug welded on the bottom? My original panel was such a mess, I'm not sure I can follow what was done before. I have a body assembly manual, but it doesn't appear to include welds.

 

the tail light panel was spot welded to the flange of the lower crossmember. i think there was about a 1/2" or so flange on that crossmember.

[Klutch 17]

that's what i have done in most cases. i've never had an issue with the edge being too round when doing that. without watching what you are doing it's hard too say what could be happening. maybe your vise is slightly round on that edge, maybe you aren't hammering it flat on that edge. i'm not sure.

 

 

 

the tail light panel was spot welded to the flange of the lower crossmember. i think there was about a 1/2" or so flange on that crossmember.

 

Thanks, Buckeye.

 

I was afraid you were going to laugh at my bending method. :smile: I'll keep trying until I get something sharper.

 

As for the taillight panel, I'm having a very hard time linine up the bottom of the panel with the bottom of the crossmember. The crossmember appears to be 1/2" too high which doesn't leave anything to weld to. (??)

 

I just tried to get some pictures, but in the pics, you can't really see the area that doesn't line up.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

Thanks, Buckeye.

As for the taillight panel, I'm having a very hard time linine up the bottom of the panel with the bottom of the crossmember. The crossmember appears to be 1/2" too high which doesn't leave anything to weld to. (??)

.

 

didn't you weld it too that flange just a few weeks ago?

 

are the side welds of the crossmember (to the trunk drop) off welded?

 

did you replace the crossmember?

 

have you fit the trunk lid, quarter extensions and valance?

[Klutch 17]

didn't you weld it too that flange just a few weeks ago?

 

are the side welds of the crossmember (to the trunk drop) off welded?

 

did you replace the crossmember?

 

have you fit the trunk lid, quarter extensions and valance?

 

This is the second time I'm installing the taillight panel. The first panel was too high on the driver side. This time I'm trying to get everything lined up before I weld anything.

 

I'm replacing the crossmember, but it's not yet welded anywhere. I'm just claming it in place with vice-grips.

 

Last night I bolted on a quarter extension and it fit very well with the taillight panel clamped in place. I haven't yet test-fitted the trunk lid. I did this last time and it appeared to fit very well.

 

I had the same issue with the first taillight panel not lining up with the crossmember. I ended up bending the bottom of the taillight panel up to align with the crossmember. I didn't think that was a wise move. But now, it appears I'm going to have to do this again.

 

I clamped in the original crossmember and the bottom of it also sits above the bottom of the tailllight panel. Thus, I'm pretty certain the issue is with the replacement taillight panel. The bottom is too low, especially in thecenter. On the ends, it lines up OK. But then it arcs downward toward the center. (I will also try clamping in the original taillight panel. But it's in such rough shape, I'm not sure how helpful that would be.) So, I guess I'll have to again bend up the bottom of the taillight panel.

 

I bought both taillight tpanels from Mustangs Unlimited. I've had good fitment with other parts they sold me. But the taillight panels are apparently not right at the bottom. I'm not sure who makes their taillight panels. There's no brand name. (Which might be a bad sign?).

 

Last night I also attempted to test fit the rear valance. But I didn't really get very far with that. I will try to get this done today.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Klutch

[Klutch 17]

Well, this just keeps changing...

 

Being a woodworker, I have some long straight edges. When put a straight edge against the bottom of the taillight panel, it lines up; it's straight.

 

Putting a straight edge against the bottom of the rear crossmember reveals a definite arc. Thus, it's not the taillight panel that's arcing down toward the center. It's the crossmember that's arcing up toward the center. (Everything is relative, right?)

 

So, I think I'll bolt in the fuel tank, tack the crossmember in place, then gently bend it down in the center. I'm thinking this will solve the taillight alignment problem. (But perhaps I've been over-thinking this whole issue.)

 

Anyway, thanks again for your input and assistance everyone. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to help me.

 

I likely appear to be a meatball surgeon here. But this is the way I learned woodworking. I did a lot of reading and talked with many people online. Then I just did it. Sure, there were some screw-ups. But I eventually got pretty good at it. Honest. :innocent:

[Mike65 475]

Klutch,

When I replaced the l/s trunk floor & the gas tank rear support/crossmember that the bottom of the tail light panel welds to before I did any welding I bolted in the gas tank to make sure it was all square so I had no issues later when I tried to install the gas tank.

[Klutch 17]

Now I'm getting somewhere...

 

I was trying to line up the taillight panel again and, again, the left side of the crossmember was just too high. I measured at the frame rails just in front of the leaf springs and made sure they were the same distance above the garage floor. Then I measured at the rear of the frame rails.

 

The left frame rail is a full 5/8" higher than the right. Sheesh, it's becoming more and more apparent that my car really tooka beating on the left side.

 

I guess whomever replaced the left quarter panel didn't bother straightening the frame rail. I'm not sure what kind of problems that's going to cause. But I talked to a good friend of mine who recommended a very good alignment shop not far from me. My friend had his '66 fastback project there several months ago where they really had to tweak the front and rear frame rails to get it aligned. Apparently, they can handle pretty much anything.

 

I'll give the alignment shop a call to see when they can get me in. The bummer is in addition to paying to have the frame rail straightened, I'm going to have to pay to haul my Mustang to the shop and back. At least it still has the front and rear suspension in place and can easily roll on and off a flatbed.

 

Stay tuned. It's always something!

[Ash 145]

It may not be good news but at least it is news and you know which direction to take.

 

I had a chassis straightened a while back on a car of mine. It went from about 6-7 inches out to being within a 1mm. I was pretty amazed at how it was done. Wasn't cheap though, cost me a $1000. And that was a cash, no paperwork price.

[Klutch 17]

When I first confirmed the frame rail was bent, I expected it to be $1,000 to fix it. My buddy says it shouldn't be that much. I guess well see. But I will offer to pay in cash. Thanks for the suggestion, Ash.

 

Of course, I'll have the shop check the front end as well. No telling what they'll find up there.

[Klutch 17]

Here's a pic of the taillight panel when I was trying to line it up. It simply wasn't possible with a bent frame rail. Althought it looks OK on the top, it's 5/8" too high on the bottom which means there's nothing to weld to down there.

 

 

I just shot some primer on the car so I can have it hauled to the frame shop. I used SPI red epoxy. Below are some pics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2012 by Klutch

[latoracing 256]

Looks nice all primed up. Once the frame is straight, you will be in good shape. Let us know what the "doctor" has to say.

[Klutch 17]

In case anyone is interested in the frame rail issue...

 

The trip to the frame shop was a strange experience. I dealt with the owner, who is a very nice guy and has been in the business for over thirty years. But he seems a bit burned out and distracted.

 

When I tried to talk to the owner about my frame rail, he kept pointing out issues with the sheet metal. Yeah, I know I have some dents. But his shop doesn't do sheet metal work. So, maybe he was just trying to be helpful. (??)

 

When I got him to focus on the frame rail, he said it was indeed too high, but he couldn't touch it or it would buckle the trunk pan and the quarter panel. He said it would be best to cut it with a plasma cutter. Then he pointed out he didn't have one. "So if I separate the trunk pan from the quarter panel, then you can fix it?", I said, trying to get a clear picture of what he was telling me. He said if I cut away the sheet metal, I could fix it myself. At this I was somewhat baffled. He said to put the car on jack stands positioned in front of the leaf springs and the frame rail woul likely come down on it's own.

 

Not knowing what else to do, I did I as the frame shop owner instructed. By golly, he was right. The frame rail came down almost to where it should be. I put a pry bar betwee the frame rail and the leaf spring and pushed it down the rest of the way.

 

After that, I was able to install the taillight panel, again. I think it looks pretty good and everything appears to line up just fine.

 

The frame shop owner also pointed out an issue with my shock towers. He said he could bend them back in place, but I'd have to have a Monte Carlo bar installed to keep the fender aprons from twisting. I'll try to get some pics up to illustrate what he's talking about there. It's always something!

[Ash 145]

So you unstitched the frame rail before lifting and sitting on the stand? How did it all go once together and sitting back on the ground?

 

Good to hear you can now move on and progress further. Sounds like apart from a tow and time, it hasn't cost a whole lot to repair.

[Klutch 17]

So you unstitched the frame rail before lifting and sitting on the stand? How did it all go once together and sitting back on the ground?

 

Good to hear you can now move on and progress further. Sounds like apart from a tow and time, it hasn't cost a whole lot to repair.

 

As I recall, I put it up on jack stands, then cut the trunk pan from the quarter panel. I measured as soon as the two pieces were separated and the frame rail had already come down a lot. Then I just put the pry bar between the leaf spring and the frame rail and bent it down the rest of the way.

 

I was pretty surprised the frame rail was that flexible. I mean, I know Mustangs are the "Flexible Flyers" of classic cars, but I thought the frame rails would be pretty rigid. I guess not. Apparently, it's the sheet metal around them that mostly holds them in place.

 

The frame shop charged me $40.00 to put my Mustang up on their rack and measure everything. They hung these things that looked like giant slide rules all over it. Other than the left rear rail, everything checked out underneath the car. Of course, it was $100 to haul the car to the frame shop and back home.

 

If you look at the metal plates attached to the shock towers, inside the engine bay, the fronts are starting to pull away. That's the problem they said they could fix if I have a Monte Carlo bar installed. Again, I'll try to post a picture, if anyone is interested.

[Ash 145]

It'll be interesting to see just how much your shock towers and aprons have moved towards each other when you go to install the Monte Carlo bar. From memory mine had a little but was relatively good. I've heard of some being inches out which is scary to know how much they can fatigue do need that support.

[Klutch 17]

It'll be interesting to see just how much your shock towers and aprons have moved towards each other when you go to install the Monte Carlo bar. From memory mine had a little but was relatively good. I've heard of some being inches out which is scary to know how much they can fatigue do need that support.

 

Indeed, I've heard some shock towers had moved so much a Monte Carlo bar couldn't even be installed. My Mach 1 has a lot of miles on it. So, it's certainly possible the shock towers are way out of whack.

 

Since my Mustang is a shaker car, I'm not sure what, if any, Monte Carlo bar would work. Has anyone installed a Monte Carlo bar with a shaker? Will any of the type with a bend work?

[Ash 145]

Here's some pics of mine

 

 

[Klutch 17]

Well, there you go. Thanks, Ash. It appears you required the curved bar to clear your aftermarket distributor. Since I'm going to run the factory distributor, I'm wondering if I can use the straight bar.