Toploader clutch adjustment help!!

[prayers1 153]

I can't seem to find that sweet spot for my clutch. At first I adjusted it with a little tension on the adjusting rod at the clutch fork.

I felt lost trying to feel when the clutch would grab, so I tighten it up with just a little play and the pedal is too high. I feel if I take the dust cover off the bellhousing I can get more slack to get the pedal to grab closer to the floor, but what's the use of a dust cover.

 

FYI- New flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and T/O bearing. The pressure plate is a multi finger instead of 3 finger. The multi finger type gives more assist to the pedal. That's what I was told.

 

How does one properly adjust the clutch?

Does a shorter adjusting rod mean less clutch and

a longer adjusting rod means more????

 

I would like the clutch to engage a few inches from the floor.

Now the clutch is grabbing near the height of the brake pedal.

 

I'm using NOS springs for the lower and upper Z-bar. It feels too loose or sloppy. I feel it would be best if I can get a longer spring attach one end to the clutch fork and the other to the A Arm. This way I can take up any slack on the clutch fork and get a better rod adjustment.

 

Which is what - Higher pedal means clutch is starting to fail and lower pedal means alot of clutch available. Or vice versa.

 

I really don't know which way to go or what to do!

[LoneWolf2U 136]

If you shorten the lower adjusting rod, it takes more pedal travel to operate the throwout bearing.

This will lower the grab point location of the pedal as you lift your foot.

prob not the best discription...:closedeyes:

[prayers1 153]

I understand and I want less travel, so the shorter the rod the faster the contact.

My pedal feels so easy to operate and I'm not comparing it to a hydraulic system. I recall when I had 67/69 Camaros w/ Muncies. It was more of a stiffer pedal. You could actually feel the whole travel through your foot. By that feeling, I could judge on how to adjust the clutch. It was constant pressure through the entire travel.

On my 69 Mustang, it's feather touch during the whole travel. There is one problem, that's when you push the clutch all the way down and half way back-up and vice versa, it feels like it's a 2 stage movement. More like the pressure got over a fulcrum and came back down. After it goes over that hump feeling it wants to spring back up to it's final resting point, up or down position.

 

I'm thinking it maybe the shaft that holds the clutch/brake pedal, might be worn out and when the pedal goes through its travel it hits that same spot each time. I haven't confirmed this yet. But one thing for sure, the pedal does spring back upwards pretty fast, no matter how the clutch is adjusted. I'm thinking it maybe the clutch muti-diafram or the assist spring in the pedal the one attached to the inside of the car, not one with the spring going to the Z-Bar.

 

When trying to get the pedal to grab about an 1" or 2 from the floor. I need to shorten the adjusting rods length???????

How much slack or play do you measure at the clutch fork and adjusting rod????

How about the ideal of attaching a large spring to the clutch fork and pulling towards the front, that would take out any slack on the t/o bearing. This way I can get a better ideal of the ture slack on the adjusting rod. I think the OEM spring on the lower Z-Bar to clutch for is too soft and gives a false feeling and the clutch fork dust cover is rather tight on the fork itself hiding any natural slack.

 

 

FYI: New items-clutch system, Z-bar, clutch rod, springs, adjusting rod and pedal to z-bar rod.

 

I know I hit you with a lot of what if's. I'm trying to fully understand this cluch and get it right.

Thank you! and I appreciate for your time, John.

Edited November 25, 2011 by prayers1
More info

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Yes, Shorten the lower rod.

If you have no freeplay in your pedal travel you risk over travel of the pressure plate.

 

Start with 1-2 inches of freeplay in the clutch pedal travel before the throwout bearing contacts the fingers.

To do this you need to pull the fork all the way towards the front of the car with the pedal up and set the lower rod lenght long enough to keep the pointed end in the hole.

Now when you are pressing the pedal down it should travel 1-2 in then you should feel it contact the fingers(slight resistence)

Next will be a test of clutch engagement from floor upwards.

Engagement too soon make the lower rod longer, too far away from floor, make the rod shorter.

[prayers1 153]

Got it!

What's your thinking on installing another spring to pull the clutch fork to the front of the car. I think the clutch fork dust cover hinders free travel and the oem spring, the one from the clutch fork to the lower z-bar is too soft Or, should I dump the oem spring and get a tighter one.

Thank You!

 

PS: I had another thought! What if I disconnect the helper spring from within the car. Would that be safe to do?

Edited November 25, 2011 by prayers1
Additional Info.

[stangs-R-me 120]

You said your clutch is not the O.E. 3 finger type but multi finger ... do you mean DIAPHRAM type like a Centerforce ??

 

If so, the upper pedal assist spring (big coil spring under the dash at the top of the pedal) MUST be removed when you swap in a Diaphram type clutch ... Centerforce for sure, but I'd assume this is the case with other brands too.

 

I just swapped in a Centerforce Dual Friction this summer (kept al the rest of the stock linkage as you have). Had the factory 3-finger type for 25+ years and YES this Diapham type feels completely different.

 

I adjusted the push rod to factory '69 specs and IF it is grabing at a different spot than before I got used to it.

 

Having the lighter pedal effort more like an 80's Mustang rather than an old truck was a welcome change though !!

 

Doug

[prayers1 153]

Yes I meant diaphram. I just read elsewhere that some take off assist spring or as others call it a helper spring when using that type of pressure plate.

In the past, when the z-bar was off I would have to move the clutch pedal from time to time. I found that it would snap into position up or down. I was always worried when working under the dash that the pedal would mistakenly spring up and hit me.

 

How did you take off that spring, any difficulties.

 

Thanks for everyones help!

[stangs-R-me 120]

To get it out, you need to remove the whole pedal support ... which means the steering column too.

 

And while you got it out, you may as well replace the shaft bushings with a ball bearing kit from Mustang Steve. There are roller bearing kits out there too (Scott Drake & maybe others), but these require a perfect un-blemished shaft. Reason this is is the rollers ride right on the shaft surface where Steve's kit has an inner race so the ball bearings are enclosed and the hardened inner race is against the shaft.

 

The roller type kits can be bought with a replacement shaft which is not too difficult to replace, provided it has not already been replaced in the past ... factory shafts are staked into place, so a little grinding will get it out. A replacement shaft is normally welded in so it can be quite a bit more work to replace a 2nd time. This was the case with mine, so I opted for the Steve's kit ... blemishes on the shaft surface just need to be smoothed out with emory cloth until the bearing slides over.

 

You will need a welder either way, as the bearing retainers must be welded to the existing clutch pedal support.

 

When I put the 4-speed in my car 30k miles ago or so in the mid 80's (originally was C4), I used a pedal support that had never been used with a clutch pedal. The 4-spd was out of a '69 Torino and I grabbed the clutch pedal support from it as well. The support & pedal ended up being different, so I found a Mustang one. Support & Shaft of the Mustang one was shot, so I used my old AT support and luckily the Torino shaft was ok and interchangeable.

 

Anyway, when I took mine out this Summer, one of the bushings was split in half after only 30k miles !! So if your car is a factory stick, it is highly likely one or both of your bushings are shot.

 

These bearing kits are a permanent solution (should never need servicing again) to this common Mustang problem.

 

Good luck,

 

Doug

[prayers1 153]

Thanks Doug, that was a lot of good information.

I'll probably due it this spring, my garage is too small and I'm dropping the car off to the body shop for the winter. I have a few things to iron out before that.

Take care,

John

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Got it!

What's your thinking on installing another spring to pull the clutch fork to the front of the car. I think the clutch fork dust cover hinders free travel and the oem spring, the one from the clutch fork to the lower z-bar is too soft Or, should I dump the oem spring and get a tighter one.

Thank You!

 

PS: I had another thought! What if I disconnect the helper spring from within the car. Would that be safe to do?

 

The lower springs function is to keep the adjustment rod in contact with the fork only, so it doesnt drop out of the hole.

It doesn't do any return of the linkage/pedal.

The dust cover doesn't interfer with the operation, it keeps crap from getting into the bellhousing.

 

As for the oversized/longer lower spring, If you do remove the upper pedal spring after repairing the pedal assy later then it is a good idea to use one then.

Once you remove the spring coil from the pedal, it doesn't fully return upwards to rest position after you lift your foot.

So installing a return spring that pulls the linkage all the way back to full rest will help with that condition.

Other option is installing a light spring to the pedal arm up to lower dash to bring it back to full rest position.

[1969 Mach1 14]

I am curious as to how it works out. I originally wanted to install a diaphragm type clutch in my Mach 1. I went with a Borg Warner original three finger type because a local Mustang restoration/repair shop warned me the original linkage geometry does not work well with diaphragm type clutches. Even though mine is a 351w/top loader 4 speed car I actually installed a clutch assembly for a 390 car. I am happy with the operation of it. The pedal pressure is comfortable and doesn't seem too high.

Edited November 29, 2011 by 1969 Mach1

[prayers1 153]

At this point I'm real anxious of getting the car to the bodyshop. Since this repair involves removal of the steering column and etc.. I don't have the time right now to do. I thought this might of been an easy fix, but it looks like I will need a new pin and roller bearings for the pedals as well. Once I get it done I'll post my progress.

Thanks to all for your input and help!