1996 351w Engine Build Thread

[Fordrevhead 29]

Good learning experience. I wish I learned that way. I think you mean .016" (stated as 16 thousandths of an inch) decking the block though.

[kennygunit 10]

Yes, .016, typo, hehe

 

It really is awesome. I actually enjoy going to school!

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

shot peen the block if they'll let you. i wouldn't want to paint over rust.

[1969 Mach1 14]

Motor progress look great. Your motor appears to be in great condition, just normal wear. And, being a roller lifter block is always a plus. As far as boring, bore the minimum that is needed since boring increases the chances of a hot running or overheating engine, especially on small block Fords. I have experienced this and been told this from a few engine builders familiar with small block Fords.

 

Good Luck, Looks Good

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

if you are really serious about upgrading the rotating assembly at a later time then maybe consider saving a 30 over bore for that event.

 

i don't think there is much gain by going 30, especially if you are running stock heads.

[LindenBruce 27]

I agree. .030" over is wasting good block material unless you are going for extra cubic inches. Go .010" or .020" max on the over bore. Besides, if you have the engine around long enough to be rebuilt again, then you can go to .030" or .040" for a second rebuild.

 

Shot peening compacts the surface and reduces stress risers that can lead to cracks. Do the same thing to your rods and crankshaft. Tape up the crankshaft journals to protect them if you are not going to grind them. Then polish the journals.

 

DON'T shot peen the block. DON'T ever use inorganic blasting compounds on an engine block. You will NEVER get it all out of every nook and cranny. If you want to cheat and blast the rust off of your block use sodium bicarbonate blasting media or walnut hull blasting media. Both will dissolve or break up if you don't get it all out of every passage inside of your engine. Or use the good old tried and true wire brush. Bruce

Edited November 13, 2011 by LindenBruce

[Lemon Owner 11]

I agree. .030" over is wasting good block material unless you are going for extra cubic inches. Go .010" or .020" max on the over bore. Besides, if you have the engine around long enough to be rebuilt again, then you can go to .030" or .040" for a second rebuild.

 

 

I agree with you there not going 30 thou over. I never really understood that. Why make your block virtually unrebuildable for a few extra cubes? Is it because it is a common piston size? I just don't get it. And there is no room for something to go wrong like core shift.

[69gmachine 15]

Piston selection is the main reason why I think most people end up going .030 over. Speed Pro makes a good stock replacement type Hyper piston available in .020 over that would be ideal for this application and still leave room for another rebuild later.

[kennygunit 10]

I got to talk to my teacher today, he said that my block will be fine just running stock bore. I'm not going to do any boring, just honing. Thanks for the help everyone! Full update coming on thursday!

[gsxrken 21]

Nice thread and good documentation. I'd make one suggestion- get squared away now with a deep sump, windage-tray and baffled trap-door oil pan and matching oil pump pickup. That way, any auto-X, time attack or track work will preserve your engine for years to come.

You probably need a different pan than the truck donor anyway; buy once/buy right is cheaper in the long run.

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

DON'T shot peen the block.

 

wow. i thought it was a standard procedure for most engine shops.

 

i guess i'm in trouble!

[LindenBruce 27]

The majority of shot peen machines use glass beads as their medium. Well, what is glass made from? Silicon dioxide. Sand. Just like sand paper. Is that something you want in your engine? Not me.

 

Now, some shops are using large "tumblers" to clean these large parts. They are basically over sized vibrating machines that use ball bearing sized steel shot for their cleaning action. And that can be removed from your block. And if a solitary piece of steel shot somehow gets left behind it won't get sucked up past the screen on your oil pump. But it will fall out the next time you change your oil. Bruce

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

The majority of shot peen machines use glass beads as their medium. Well, what is glass made from? Silicon dioxide. Sand. Just like sand paper. Is that something you want in your engine? Not me.

 

Now, some shops are using large "tumblers" to clean these large parts. They are basically over sized vibrating machines that use ball bearing sized steel shot for their cleaning action. And that can be removed from your block. And if a solitary piece of steel shot somehow gets left behind it won't get sucked up past the screen on your oil pump. But it will fall out the next time you change your oil. Bruce

 

do you work in a machine shop? is this normal for a shop to use glass beads for the media for shot peening or are you generalizing a blast cabinet as shot peening?

 

i wouldn't think glass beads would be a very good material for shot peening.

 

why would so many shops offer a service that would be such a high risk of damaging an engine?

[LindenBruce 27]

I used to work in a shop. Using glass beads in shot peening machines, Ie blast cabinet, is common practice and has many benefits for the right parts. For most parts there is no danger to an engine. Rods, cranks, main bearing caps Etc. are easily cleaned in a spray cabinet or solvent tank. The problem with engine blocks are the tiny nooks and crannies everywhere inside of the block. Including oil passages. These nooks and crannies are like sponges trapping those small glass particles, only to be picked up gradually in oil as the engine is being used in service. There is no way to fully guarantee those glass particles can be removed by a spray tank or steam cleaner. That's why you should never use glass beads to clean an engine block.

 

Some shops will clean intake manifolds with a glass bead machine, but in my opinion even that practice is risky. How many times have you hot tanked, spray tanked or steam cleaned an intake thinking you got everything. Only to remove the splash shield on the bottom to find even more junk.

 

You can use other types of media in a blast cabinet too like walnut hulls or poly media. There are automatic machines that use steel shot as well. Hope that helps. Sorry to seem like I'm highjacking things. Just trying to be helpful. Bruce

Edited November 15, 2011 by LindenBruce

[BuckeyeDemon 211]

I used to work in a shop. Using glass beads in shot peening machines, Ie blast cabinet, is common practice and has many benefits for the right parts. For most parts there is no danger to an engine. Rods, cranks, main bearing caps Etc. are easily cleaned in a spray cabinet or solvent tank. The problem with engine blocks are the tiny nooks and crannies everywhere inside of the block. Including oil passages. These nooks and crannies are like sponges trapping those small glass particles, only to be picked up gradually in oil as the engine is being used in service. There is no way to fully guarantee those glass particles can be removed by a spray tank or steam cleaner. That's why you should never use glass beads to clean an engine block.

 

Some shops will clean intake manifolds with a glass bead machine, but in my opinion even that practice is risky. How many times have you hot tanked, spray tanked or steam cleaned an intake thinking you got everything. Only to remove the splash shield on the bottom to find even more junk.

 

You can use other types of media in a blast cabinet too like walnut hulls or poly media. There are automatic machines that use steel shot as well. Hope that helps. Sorry to seem like I'm highjacking things. Just trying to be helpful. Bruce

 

sorry, i'm a little confused by your posts. are you saying steel shot should not be used to clean or block or are you saying it's acceptable?

 

people shouldn't call something shot peening if they are using abrasive media like glass beads, silicon oxide, coal slag, etc. there has been a lot of people post about the problems with using abrasive media (not talking about steel shot) to clean engine parts.

 

machining grit/metal, abrasive media seems like a way higher risk of having some leftover contamination in a block than does large steel balls.

 

a friend of mine wanted to powder coat his engine and the powder coater wanted to media blast (abrasive not shot) his engine. i warned him of the potential issue. that engine lasted less than 50 miles.

 

i've have used walnut shells in my media blast cabinet and it didn't even touch the rust.

[kennygunit 10]

11/17/11

 

This week i just about finished all the machine work and everything. Here is what i got done this week!

 

First thing i did was remove the wrist pin from the pistons and connecting rods. Its crazy the amount of pressure needed to slide this things out. Took about 4 tons of pressure to get it moving, then about 2 tons of continuous pressure after that!

 

 

Here is the table with all my pistons, wrist pins, connecting rods, and rod bolts.

 

 

You might be wondering why my connecting rods look new. I went ahead and glass blasted them (protecting the bearing surfaces), and also did another trick that my teacher suggested. He told us we should grind down the casting marks on the connecting rods. This helps with the oil drain back apparently. Thats something i did not know!

 

 

 

After that, i did one final cleaning on the block, and it was ready to be painted!

 

Of course, i had to go with the classic ford blue. Here are some pictures of the painting!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats it for now!

 

Starting next week, i get to order my rebuild kit and all my new parts. I have some questions for you guys though!

 

1) What intake a carburetor setup would you guys suggest? Looking for performance

 

2) When it comes to getting a timing chain cover, water pump, alternator, harmonic balancer, and other accessories, do i go for 1969 Parts or 1996 Parts?

 

3) Anything else i should do before i start assembly?

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited November 18, 2011 by kennygunit

[1969 Mach1 14]

Motor lookd good. Great Job. Did your teacher mention replacing the connecting rod bolts. That is pretty common to do and is cheap insurance. When using stock connecting rods most shops will install new ARP rod bolts. I would at least do that. Get your teachers opnion, typically the rods are reconditioned after the new rod bolts are installed. I also recommend new ARP head bolts and Fel-Pro p/n 9333PT1 head gaskets. Those are an upgrade from stock, basically a heavy duty OEM type head gasket, they are a perma-torque type, and work great for alot of performance applications. Most parts stores stock them as well.

 

As far as your questions:

1) I have run every aftermarket carbureted manifold and several carbs on my 351w and the best fitting and street performance manifold I have found is the Wieand Stealth with a 700CFM Holley Double Pumper carb. That may not be the best carb for you because it has no provisions for automatic transmission kick-down linkage. Make sure you install the intake gaskets recommended by the intake mainfold mfg. DO NOT use a stock type intake gasket on an aftermarket aluminum intake manifold, they will usually leak and in severe cases cause small head gasket water leaks along the top of the head gasket ( I have seen that myself).

 

2) You need 1969 parts as far as oil pan, timing cover, balancer, water pump, and other accessories. Buy a new replacement timing cover like the one Dorman makes. It is correct for 1969 and still has provisions for the two locator dowels in your 1996 block.

 

3) The only other thing I can think of right now is you will need a one piece fuel pump eccentric to drive your mechanical fuel pump, make sure you have the longer dowel pin that aligns the timing chain and fuel pump eccentric. Not sure what year motor timing chain set to use. Your best bet there would be the double roller timing chain set Ford Racing sells. I know for a fact it fits both 1969 and 1996 blocks, comes with long and short dowels, new retainer plate, and new retainer plate bolts.

 

Have fun, motor looks great

Edited November 19, 2011 by 1969 Mach1

[kennygunit 10]

Yes, i bought some ARP connecting rods bolts. I am also going to check for roundness and hone as needed. Ill look into those head gaskets as well. I was just going to use one from a master rebuild kit O.O

 

 

1) yea, i need to get a carb for an automatic. Isn't 700cfm a little too much? I was thinking i would need a 600, 650 max. Also, that intake looks good. Just need to make sure i can fit it with a stock hood

 

2) Thanks for the info on that. Didn't want to screw that up! O.O

 

3) I totally forgot about the fuel pump. :cursing: That should answer the questions as to which year timing chain cover i need, hehe

 

Thanks for the response!

[LoneWolf2U 136]

Here's a tip before you start assy, I use a 2x4 about 10in long covered with a peice of 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper sprayed with WD40 to clean the all the gasket surfaces.

You want to remove any overspray and insure a flat clean surface for the new gasket to seal against so they won't weep and it will show any high/low spots where maybe a extra dab of sealent could be used.

 

Once blocked and ready for gasket, I wipe the surface area with a rag sprayed with parts cleaner to ensure oils removed and then a dry cloth.

Apply thin film of black gasket sealer over surface and let tack and install gasket inplace.

 

:detective:... I don't like leaks.....

[LindenBruce 27]

Looking good Kenny. On your rods grind that casting mark down to the top of the bolt area just like you did on the sides or beams. Then re blast them in your glass bead cabinet. That will help even out the surface of the rods and reduce those stress risers that contribute to rod failure.

 

Here are a couple of pics of the profile work I did on my 428PI rods. These should help you visualize what I'm saying. Bruce

Edited November 18, 2011 by LindenBruce

[1969 Mach1 14]

Kenny,

 

The Weiand Stealth fits great under a stock. It actually fits with more hood to air cleaner clearance than an Edelbrock Performer RPM. The Stealth on a 351w in a 1969 Mach 1, stock flat hood, Moroso 14" air cleaner with 3" tall filter, had over an inch clearance between the hood and air cleaner top, and 5/8" between the wing nut and hood. Air cleaner never touched the good. The Edlebrock Performer (not the Performer RPM) is the same height as stock but I wouldn't spend my money on one of those.

 

As far as carb size the 650 cfm size works well on a 351w. I wouldn't go any smaller. I definitely would not buy Holley's common universal 600 cfm vacuum secondary carb (p/n 1850). I have never seen on of those work well at all. Holley's web site has an interactive carb selection utility that works ok.

 

FYI: If you are unsure about the intake manifold you select fitting. Buy it from Summit or Jegs. Then carefully mock it up, placing masking tape over all the gasket surfaces and such so you don't scratch it. Summit and Jegs are great with returns so if you are not happy with the fit you can exchange it and only be out the shipping.

 

Good Luck

Edited November 19, 2011 by 1969 Mach1

[1969 Mach1 14]

Kenny,

 

Before you assemble have you thought about a camshaft? If anything other than stock research it now. Even if mild performance, which is fine for stock cylinder heads and compression, those stock valve springs, retainers, and keepers will have to be replaced. Those stock springs are failry week and you don't want the exhaust valve rotators for a performance application. FYI, Ford Racing and Trick Flow has drop in springs, retainers, and keepers to replace those stock components without any additional machine work, and they will handle alot of mild performance hydraulic roller camshafts. Also be aware stock rocker arms will sometimes hit larger diameter valve springs.

 

Good Luck

[kennygunit 10]

Hey,

 

I have been thinking about all the new parts i'm going to need. Tomorrow I am going to a local performance shop and going to order a rebuild kit, and see what they would suggest in terms of cams, pistons and other upgrades. Going to get a mild cam and flat top pistons to get better compression. I'm going to get new springs, and all new front accessories. I'll keep you all updated on what i order :thumbup1:

[1969 Mach1 14]

Kenny:

 

Kenny,

 

Wow, there are still local speed shops in business these days. Whatever cam you select, make sure it is a roller tappet style and not a flat tappet style, has a 351w-302HO firing order, and is not one of those hydraulic roller retrofit small base circle cams. The 289-302 firing order cams interchange but the 289-302 firing order is hard on the front main bearing. That is why Ford switched it.

[kennygunit 10]

12/10/11

 

I've been doing a lot of work on my engine build! I have about 8 days left to build this motor, so its getting down the wire. I have all the parts i need (except intake and carb), so i've been working on assembly!

 

First thing i did was install my cam bearings. This was a very easy process, just match the bearing number, to the number listed on the box, and with a lot of persuasion, they go right in!

 

 

 

After all the cam bearing were in place, we moved onto the freeze plugs. Those were also very easy to install. We just took a socket that was roughly the same size, lined it up, and hammered them in!

 

 

 

 

 

I received my camshaft in from Comp Cams. I got a lot of input from a lot of different people, and this what i finally decided on:

 

 

 

 

Once the Cam was installed, we moved onto getting the crankshaft put in. The bearings were placed down, and we put the crankshaft on top of them dry so we can get a measurement using plati-gauge. I don't have any pictures of the measurements, but it ended up being .002" (according to alldata, i needed to be at .0015, but my teacher said .002" is more normal, so it will be fine).

 

 

I torqued the main caps down to 100ft-lbs, and moved onto installing the thrust plate for the camshaft, and the timing chain. I ordered a Comp Cam doubler roller timing chain. Installation for it was very easy. Just needed a little persuasion to get it on.

 

 

 

 

 

One major problem I ran into was trying to get a fuel pump eccentric to work with the cam pins they provided. Since I am running a carburetor setup, i need to be able to run a mechanical fuel pump. I just got some new pins, but I am not sure if they fit yet. I won't be able to find out until Monday. Thanks for the heads on that Mach 1. I noticed there were 2 pins that came in the box, but even the longer one didn't fit. I just have to be careful that i don't run into any problems with timing chain cover clearance.

Edited December 10, 2011 by kennygunit