Comments on plans for build

[69stang 11]

Thank you so much Bnickel, I like the options for the spreadbore, I was starting to think I was SoL. I know Offy makes an intake for a 351 but only a high rise one, which i dont think will fit under the hood.

 

I have to look up the Holley versions see how they compare. I have done a lot of research on the Qjet (got 2 books I am reading on it), but wouldn't mind doing a Holley version. I like the concept in general.

 

Tonight I will look up the intake/carb. Would you stick with the 185's from AFR (I know its stupid but I am kinda sold on AFR due to all the stuff I have read).

 

Mainly, what cam would you recommend, it is a daily driver so I don't want anything TOO crazy.

[6T9Mach1 12]

I mentioned something on VMF about your intake; check out a Holley StreetDominator intake. Its a low-rise single plane set up for both square and spread bore carbs. It should be a very good intake for the hp you are trying to reach.

[6T9Mach1 12]

I mentioned something on VMF about your intake; check out a Holley StreetDominator intake. Its a low-rise single plane set up for both square and spread bore carbs. It should be a very good intake for the hp you are trying to reach.

[69stang 11]

Yea, Bnickel sent the ebay link for one, I can't seem to find any info on google about it, but thank both of you for all the help! =)

 

Beautiful car btw man.

[69stang 11]

Yea, Bnickel sent the ebay link for one, I can't seem to find any info on google about it, but thank both of you for all the help! =)

 

Beautiful car btw man.

[bnickel 10,004]

the holley intake is an old piece they discontinued that particular one back in the late 80's IIRC, pretty much any spread bore intake you find will be a vintage piece nowadays. yes, i'd say the 185's would be fine if you choose the right cam for them. i'm not so great at picking cams for certain combo's some i do alright with some not so great. i would call comp's tech line and get some recommendations from them and then post them up here so we can help you pick one out. one thing i've found with comp's tech line is that they are either too aggressive or too restrained in helping pick a certain cam so it helps to get them to recommend 2 or 3 different ones. the XE series cams are pretty good though

[bnickel 10,004]

the holley intake is an old piece they discontinued that particular one back in the late 80's IIRC, pretty much any spread bore intake you find will be a vintage piece nowadays. yes, i'd say the 185's would be fine if you choose the right cam for them. i'm not so great at picking cams for certain combo's some i do alright with some not so great. i would call comp's tech line and get some recommendations from them and then post them up here so we can help you pick one out. one thing i've found with comp's tech line is that they are either too aggressive or too restrained in helping pick a certain cam so it helps to get them to recommend 2 or 3 different ones. the XE series cams are pretty good though

[Pakrat 1,043]

Beautiful car btw man.

 

You should see it when he uses the BIG sig pic! :tongue_smilie:

[Pakrat 1,043]

Beautiful car btw man.

 

You should see it when he uses the BIG sig pic! :tongue_smilie:

[69stang 11]

Ok so I called around today, and it seems for about $1500 I can get the motor rebuilt (1300 for cast, 1500 for forged pistons), Is it worth the extra money for forged? You can see the build plan here. I am tempted to say yes, and build it right the first time.

 

Are there any disc brake kits for a 9" that keep the stock backspacing? (I already bought my Keystone Klassics and love them). How hard is it to set up a parking brake if you swap to disc, with a manual trans i use it A LOT.

[69stang 11]

Ok so I called around today, and it seems for about $1500 I can get the motor rebuilt (1300 for cast, 1500 for forged pistons), Is it worth the extra money for forged? You can see the build plan here. I am tempted to say yes, and build it right the first time.

 

Are there any disc brake kits for a 9" that keep the stock backspacing? (I already bought my Keystone Klassics and love them). How hard is it to set up a parking brake if you swap to disc, with a manual trans i use it A LOT.

[69stang 11]

Turns out I am going with a 302 not a 351 (different parts car i ended up getting which is a good thing, it will be in my garage tomorrow)

 

What does everyone think of single plane intakes? Are they really as bad as I have read (higher hp but suck for anything on the street?)

 

How good is the stock exhaust manifold? Worth Replacing? If so, with what?

[Pakrat 1,043]

Well all I can say is the Weind Intake, Holly 600cfm, long tube headers and a nice CAM with some advanced timing really woke up my 302 from the comparitive stock coma it was in.

[6T9Mach1 12]

For the most part a high-rise dual plane intake is the way to go on the street. A low-rise single plane with a 4-hole spacer would work pretty well also. I'm using a Holley StreetDominator intake on my 351w build; its a low-rise single plane, but it has smaller runners which help its low end torque. According to my Desktop Dyno I'm losing 30 ftlbs of torque at 2000 rpms in comparison to a dual plane intake but I still will have 350 ftlbs. I actually gain 20 ftlbs of peak torque at 4500 rpms over the dual plane. The single plane setting on the dyno is probably for a Victor Jr. style intake, not a low-rise like what I am using so it will most likely produce more low end torque.

 

If you are going to use a single plane intake on the street do not over-carb the motor. A carb a little small is better than one a little big. With a single plane and a carb that is too big on the street, fuel can accumulate on the floor of the intake causing the engine to bog.

[69stang 11]

Ok, only read one article so far about the 4 hole spacers, it sounds very good.

 

I figure I would do the Holley Qjet Replacement (650 cfm), a holley street dominator intake, with a tapered/4 hole spacer, and AFR 165s. I still have to look into Cams and ask around to see what is ideal for that.

 

I really want to make sure everything matches up well to be a good all around car. Basically good gas mileage/reliability are the priority, but being able to show up some ricers and compete with a vette would be AWESOME.(Might be over estimating but I can dream right?)

 

I figure a well built 302 (well matched parts etc), with a T-5 behind it, and a 9" with traction lock and decent gears behind that, with all new grab a track suspension/sway bars (and new brakes), I should be pretty well set. The next goal after the engine build will be balancing the car/putting it on a diet.

[6T9Mach1 12]

Check out this web site http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/tech.htm Lots of very good sbf information. The "Building the Perfect Combination" & "Blueprints for Speed" sections will help you narrow down what type of performance you are seeking and what cam size range you will be looking at. You need to decide what hp range you want before looking at cams or your head will be swimming.

[bnickel 10,004]

if you want good mileage stay away from the 650 holley Q-jet replacement carb and stick with your 750 Qjet plan, we put one of the 650 holleys on my buddies dodge pickup when the old Q-jet went south and it sucked...literally, it lost about 4-5 mpg over the old 750 Q-jet he had on it but we couldn't find another decent Q-jet core worth building beause all them either had worn out throttle shafts/bores or worn out accelerator pump bores. we could have fixed the throttle bores if we could have found a kit for them but no one sells a kit for the Q-jet throttle bores any more that we could find so he went with the holley until he just couldn't stand it any more and swapped the intake to a regular square bore and ran a 600 edelbrock, mileage went back to almost where it was at with the original 750 Q-jet he had on it.

[69stang 11]

Ok I will do the 750 than, I just figured the 650 would be a better match for a 302 cfm wise. I am torn, after finding out my T5 is probably only good for 330 torque, I started panicking haha. I am contemplating just going with the Edelbrock Power Package (367 hp/340 tq is what they claim but since my motor isnt rebuilt and their claims are probably a little higher than true results i figure it would be ok and everything would match well.

 

I LOVE the idea of the spreadbore, but it seems to be very unpopular for Ford. Its tough to try to figure out a good match and hope it works vs getting one i know will. What do you guys think?

 

What kind of mileage will a 600 cfm edelbrock carb get (with the power package) vs the other plan just discussed (afr/holley street dominator/holley qjet 750)

 

Sorry for the scrambled post.

[69stang 11]

What if I did a Spread Bore Adapter on top of the Edelbrock intake (im pretty sure its square bore). Would this work similarly to the spacers? Would this work out well?

 

Sorry for so many questions, I am new to all this =) (4 years of working on my car and i still feel like i know nothing =), i guess you try to learn as much as possible whenever you can)

[69again 10]

I went with the Performer RPM package in my 302 with the Edelbrock carb #1407, 750 cfm. Talk to the Edelbrock tech guys. They were very helpful in matching up. The guy that did my dyno said that if you use the same components they see the Edelbrock #'s regularly. Although, he thought we could get more out of it with a Holley carb. Edelbrock specs say 367 at 6500rpm. We only took mine to 6000 rpm but ended up with 360 hp and 348tq at 4500rpm, so had we wound it out that far, we may have seen the #'s. Haven't driven it yet, but it seems like an awful lot of cam.

[bnickel 10,004]

the offy spreadbore for the 302 might be a little easier to find than the 351 version. you could still go with the E'brock stuff and just sell the intake or you could try it with the adapter too. i'd still try to find an actual spreadbore intake if you can though. i know people running 750 holleys on low 13 second 289 hi-po's so a 750 Qjet on a 302 sin't much of a stretch and as long as you keep your foot out of the secondaries it should get excellent mileage, assuming you have it set up correctly. one thing you shoul keep in mind about carburetors is that it's ok to go a little bigger than is actually necessary because the engine will only pull as much as air as it needs through the carb, and as long as you have jetted properly for your engine it will work perfectly fine, plus it will give you room for expansion, so to speak.

 

i gotta tell you though that one of the best intakes ever made for the small block ford is the cobra hi-rise style, same as the ford muscle parts C90X intake, the ford motorsport a-321, the edelbrock F-4B and the new Weiand Action Plus intake is very similar as well. it's not a spreadbore intake but you could always try it with an adapter or use an Edelbrock performer carb instead. i had a 600 carter AFB (same as the e'brock performer) on my last 351w and it was a great carb, i got the best mileage out of my car ever with that carb, 24mpg out of a 351 in a 69 stang with no overdrive and a 3.25 gear ain't too shabby ya know what i mean?

 

 

here's one of the C90X intakes on ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-C9OX-Orig-Ford-Mustang-Torino-302-Aluminum-Intake_W0QQitemZ380022313886QQihZ025QQcategoryZ10076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

here's another holley street dominator spread bore intake for the 289/302

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Street-Dominator-intake-manifold-SBF-302-Ford_W0QQitemZ250242090733QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6763QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[69stang 11]

What kind of power were you making with the 351 set up?

 

I am 90% sure I want to go with the spreadbore, but am worried about matching all the components well since I have never done this before. I am doing as much research as i can before i dive in too deep.

[6T9Mach1 12]

A 750cfm carb is going to be way too much carb for a 302, let alone one with a single plane intake. With a moderately built 302 600-650 is all the more you will ever need.

[69stang 11]

Its confusing =(

[bnickel 10,004]

A 750cfm carb is going to be way too much carb for a 302, let alone one with a single plane intake. With a moderately built 302 600-650 is all the more you will ever need.

 

 

remember we're talking about a quadrajet here, the primary throttle bore are tiny, way smaller than a 600 holley or even a 4100 autolite and it's a vacumm secondary carb too, the engine will only draw as much air as it can use so it won't be pulling the whole 750 cfm through the carb. GM didn't make anything smaller than a 750 QJ and they used it on 305's, 307's, 283's as well as 427's. he will be perfectly fine with a 750 QJ as long as it's set-up properly.

 

however, if you do think that 750 is too big holley made a 4011 carb that was a spreadbore available in 600, 650, and 750 CFM sizes and in either vacuum secondary or mechanical secondary they come up on ebay all the time and look a lot like the old autolite 4100, since it was actually based on the 4100 design that holley originally designed for ford back in the 50's but updated quite a bit. it's similar to this one here but a speradbore

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-750-cfm-Model-4010-Marine-Carburetor_W0QQitemZ140230302196QQihZ004QQcategoryZ31286QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem