Comments on plans for build

[69stang 11]

(This is also posted on vintage-mustang.com, so if you read both you can skip it haha)

 

1969 Mustang Coupe

Front Suspension:

Grab-a-track 620 lb springs

Grab-a-track shocks

New Upper and Lower Control Arms (stock)(new saddles and perches etc as well)

Shelby/Arning Drop

1" Sway bar (if i remember right)

 

Rear Suspension:

Grab-a-track 4 leaf regular mount

Grab-a-track shocks

Rear Sway bar

 

Transmission:

Brand New T5 with .63 OD

 

Other Upgrades:

Sub-frame Connectors

Granada Disc Swap

Battery Relocation

 

That is all done ... the next part is speculation

 

Engine:

351 Windsor

AFR 185's

Offenhauser 6012-DP (Spreadbore)

Quadrajet 750 cfm

Not sure on Cam yet

 

Rear:

3.55? gear (want to find something that will launch well but will also be low rpm @ 65 mph)

 

Goals:

Pretty much an all around car. It is my daily driver so I want mileage/reliability. But I am hoping to get a good amount of power (hoping for the magical 300@ the wheels or close). It will be taken to Open Track events (circle track), and some autocross at times, and it might see a drag strip once or twice (not regularly at all).

 

Comments? Thoughts?

[69stang 11]

(This is also posted on vintage-mustang.com, so if you read both you can skip it haha)

 

1969 Mustang Coupe

Front Suspension:

Grab-a-track 620 lb springs

Grab-a-track shocks

New Upper and Lower Control Arms (stock)(new saddles and perches etc as well)

Shelby/Arning Drop

1" Sway bar (if i remember right)

 

Rear Suspension:

Grab-a-track 4 leaf regular mount

Grab-a-track shocks

Rear Sway bar

 

Transmission:

Brand New T5 with .63 OD

 

Other Upgrades:

Sub-frame Connectors

Granada Disc Swap

Battery Relocation

 

That is all done ... the next part is speculation

 

Engine:

351 Windsor

AFR 185's

Offenhauser 6012-DP (Spreadbore)

Quadrajet 750 cfm

Not sure on Cam yet

 

Rear:

3.55? gear (want to find something that will launch well but will also be low rpm @ 65 mph)

 

Goals:

Pretty much an all around car. It is my daily driver so I want mileage/reliability. But I am hoping to get a good amount of power (hoping for the magical 300@ the wheels or close). It will be taken to Open Track events (circle track), and some autocross at times, and it might see a drag strip once or twice (not regularly at all).

 

Comments? Thoughts?

[UnrulySchoolboy 10]

Looks good to me, I'm looking at going with a T-5 Swap and 3.55s also.

 

One thing you might want to consider is Mustang Steve's brake kits but I guess it all depends on what you are doing for wheels.

[UnrulySchoolboy 10]

Looks good to me, I'm looking at going with a T-5 Swap and 3.55s also.

 

One thing you might want to consider is Mustang Steve's brake kits but I guess it all depends on what you are doing for wheels.

[69stang 11]

Keystone Classic Wheels... what does the brake kit do? Rear Discs?

[69stang 11]

Keystone Classic Wheels... what does the brake kit do? Rear Discs?

[coz 108]

What's your plans with the T5? Meaning do you plan on actually using OD? If so, you should rethink either the 5th gear ratio or bump up the rear end gear. Maybe too late now though... I run 3.90 gears with a TKO600 and .68 OD and I rarely find I can put it in 5th gear and stay at or below 70mph. Now some of that is the characteristics of the engine I have where it doesn't like cruising at sub 2000 rpm. But the idea behind OD is to cruise and save a little gas - tough to do if you're north of 80mph before you get the full effect of OD.

 

Maybe you will be fine, however, it's amazing the number of people I've talked to that did a manual OD setup and really wish they have put something taller than 3.55's in the rear.

[coz 108]

What's your plans with the T5? Meaning do you plan on actually using OD? If so, you should rethink either the 5th gear ratio or bump up the rear end gear. Maybe too late now though... I run 3.90 gears with a TKO600 and .68 OD and I rarely find I can put it in 5th gear and stay at or below 70mph. Now some of that is the characteristics of the engine I have where it doesn't like cruising at sub 2000 rpm. But the idea behind OD is to cruise and save a little gas - tough to do if you're north of 80mph before you get the full effect of OD.

 

Maybe you will be fine, however, it's amazing the number of people I've talked to that did a manual OD setup and really wish they have put something taller than 3.55's in the rear.

[UnrulySchoolboy 10]

Mustangsteve.com

Check it out, he has a disk brake conversion so that you can use 94 to 04 Cobra brakes either front or rear or both if you so choose. He also has a set that uses 05 Mustang Gt brakes for the front for sale on Ebay. Only downside is the cobras require a 17" wheel and the GT's I think work with 16" but I'm not sure.

 

Good to hear the 3.55s might be a bad idea cause I pretty much had my mind made up, looks like I'll step up to the next set.

[UnrulySchoolboy 10]

Mustangsteve.com

Check it out, he has a disk brake conversion so that you can use 94 to 04 Cobra brakes either front or rear or both if you so choose. He also has a set that uses 05 Mustang Gt brakes for the front for sale on Ebay. Only downside is the cobras require a 17" wheel and the GT's I think work with 16" but I'm not sure.

 

Good to hear the 3.55s might be a bad idea cause I pretty much had my mind made up, looks like I'll step up to the next set.

[Pakrat 1,043]

You raise a good point there Coz and I guess the engine does matter alot. That is basically what I was going to do becasue I thought it would be more streetable, didn't the 5.0's have like a 3:50? My body guy has been trying to talk me into something steeper like a 3:90 but even with a modded 302 I was a little afraid.

[Pakrat 1,043]

You raise a good point there Coz and I guess the engine does matter alot. That is basically what I was going to do becasue I thought it would be more streetable, didn't the 5.0's have like a 3:50? My body guy has been trying to talk me into something steeper like a 3:90 but even with a modded 302 I was a little afraid.

[coz 108]

Good to hear the 3.55s might be a bad idea cause I pretty much had my mind made up, looks like I'll step up to the next set.

 

Or go with the .82 OD option if available in the T5. That is what I should have done with the TKO.

 

If you jump up rear end gears you may want to jump to 4.10's. Now remember I have a Cleveland and you have a Windsor (I believe). You may find the W has a lower cruising rpm that the C. There are some online calcs that will tell you RPMs if you input tire size, rear gear and final drive gear.

 

Try this speed analyzer and work back from your desired 5th gear RPM. That should give you a good idea of final drive and rear gears. With my tires (275/60/15) 3.89 rear and .62 TKO I can do 70 at 2000rpm. That's (2k rpm) barely running for my engine but yours? That may be perfect.... I find with my setup I need to do around 75mph to not be lugging along. 75 in a red mach1 is asking for a ticket if done for any amount of time. And isn't that what OD is all about - long distances at lower RPMs?

 

One thing I don't buy (but think is cool if true) is a stock 3.89 rear pulls likes a 4.81 rear with a TKO and my setup....

 

http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=57

[coz 108]

Good to hear the 3.55s might be a bad idea cause I pretty much had my mind made up, looks like I'll step up to the next set.

 

Or go with the .82 OD option if available in the T5. That is what I should have done with the TKO.

 

If you jump up rear end gears you may want to jump to 4.10's. Now remember I have a Cleveland and you have a Windsor (I believe). You may find the W has a lower cruising rpm that the C. There are some online calcs that will tell you RPMs if you input tire size, rear gear and final drive gear.

 

Try this speed analyzer and work back from your desired 5th gear RPM. That should give you a good idea of final drive and rear gears. With my tires (275/60/15) 3.89 rear and .62 TKO I can do 70 at 2000rpm. That's (2k rpm) barely running for my engine but yours? That may be perfect.... I find with my setup I need to do around 75mph to not be lugging along. 75 in a red mach1 is asking for a ticket if done for any amount of time. And isn't that what OD is all about - long distances at lower RPMs?

 

One thing I don't buy (but think is cool if true) is a stock 3.89 rear pulls likes a 4.81 rear with a TKO and my setup....

 

http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=57

[69stang 11]

I will probably will go with something higher than a 3.50 than, I have to look up a mathematical equation, and check my tire size in inches etc. I think I have 245/40/15 but I am not positive.

[69stang 11]

I will probably will go with something higher than a 3.50 than, I have to look up a mathematical equation, and check my tire size in inches etc. I think I have 245/40/15 but I am not positive.

[Solo2 0]

You are almost getting the best bang-for-the-buck with the Global stuff. But there is one better, try opentracker racing for the suspension. He is "THE BEST BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK"! http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/

He will steer you in the right direction. Great man to deal with.

For the subframe connectors try Tinman he is the best;

http://www.tinmanfabrication.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=60/home_id=59/mode=cat/cat60.htm

http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/subframe.

The second best subframe is the TCP product.

http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Suspension/subframe_connectors.htm

 

You need to rethink about your motor build, the head is too small for the carb, the 205 is a better head choice for that carb but, it all depends on the cam profile, doesn't it

? If you keep the 185 the 650cfm carb would be better choice.

Here is a simple carb requirement formula:

carb cfm required = (cubic inches x RPM/3456) X VE%

example: (351x6000rpm/3456) x 85% = 517.97 cfm

See even your monster killer 351 just needs no more than 600 cfm carb.

Please rethink your motor build and its purpose? street driving only, 1/4 mile running or open track?

[Solo2 0]

You are almost getting the best bang-for-the-buck with the Global stuff. But there is one better, try opentracker racing for the suspension. He is "THE BEST BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK"! http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/

He will steer you in the right direction. Great man to deal with.

For the subframe connectors try Tinman he is the best;

http://www.tinmanfabrication.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=60/home_id=59/mode=cat/cat60.htm

http://www.midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/subframe.

The second best subframe is the TCP product.

http://www.mustangdepot.com/OnLineCatalog/Suspension/subframe_connectors.htm

 

You need to rethink about your motor build, the head is too small for the carb, the 205 is a better head choice for that carb but, it all depends on the cam profile, doesn't it

? If you keep the 185 the 650cfm carb would be better choice.

Here is a simple carb requirement formula:

carb cfm required = (cubic inches x RPM/3456) X VE%

example: (351x6000rpm/3456) x 85% = 517.97 cfm

See even your monster killer 351 just needs no more than 600 cfm carb.

Please rethink your motor build and its purpose? street driving only, 1/4 mile running or open track?

[69stang 11]

Yea I have done the calculations for my carb. The reason why I was going with 750 Cfm, is because Qjet's didn't have anything lower. (750 and 800 if i remember right)

 

I love the idea of a Qjet for a couple reasons, small primaries = low end torque and GREAT for gas mileage if you keep off the gas, large secondaries = great for high end, And when those secondaries open up, it sounds like god... shouting.

 

Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to rethink the engine build because they dont offer a low rise intake to match the Qjet to the 351 (they do for the 289/302 etc), seeing how the 351 is taller already, I don't think there is a chance it will fit.

 

Does anyone know if the 1" lowering motor mounts require any other mods?

 

Also does anyone know how much HP/TQ a T5 (im guessing from a new cobra due to the .63 OD) can handle?

[69stang 11]

Yea I have done the calculations for my carb. The reason why I was going with 750 Cfm, is because Qjet's didn't have anything lower. (750 and 800 if i remember right)

 

I love the idea of a Qjet for a couple reasons, small primaries = low end torque and GREAT for gas mileage if you keep off the gas, large secondaries = great for high end, And when those secondaries open up, it sounds like god... shouting.

 

Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to rethink the engine build because they dont offer a low rise intake to match the Qjet to the 351 (they do for the 289/302 etc), seeing how the 351 is taller already, I don't think there is a chance it will fit.

 

Does anyone know if the 1" lowering motor mounts require any other mods?

 

Also does anyone know how much HP/TQ a T5 (im guessing from a new cobra due to the .63 OD) can handle?

[bnickel 10,004]

stock 5.0 mustangs came with either a 2.73, 3.08 or optional 3.23 (only on 5 speeds) and that's it.

 

there is an old offy intake that was made for a spreadbore carb on a 351w. i see them on ebay all the time so keep an eye out for one there, i believe it was the port-o-sonice or the 360, can't remember for sure. i think your engine build sounds fine and also they put the 750 Q-jet on stock 305's so i don't think you'll have a problem with it using the 185 heads at all.

 

the Q-jet is a great carb for mileage if you keep your foot of it (good luck on that) so when coupled to a 5 speed and decent gears you should get really good mileage on the highway. i think your OD ratio will be fine with the 3.55's and the 351 unless you go with a really long duration cam. the windsor makes great low end torque whereas the 4v cleve that Coz has probably wouldn't get out of it's own way under 1500rpm (no offense Coz!!!!:biggrin:)

 

 

i just checked ebay and couldn't find one of the offy intakes i was talking about but i did find a holley street dominator that has a spreadbore pattern too.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustang-351-Windsor-Holley-Street-Dominator-Intake_W0QQitemZ270231415134QQihZ017QQcategoryZ34198QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[bnickel 10,004]

stock 5.0 mustangs came with either a 2.73, 3.08 or optional 3.23 (only on 5 speeds) and that's it.

 

there is an old offy intake that was made for a spreadbore carb on a 351w. i see them on ebay all the time so keep an eye out for one there, i believe it was the port-o-sonice or the 360, can't remember for sure. i think your engine build sounds fine and also they put the 750 Q-jet on stock 305's so i don't think you'll have a problem with it using the 185 heads at all.

 

the Q-jet is a great carb for mileage if you keep your foot of it (good luck on that) so when coupled to a 5 speed and decent gears you should get really good mileage on the highway. i think your OD ratio will be fine with the 3.55's and the 351 unless you go with a really long duration cam. the windsor makes great low end torque whereas the 4v cleve that Coz has probably wouldn't get out of it's own way under 1500rpm (no offense Coz!!!!:biggrin:)

 

 

i just checked ebay and couldn't find one of the offy intakes i was talking about but i did find a holley street dominator that has a spreadbore pattern too.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustang-351-Windsor-Holley-Street-Dominator-Intake_W0QQitemZ270231415134QQihZ017QQcategoryZ34198QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[bnickel 10,004]

you might also want to consider a different spread bore carb as well. the Q-jet has always various different problems but if you bought a new Edelbrock Q-jet you probably won't have to deal with them.

 

i'd consider one of the holey 4011 carbs, you get the best of the Q-jet, autolite 4100 carb and the versatility of the holley all in one complete package....here's one on ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-HOLLEY-MARINE-CARBURETOR-R84022_W0QQitemZ260232464820QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33550QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[bnickel 10,004]

you might also want to consider a different spread bore carb as well. the Q-jet has always various different problems but if you bought a new Edelbrock Q-jet you probably won't have to deal with them.

 

i'd consider one of the holey 4011 carbs, you get the best of the Q-jet, autolite 4100 carb and the versatility of the holley all in one complete package....here's one on ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-HOLLEY-MARINE-CARBURETOR-R84022_W0QQitemZ260232464820QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33550QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[69stang 11]

Thank you so much Bnickel, I like the options for the spreadbore, I was starting to think I was SoL. I know Offy makes an intake for a 351 but only a high rise one, which i dont think will fit under the hood.

 

I have to look up the Holley versions see how they compare. I have done a lot of research on the Qjet (got 2 books I am reading on it), but wouldn't mind doing a Holley version. I like the concept in general.

 

Tonight I will look up the intake/carb. Would you stick with the 185's from AFR (I know its stupid but I am kinda sold on AFR due to all the stuff I have read).

 

Mainly, what cam would you recommend, it is a daily driver so I don't want anything TOO crazy.