The Plans

[69stang 11]

Ok heres the plans i have made so far. The car will be completely redone. I want it to be basicly a completely new/reliable car (instead of buying a new car). I want it to still have some muscle car feel and the muscle car looks (i dont mind the seats being different). I want to try to get better than 20 mpg, better than 350 hp if possible, get better handling/braking than stock and make it a comfortable more daily driver ride.

 

Engine- have to go to a engine shop but from talking to people here is what basicly i have kinda decided i liked. a 351 Windsor with fuel injection possibly turbo'd/supercharged, bored out .030 over. figuring around 6,500 (not sure)

 

Transmission- Tremek 5 speed - 2300ish

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TR4615+01&Category=Drivetrain&subCategory=Transmissions&CatKey=EMUSTANG

 

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TRA423+01&Category=&catkey=EMUSTANG

 

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TR236041X+01&Category=&catkey=EMUSTANG

 

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=TR0132+01&Category=&catkey=EMUSTANG

 

Aluminum Radiator - 400 dollars

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=DA125+01&Category=Heating+%26+Cooling&subCategory=Radiators&CatKey=EMUSTANG

 

 

Rear end- 9" rear 3.25 gear ratio and 5 stud axles- 2100

http://www.uniqueperformanceproducts.com/Rearend.aspx

 

Suspension - Street Bandit Handling Kit (from National Parts Depot) - 400

 

Rims/Wheels - Pirelli Pero Nero 235/55/ZR17, and Bullitt 17x8s - 800

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=B1007T+01&Category=&catkey=EMUSTANG

 

Disc Brakes- Power front and Rear Discs - 2300

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=A121P+01&Category=Wheels+%26+Brakes&subCategory=Disc+Brake+Conversion+Kits&CatKey=EMUSTANG

 

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=A110+01&Category=Wheels+%26+Brakes&subCategory=Disc+Brake+Conversion+Kits&CatKey=EMUSTANG

 

15,300

+1,200 -(random unaccounted expenses)

-------

16,500

 

any tips, things i forgot etc. please tell me, if u think anything i have isn't priced right tell me (too cheap or too expensive), if u think certain brands would be better worth it than what i've listed tell me too =), basicly all advice/comments are welcome.

 

The interior will be completely redone with woodgrain dash, power windows, power locks, the remote locks, possibly kick panel speakers in addition the the 2 6x9's in the back, new guages, new seats, new carpet as well. :yes:

[TStone 10]

Couple things -

 

Call and check about fitment of those rims - I think you'll need spacers.

 

Also do you any pics of your car now?

[69stang 11]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/673209/1

 

Old pictures theres been quite a bit of work done to it, espeically getting rid of the CRAZY wiring that had been in that car *shudders*. The car was picked cause i like the coupe better than the fastback, and it has NO rust on it and no bondo, checked out by a couple body shops.

[BAMF69 11]

You don't need spacers for the bullitt rims since they sell replicas with a 4.5 backspace. I know because i have a set on a 66 mustang. You look like a young guy and sound like me when i first started my project. Just a word of advice is try not spend your entire life saving into this car. Spend your money on the bodywork first, since that's what's going to take longer. I did not paint my car first so now im suffering having to take everything back out to get it detailed. The interior is not that hard if your going back to stock. I would also get the front suspension done next and after the car is painted i would get the drivetrain going. If your going to try to get 350hp and 20mpg i suggest you get a 5.0 efi engine. There is no way you can get 20mpg turbocharged since you need more fuel for the extra air going into the engine.

 

I would follow these steps...I'm sure other people would tell you different...this is just my opinion so your welcome to disagree.

 

1. Change the front and rear suspension. You can get everything looking nice with some paint too.

 

2. Remove the entire interior before you take it to the body shop so you won't get overspray on it.

 

3. Remove any rubber or plastic parts by the doors because depending on the price of the paint they would just mask them off and paint over them.

 

4. When the interior is out you can start installing the sound deadener. (quiets the car)

 

5. Once all this is done send the car to paint.

 

6. when you get your car back you can start installing the interior..

 

7. You can install the wheels since the suspension is done..

 

8. When the car is at the body shop you could have the time to get the engine ready to install

 

9. Install the engine and transmission and wire everything up..

 

10. Install the exhaust and basically after all this you can start to add all the aftermarket stuff...

 

Do not work backwards by getting the car running and then painting it because they will either overspray on your new engine, wheels, or interior.

 

I don't follow my own advice because i already f@#$ up...lol..If you need help just shoot me a message...

[TStone 10]

Realizing they make specific rims w/ the proper back spacing - My comment was to the package from MustangsUnlimited, the last time I called them on this particular deal I was told it required adapters.

[69stang 11]

well its been painted recently, i got it repainted cause it got hit by a truck and the guy paid for the repaint, i got it repainted "lime metallic" which is nice though i did like the "lime gold" alot better (i think im the only person in the world who likes this color, everyone always wants me to paint it red, but i want it done the way i like it =) ).

 

I dont plan on getting those EXACT rims from Mustangs unlimited, i plan on actually getting a used pair of bullitt 17 x 8 the anthracite ones (sell used off new mustangs really cheap) and putting the pirelli tires since ive heard very good reviews about them (if u guys have heard otherwise or think a different tire combo would make more sense tell me)

 

Interior wise i wasnt planning on going back to stock seats, i want to try to something a little more comfortable, and seeing how my car is a lime green coupe currently a 6 cylinder its not like its winning any car shows any time soon so i dont care that much about oh it has to be perfectly original.

 

As for sounding young, yea I am 19, have had the car since the day i turned 16, i paid every cent that went into the car, i am extremely proud of it, and now i have a decent bit of extra money from a court case (long story), and hearing how i should have a new car, i am making myself one :tt2: .

 

I want to thank everyone that replied any bit of advice etc. is very helpful

[bnickel 10,004]

first off i'd like to say that the rearend from UP is only the 9" pumpkin and does not include the axles or the rearend housing or brakes, just the center section with gears and a "posi" unit. you'll still need the entire rearend and the axles and brakes.

 

personally i would do some more research and figure out exactly how much you have to spend and budget the project from there.

 

i would do suspension and brakes before anything else. then do the engine and trans and rearend, after that wheels and tires and interior stuff.

 

you can buy a nice crate engine for much less than you have accounted for, i wouldn't worry about having one built when you can get a 385hp 351 from ford for about 5 grand complete other than headers and carb, and you'll need a different oil pan than what comes on the crate motor.

 

personally i think you should go with a 5.0 crate motor, keep it carb'd and with a 3.25 rear gear and the 5 speed you should get pretty close to 20mpg and 350hp pretty easily. the crate 5.0's are cheaper as well. you also won't really need a tremec with the 5.0 since you can use a good t5 that will handle the power of the 5.0 and also cost less than a tremec as well.

[Protowrxs 111]

Good points from all and very nice Stang!

 

As you can tell everyone would do things differently.. but still the same.. lol

 

I have to agree with bnickel that a if you must replace the engine a 5.0 would be the best affordable but solid solution.

 

But I keep thinking about how cool that car would be with some 18's, wide tires, some accent work on the trim side, some interior updating and cruising around with that 6 popper in there... at least for a while.

 

Anyhow.. work through it a bit at a time but my opinion matches most others;

 

Front suspension rebuld

Rear suspension/leafs

Brake upgrades

Wheels/Tires

Then work the rest as you want.

 

Edit: It just figured out that it might be a 4 lug car so you'd obviously want to convert to 5 lug before dropping money for wheels.

 

What will get you is all the little extra cost items that you never think of.

 

And welcome to 69Stang.com!!

 

-Stephen

[69stang 11]

I was planning on doing the custom build because i figured the engine builder would be able to help me choose parts i need, and I have heard the difference between fuel injection and carb is incredible in performance, reliability and fuel economy. I haven't seen many fuel injected crate motors, and they give no indication on what kind of mileage you would get (i know its hard but i figure an engine builder can give me approximates).

 

Also, when i was looking up Turbo's i heard they helped fuel economy not hurt it, so thats why i originally said that.

 

The reason i decided to change over to the 8 now is my 6 is kinda beaten, i need a new carb, my clutch is going, and i have the money to do it right now. I have had the car for a little over 3 years, and have always kinda wanted to switch it over due to any civic or other car pulls up next to me and can toast me heh.

 

Thanks again for all the advice guys, i dont mean to be pushy but can you tell me what to look for in a crate motor to get the kind of results i want.

[coz 108]

Ok here's my two cents since I'm also looking at Tremecs and radiators...

 

Why not a TKO 600? I know you would have to replace the disc because it's a 26 sline unit but I would never put in a new tranny w/o a new clutch. pressure plate and TO bearing. Check out Keisler - they sell some nice Tremec packages... Check out Spec for clutches - Stage II+ baby.

 

Also, do some calculations with the gears. 3.27 1st gear with 3.25's in the rear is pretty tough. Something like a 20 ft run at 4k shifts. Personally I'm ok with that but some people would not be....

 

The aluminum radiator - how are you going to mount it? I see no side tabs to attach it to the frame - likewise no side tabs to mount a fan shroud. Not talking from experience - just want to know your ideas so I can copy....

[BAMF69 11]

A 5.0 crate motor is basically what you have under the hood of any fox body mustang except it's missing the fuel injection components. So all you have to do is go to the junk yard and buy the ecu and fuel injection manifold and there you have a fuel injected engine. I don't know where did you read that turbos help fuel economy but i can tell you that they don't, unless you want to run really really lean.

 

Like i said, You will want to get a 5.0 engine because it's more economical than building a used 351 and with a nice set of heads and cam you can make those 350hp you want. Also from what i've heard once you get into cutting the cylinder walls you may have some cooling issues but maybe i'm wrong? just look into that.

 

The aluminum radiator could be mounted with the same saddle mounts you have now or you can fabricate some new mounts.

 

I've had pirelli p-zero nero tires on my mercedes but i must say i like the falken azenis or ziex 512 i have now because of the sidewall protection for the rims. The new 06 mustang wheels will not fit your 69 mustang because they have a high offset around +40 and you will need something like a 1.75" spacer which i do not recommend. I got my bullitt rims for $450 wich is not bad, add tires and it came out to $850. On my 69 mustang since im not going to drive it alot im going with the michelin pilot sports.

[bnickel 10,004]

personally i would be looking at the ford racing crate engines since they are all brand new parts for most of them. pretty much all of the FRP crate motors can be used with fuel injection if you so choose but 20mpg is possible with a carb. i'd stay away from the turbo's for a driver because most of the turbo kits are more for all out performance and i wouldn't consider them reilable enough for a driver, they probably can be if treated right but i'd say stay away for now. honestly a decent carb'd 5.0 and a t5 will provide decent mileage and rock solid reliability for a driver. a 351 would be dependable enough but might not be so great in the mileage arena even with EFI.

 

 

honestly a 5.0, t5 and 3.25 rear gear combois about right for what you want performance and economy wise provided you have the right tune up. it's common for 5.0 mustangs with the t5 to get around 20 or more on the highway and most of them had 3.25 rear gears, so that combo is actually pretty well proven and you have a slightly lighter car although most of the FRP crate motors have slightly more cam than a stock 5.0 mustang.

 

you could probably increase the mileage a bit by changing the heads to something with a smaller combustion chamber provided you don't go over about 10:1 compression by doing so. you could even get a 5.0 short block and use the gt40-P heads which have much more efficient chambers and ports which should help both power and mileage at the same time.

 

if you spend you're money wisely you can have a very nice performing mustang that gets pretty good mileage and still have money left for all the interior stuff you want to do as well as the brakes and suspension too.

 

 

the key is to ask lots of specific questions and do a ton of research on each individual subject.

[69stang 11]

Ok i have been looking at the crate engines for sale, and looked specifically at Ford Racing ... I found the 302's on http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/302smallblock.asp

 

The M-6007-XE3M looks nice, 340 hp/310 ft.lbs. Costs 3,850. It has the mildest cam of the engines listed (which i want since my car is a daily driver). It has the GT-40 Heads that were mentioned, so i figured that to be a plus.

 

Then there is the M-6007-Z50E, which has 360 hp/330ft.lbs a good bit more expensive at 5,495. It has the same cam as the other one which is why i figured i'd ask about it. It doesn't have the same heads as the other one, but other than that the parts are the same.

 

Questions:

Which one of these do you think would better suit my needs?

 

Would the second engine get approximately the same mileage as the first?

 

Is the Horsepower on these engines pretty much the final or will the fuel injection/intake make a big difference?

 

I saw that it does not come with a distributor or Intake, or the fuel injection, how much extra do you think it costs for these parts (the ones you would recommend)?

 

I want to thank everyone for being extremely helpful :thumbup:

[69stang 11]

[/url]

Better Gas Mileage: The Turbonator allows your engine to burn fuel more fully and efficiently, resulting in MPG gains as high as 31%*. It pays for itself in no time.

http://www.turbonator.com/

The B235R engine and installation in the SAAB 9-5 Aero with 310hp which is only available in some markets in Europe. Compared to the regular 9-5 Aero which only has 260hp, this version receives an improved intercooler and other parts which add 50hp while reducing the fuel consumption by 7%.

http://www.answers.com/topic/turbocharger

 

turbocharger system in a passenger car today, allowing VW to deliver an engine on the 2006 Golf GT that improves fuel efficiency by 20 percent.

http://www.automotive.eaton.com/about/pressrel/091405.html

 

 

I may be completely wrong about the turbochargers increasing fuel efficiency its just what i have always heard. Im not trying to say your wrong, just want to know the truth =). Thanks again guys for all the advice.

[bnickel 10,004]

well that turbonator thing is just a device to make the air spin on it's way to the intake manifold, it is not an actual turbo.

 

the other examples you have are of small displacement 4 cylinder engines. the extra boost in MPG on those 4 cylinders comes from the fact that they are not having to work as hard to get the vehicle moving, 4 cylinder engines don't make a lot of torque on their own so turbocharging and supercharging is becoming more commonplace on them. a v8 with a turbocharger might show some mileage gains but they won't be quite as large as what a 4 banger would get because a v8 inherently makes tons more torque than a 4 cylinder so it isn't having to work as hard as the 4 banger. so as i said you may see some mileage gains but you also may not see any.

[BAMF69 11]

Depending on the boost level you will not notice :nono: any mpg change

+/- but at full throttle you will lose mpg because the turbo needs more fuel. You also have to change to a different cam when running a turbo. I've worked on 5.0 mustangs with turbos before but mpg was never an issue since it was race only applications.

if you need more info go to http://www.turbomustangs.com/ :punk:

 

If you are really sure the "turbonator" :shit: will increase your mpg buy it. I know it dosen't work but if you don't belive me i think you should try it out and tell us the results. I would buy it if it came with the bikini model,:cool2: other than that im saving my money.

 

What i would do is to buy a 5.0 crate engine and like i said go to the junk yard and buy a complete fuel injection setup from a 5.0 mustang. You can also go with a standalone fuel injection system but im pretty sure that engine will cost big money since the turbo kit alone is around $2500 depending on the size.

[69stang 11]

I feel bad, i feel like i upset you, i didnt mean to call you out about it, its just what i had always heard. Sorry about that and thanks for giving me a straight answer. From the advice you've given i think its clearly not worth getting the turbo. As for the junker EFI it would worry me since I don't know how to judge how good of condition the parts are in etc.

 

Next question:

Were any of the years of mustang EFI's better than others?

 

How much of a difference is there in power/mileage in automatic verse 5-speed transmissions?

 

Do you think the Aluminum rediators are worth the extra 100 dollars or so?

 

Thanks again

[TStone 10]

You might just want to consider something like this - you strip the parts you need engine/trans...etc, sell the rest

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-Ford-Mustang-5-0-SUPERCHARGED-many-modifications_W0QQitemZ220005033474QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6236QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Protowrxs 111]

Next question:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Were any of the years of mustang EFI's better than others?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

How much of a difference is there in power/mileage in automatic verse 5-speed transmissions?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Do you think the Aluminum rediators are worth the extra 100 dollars or so?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

1) 86 - 93 Mustangs (EDIT: The 89-93's use Mass Air, the 86-88 (except Calif in 88) had speed density)- These use the Mass air flow computer. 94-95 have the newer computer that has problems with engine changes and a lower profile manifold that fits better but performs worse. The earlier models are speed density and do not like motor changes from stock either.

<o:p></o:p>

2) If you are talking C4 auto to 5 speed the manual would win due to overdrive. A C4 or AOD can actually be faster unless you are great at shifting.. BUT a 5 speed is loads more fun to drive. An AOD vs 5speed? Likely the manual will still get better mileage but you have to be able to shift to make it run fast. Hands down a manual is still more fun.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

3) I understand a copper radiator is better since it dissipates heat better BUT an aluminum unit is lighter and looks much better to me.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

On the turbo side like said above you have to consider those high mileage cars are small motors to begin with and are only using the turbo to accelerate as needed. With a 5.0/302 you have inches that have to get fed so a turbo is for going faster, not better mileage. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Personally I believe that a properly setup EFI system will get better mileage and somewhat better performance but nothing dramatic for either. It WILL start easier, run smoother in cold weather, and better overall in most cases BUT it adds complexity that can bite you.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Just my opinions...<o:p></o:p>

-Stephen<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

[Protowrxs 111]

If you are really sure the "turbonator" :shit: will increase your mpg buy it.

 

You got that right... it's "TURD-o-nator" right? - I can't believe the claims still being made for such items. Amazing snake oil in a modern world.

-Stephen

[bnickel 10,004]

actually only the 89-93 (88 in california) have the mass air system. 86-88 have a speed density system.

[BAMF69 11]

I feel bad, i feel like i upset you, i didnt mean to call you out about it, its just what i had always heard. Sorry about that and thanks for giving me a straight answer. From the advice you've given i think its clearly not worth getting the turbo. As for the junker EFI it would worry me since I don't know how to judge how good of condition the parts are in etc.

 

aww sorry buddy, now i feel like an :asshole: i didn't mean to sound like that... I like to use those smilies any time i can lol..:punk:

 

I don't like to sound like i want to always be right because i may be wrong that's why i told you to try it out. I'm not afraid of being wrong because i've met car people who think they know everything. I just tell you what i know, but like i said correct me if im wrong.

 

This will help you out with all the questions you have..http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/06tech/index.html

http://www.crazyformercurys.com/5_0_swap_tech.htm

 

bnickle is right, only 89-93 used the mass air sensor. There are no monving parts in the system so a junker would be fine aslong as you give it a good cleaning and you get a set of new fuel injectors. Mainly you will need all the electronics and can swap out the EFI parts with high performance parts. I'll help you out anyway i can so just send me a message.

[Protowrxs 111]

actually only the 89-93 (88 in california) have the mass air system. 86-88 have a speed density system.

 

Yeah.. that's what I didn't say... lol

 

I think I've done that twice now and considering all the time I spent to make sure I got an 89-93 computer you'd think I could spit it out correctly.

 

Thanks bnickel!

 

-Stephen

[69stang 11]

do you know if the horsepower figures on Ford Racing are Engine or rear wheel, im guessing they were engine since i dont know if they could calculate rear wheel without the rest of the stuff, just wondering.

 

Also yes i was talking about a AOD, and yea i LOVE my stickshift but the AOD is faster, and it seems alot cheaper, which kinda saddens me, i have to decide which i want to do.

 

And i will be looking for a 5.0 88-93 mustang now at junkyards to take the EFI from, anything i need to particularly look for to make sure they are in good shape?

 

Also i will look around for a late 80s mustang that had a crate motor like the one i want put in it so i can take the whole drivetrain.

 

Thanks for all the help guys =).

[69stang 11]

Well turns out i may have my donor car. Another one of the engineers that work with me has a '91 for sale with a 302 with the same cam as the crate engine, aluminum heads, full fuel injection, Tremek 5 speed, 3.55 rear (higher than i wanted but acceptable if i can convert it. "mint condition" grey interior. So I am excited, monday, i will see/test drive the car. 5,000 :001_tt1:

 

Out of this car i'm thinking (corrrect me if im wrong) i can take:

Engine

Trans

Rear?

Brakes?

Rack and Pinoin Steering?

Interior (if i like it)

Fuel injection

 

any thoughts, questions, comments, please tell me.. i am a little excited haha