New fiberglass and photo's are in...............

[Pakrat 1,043]

Hey Boys,

 

Got the new Maier Fiberglass in on Tuesday as promised (finally)!!!!!

 

Just uploaded some general pics in the gallery: http://www.1969stang.com/gallery/Car-and-tech-pics

 

I do not have a lot of experience reviewing fiberglass but from what i can see the quality seems pretty good. The units look pretty nice save for one small ding on an end cap. They were all primered black which usually shows every imperfection, I have yet to see how it all fits though. The connecting rods were installed far nicer than the ones on the Cobranda side scoops.

 

I dropped them off at the body shop on Wednesday and I had one immediate concern which I will review witht he body guy.

 

Let me ask, they didn't change out the tail panel on the Shelby did they? In some of the pics you can see where the underside of the end cap is hollow and it sticks out past the tail panel. Maybe it was just becasue my car was at eye height when I quickly fit it withotu the body guy. The part actually lined up very nicely to the body lines and looks to need little massaging but I am very concerned with how the underside looks on the car, it's almost as if they forgot to put in the last little piece before finishing?!??!?!?!

[RabidPhilosopher 0]

The (stock) end caps on my coupe are hollow on the bottom, but you have to get down on your hands and knees to see it once their mounted on the car.

 

I do have a question though... was your deck lid / end caps supposed to come with that slot running from left to right?

 

This car ( http://www.cardomain.com/ride/582952 / http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?fg=000000&bg=FFFFFF&migration=1ℑ=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/582000-582999/582952_3_full.jpg ) doesn't have that slot going all the way across. Its one smooth surface from end cap to end cap.

[Pakrat 1,043]

Hmmm, not sure how your stock end caps can be hollow on the bottom when mine aren't?!?!?!?!?! They should be the same for the coupe and the vert.

 

The one you show in the picture is different, that is maier's custom piece, the one I got from them is a reproduction of a true Shelby piece and it does have the recess to fit the molded trim. I just don't understand why the stock piece and even their custom piece seems to fit to the stock panel nice and tight and mine leaves a big gap all the way aorund. Maybe these new pics will help to clarify.

 

 

 

 

See what I am saying now? The entire unit sticks out from the car like an inch or more, the side falls short of the old line by at least a half an inch and overlaps on top of the lights by at least an extra 1/4 inch.

 

I know darn well I'm not the first person to do this to a stock car with the stock tail panel so someone has to be able to offer me some advice here?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Anyone?!??!?!?!?!?!??!

 

I really do not want to go to the Shelby panel and Shelby tail lights too, I want to retain the stock look. :(

[Pakrat 1,043]

Here's a perfect example of what I mean, Granted the pics are horrible, but the comp cams car does not have the gapping that I seem to have.

 

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Projects/1969Mustang-2002/

[RabidPhilosopher 0]

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Projects/1969Mustang-2002/

 

(above) Man... they really put the wrench time in on that pony! Looks awesome.

 

I see what you're talking about now. If you were looking along the lines of the left rear fender, does the new quarter extensions stick out?

 

If they do, you can always shave 1/4 inch off the right side of the quarter extension (nearest the trunk), which would move the whole piece 1/4 inch to the right inwards on the tail light panel.

 

Just a thought. I can't see it 3-dimensionally so don't have enough info to comment...

[Protowrxs 111]

Have you set the deck lid on it yet to see where it wants to set?

 

Just curious if there's a lot of trimming to meet back up with the deck lid maybe...

 

I want to do the same to my old coupe as I've always loved the C/S look, glad you get to figure it out first.. ;)

 

-Stephen

[Pakrat 1,043]

Actually the finished side mates up to the fender rather nicely right out of the box. It matches just about all the lines and curves, does not appear to need alot of messaging at all, that's what scares me. I have not had a chance to mate up the trunk lid yet so I do not know how far out it sits yet. It would seem that the thing to do is trim off the back side to get it closer to the body but then it lileky won't match all the contours still since they all taper in and out at angles. Plus you can see on the side angle where the bolts stick out that the flange they are in mates right up to the surface like a stopper so they would have to be trimmed back too.

 

I think the only solution will be too add glass to it to fill in the spaces to the body, not crazy about that though.

[RabidPhilosopher 0]

Is it possible that the one is made for non-shelby tail light panel coupes / converts, and the other made for shelby tail light panel coupes / converts ?

 

I was talking to a friend today about this, because he has a california special, and I was considering getting the same extension / trunk package that you did from Maier.

 

He seems to think that the shelby / california special tail light panel is the same size as a regular coupe / convert tail light panel, but since they have to accommodate the two large tail light bezel, the quarter extensions aren't as thick as the quarter extensions on a coupe; which would explain the gap you have.

 

If you tried to put the stock (non-shelby) type quarter extension on a shelby, something tells me the non-shelby extensions would be too wide from left to right, and would actually over lap the tail light bezels.

 

His cars in the shop, so we couldn't measure his panel vs my panel to see if that was the case.

 

Have you spoken with Maier about the problems you're encountering? If so, what did they say?

[70vert 17]

I feel for you Pak, it must be frustrating. It sounds like you should do some research and find someone who has done it, or maybe Maier (if you're still on speaking terms :roll: ) could explain what they have done or what needs to be done. I don't know if Comp Cams would bother returning emails, but might be worth a try.

 

It seems like the options are:

 

1. Search around for someone who has done it online and ask them

 

2. Learn a little about fiberglass and cut and mold them to the panels, but measure 3 times, cut once . . .

 

seeing the Reenmachine convertible with its' rear spoiler REALLY makes me jealous. I still feel like the body parts are easier to get for the earlier models . . .

[RabidPhilosopher 0]

I still feel like the body parts are easier to get for the earlier models . . .

 

And cheaper too... i don't know how many times that i'd see packages for just about every "typical rust" replacement panel for 64 - 65 coupes, ect; or interior packages including everything from new seat upholstery to matching door panels... All Dirt Cheap...

 

but for 69 to 70 models?.... "Sorry, there just isn't a demand right now for those parts, and until there is, manufacturers won't cut costs so we can offer bulk packages" ...

 

makes me wanna kick a 65 mustang when i see one...

[RabidPhilosopher 0]

I tried finding a 69 / 70 with california special lights and panel, but no dice (I'm sure someone has pictures of one out there because I've seen 69 mustangs with california special lights before). When I was comparing a 68 california special : http://www.californiaspecial.com/photogallery/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=album19&id=1118624648_1 and a 1968 coupe : http://www.jharbour.com/red68/default.aspx I don't see much of a difference in the size from left to right on the rear quarter extensions.

 

The panel, however, is entirely different. Maybe it only looks the same relative to the panel?

 

Not sure this helps... but thought i'd throw it your way...

[Pakrat 1,043]

Well maier only makes the parts, they do not fit them to a car and this piece comes out of a mold made off of an original Shelby piece so it only stands to reason that it is designed to fit a Shelby including the tail panel that is on it. Their own design is made to fit a stock mustang so I am sure that the fit is different on them, it is a combination of a stock unit and a shelby combined. I do not believe anyone specifically makes a Shelby replica designed to fit a stock panel, heck we are lucky that there is even two choices out there, the shelby piece used to be the only choice.

 

I have never seen a 69' with a California Special anything but the CS had the same T-bird set up as the Shelby's did from 68 - 70 so maybe that is what you are thinking of. All three years have a curved tail panel which is why it needs to be changed out for the Shelby lights.

 

My whole question really is what the those who have it on a stock panel did to it if anything? I do know the differences between stock and Shelby I just did not realize bringing the two worlds together was so darn difficult. How the heck am I going to hunt down someone online who has done it if I can't even find them on an online forum. :x Particularly one that caters to this model?

 

Comp Cams was helpful in where to source it, so maybe they'll throw me a bone on the install?!!??!?!

[Pakrat 1,043]

Well, for anyone who wants to go to school on this and learn something, here's a lesson for you, modifying Shelby parts to blend in with stock Mustang parts is neither easy, fun or satisfying even when it's all done. I will have some updated pics on this by the end of the week but let me just say it's a huge PITA!

 

I'm not talking about all the building and trimming and twisting these pieces are taking to line up either, I was well warned and all of it is true. Fiberglass parts fit like shit right out of the box no matter how good they look! I am talking about blending the two worlds and retaining the stock tail panel and lights with the Shelby decklid and end cap, it's taking forever and unless it looks 100 times better on the ground then it does in the air, I have a feeling that I am going to be less than happy at the end of the day. :censored: The craftsmanship is good, don't get me wrong. The body guys are good given what they have to work around, but because the Shelby panel is flat and sticks out further than the stock curved one right now, it looks very weird just hanging out there all by it's lonesome. As I look closer at the comp cams car I guess it's not all that different and when painted it looks OK so I can only hope the same will be for my car, I'm continuing as planned anyway, thats for sure but I get this nagging feeling that by next year I may be back at it either now adding the Shelby tail panel and lights to correct the look or buying Maiers own coupe kit like on Steve Kleva's car which I can now see was probably made to avoid all of this to begin with and in retrospect would be the way I would recommend anyone else go in the future unless they are really bent on the exact vintage Shelby styling like I was. We'll see but I can't help feeling right now like I made a big and none to cheap mistake.

[Armond 10]

The 69/70 shelby rear body fiberglass comes back and fills that cap you have there on your end caps. I guess from what I read, you were not planning on the shelby tail light panel and lights. I would take some fiberglass and build up that area and form it to the concave rear body panel. A good body man/Vette guy with any experience should be able to do this easily. I would call maier and tell them your need and ask them exactly what brand and resin they used to make the end cap/glass parts. If it is the regular polyester resin and you used smc resin, they don't react the same in the sun and you will find that things will swell and deform from just the sun if the same is not used. Some resins are high temp resistance and some will move like the ocean once heated. I have been doing glass work since the 70's and have learned the hard way. Good luck!

[Pakrat 1,043]

Oh no, they are creating more side to blend in with the curved stock panel and that is coming out fine, what I am not crazy about so far though is how far the whole piece appears to stick out against the curved panel in comparison to with the correct Shelby straight panel.

[BAMF69 11]

I think I have a way to fix it?...I don't have experiance since the 70s but i've been using what i can since i don't have alot of funds so i need to be creative. i'll share a technique i would use on these. You need to go to your local flower shop and get some of that green foam they use for flowers. Get the really fine one not the other crapy one. You can use that to fill in the part that you need to fill in and shape it to your tail light panel. After you get it looking good use epoxy to glue it to the back of the part. Lay a thin layer of body filler on the foam and mix a batch of resin so you can lay some fiberglass on top and make it look nice and like it fits. You either have to fill in the gap or get another set. By the way how much was it for everything?

 

It looks like this and you can glue two togheter to make them longer

[Pakrat 1,043]

Thanks for the tip, good idea but we are all set on how to fab it, again, that is not the issue at all. Using a copy cat and the original piece for a template worked fine, the space has already been filled.

 

The whole problem I have is visual only, there is not a technical problem. Somehow I don't seem to be doing a very good job explaining that though. I'll try to take some pictures today and see if that helps.

[BAMF69 11]

Yeah i know what you mean. How do you fill that big gap without looking too wierd. It would help if you mount the deck lid and take pictures so whe can see the problem your facing.

[MDinDestin 14]

Thanks for the tip, good idea but we are all set on how to fab it, again, that is not the issue at all. Using a copy cat and the original piece for a template worked fine, the space has already been filled.

 

The whole problem I have is visual only, there is not a technical problem. Somehow I don't seem to be doing a very good job explaining that though. I'll try to take some pictures today and see if that helps.

 

The shelby tail light panel is probably cheaper in the long run especially if you don't use the shelby exhaust tips.

['69Mach1 24]

The shelby tail light panel is probably cheaper in the long run especially if you don't use the shelby exhaust tips.

 

It would probably cut down fitting time also ,while it is a very good idea ,ever try to work with molding fiberglass? I know with the time involved ,I won't do it again. Also the Shelby tail panel with sequential taillamps would look really cool.You could try a photoshop of your car if unsure how it would look.

[BAMF69 11]

or you can use a 70s tail light panel? i think it's the same since it's flat???

[MDinDestin 14]

Check out the current edition of Mustangs and Fords on page 63. There's a 67 or 68 with a shelby lid with the stock tail light panel. It looks like this guy had to add quite a bit of fiberglass to fill in the gap.

 

It looks fine though.

[MDinDestin 14]

Actually the finished side mates up to the fender rather nicely right out of the box. It matches just about all the lines and curves, does not appear to need alot of messaging at all, that's what scares me. I have not had a chance to mate up the trunk lid yet so I do not know how far out it sits yet. It would seem that the thing to do is trim off the back side to get it closer to the body but then it lileky won't match all the contours still since they all taper in and out at angles. Plus you can see on the side angle where the bolts stick out that the flange they are in mates right up to the surface like a stopper so they would have to be trimmed back too.

 

I think the only solution will be too add glass to it to fill in the spaces to the body, not crazy about that though.

 

I'm sure you've seen this low quality shot of the PHR stang. They must have filled in the gap like you're proposing. It looks great.

[Pakrat 1,043]

Oh sure, I have used the Comp Cams car as a reference for some time now, I even spoke to them and they told me they had to radically redesign the end caps to work. I can tell you right now that is no exageration, it is not as simple as adding more material to the inside vertical wall to meet up with the curved stock panel as the angle of the taper is all wrong, if you do it that way it runs smack into the opening for the tail light. Here is an updated pic for anyone who is curious. Basically the entire inside section had to be chopped out so we could make it angle less drastically. It needs a little more sanding and shaping but I think in the end it's worth it as I just love the look in comparison.

 

There is a damn good reason you usually do not see anyone use the Shelby parts with the stock panel though, I can tell you right now that 2 weeks ago I was way under budget and now I'll be lucky if the insurance covers everything at the end of the day. There is at least 40-50 man hours into massaging all the glass and gapping everything perfectly, at $70 an hour you do the math.:death:

 

If you want to compare there are plenty of photos in my gallery showing what the cap looked like mated to the stock panel right out of the box. If I had it to do again I might change it just a tad from how we ended up but we did not have the foresight until we went thru it and to tear it apart and redo it again would be way cost prohibitive at this stage so it is what it is now. I'm happy but I would have prefered to spend that extra cash on a rack.

[TStone 10]

looks good