Comments on plans for build

[69stang 11]

B in your opinion which would you go with?

 

I know 750 is "too much" but since it is running off the primaries mainly not sure if it will be too big of a problem unless it floods the engine or something at WOT. You read the stuff in this thread about the 600 or 650 holley.

[6T9Mach1 12]

bnickel, I'll take your word about the Q-jets as I have limited knowledge about them.

[bnickel 10,004]

B in your opinion which would you go with?

 

I know 750 is "too much" but since it is running off the primaries mainly not sure if it will be too big of a problem unless it floods the engine or something at WOT. You read the stuff in this thread about the 600 or 650 holley.

 

 

like i said as long as the QJ is setup properly it will work just fine and you'll get pretty decent mileage with it.

 

if it were me though, i'd look for one of the 4011 carbs in 650 with vacuum secondaries. they come up on ebay pretty regularly but they are not near as common as a QJ so if you already have the QJ go with it, if you have some time and are patient you should be able to find a pretty good deal on a 4011 holley. the 4011 is kind of an oddball carb and wasn't very popular. i guess that was really more because of it's looks than anything because the guys who do run them swear by them.

[bnickel 10,004]

you'd better snap this one up quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Aluminum-Dual-Feed-650-Carburator-2302-NR_W0QQitemZ300220499862QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33550QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[69stang 11]

That one will work out?

 

I will buy as soon as i read a response from you. How hard to go to electric choke? Water passages plugged ok etc? why vacuuum over mechanical

 

any problems i'd have?

 

thank you sooo much btw for all the help.

[bnickel 10,004]

yeah i missed the part about the water injection holes before i posted that. a competent welder should be able to fix that pretty easily since that carb is actually aluminum not cast zinc like most holley's IIRC. electric choke kits for holleys are about 50 bucks so if you want an electric choke i'd keep looking for another one that has electric choke that you can get for under a hundred bucks.

 

for a motor with an automatic or a mild build-up street/strip car with a manual trans the vacuum secondary carbs are better because they won't bog like a mechanical secondary carb would. a vacuum secondary carb will only only the back barrels when the vacuum gets to a certain level ans opens the back barrels, this is much better for street car with a mild motor and auto or manual trans. if you had a wicked motor and a manual trans you could get by with the mechanical or even an auto with a really high stall convertor too.

[69stang 11]

Ok Vacuum secondaries sound better than, is the throttle response a little slower on them?

 

My car is a manual, but not anything too crazy.

 

I can't thank you enough for all the help with not only advice but finding things on ebay etc.

[69stang 11]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/289-302-Ford-SB-Holley-Street-Dominator-Intake_W0QQitemZ330233870407QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330233870407&

A Holley Street Dominator. Looks different than the ones I saw before, looks a little taller plus has a bar in the middle, is this a dual plane?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Street-Dominator-Aluminum-Intake-Manifold-Ford_W0QQitemZ320150661390QQcmdZViewItem

 

Thats another one for sale, for comparison.

[bnickel 10,004]

they are both single plane intakes but the one has a divided plenum. kind of a wierd design really

[bnickel 10,004]

with your engine build i wouldn't run a single plane, you really need a dual plane especially if you're trying to maximize mileage, the reason being is that a dual plane will make more low end torque which is what gets the car moving, more torque equates to more mileage. like i said earlier, one if the best intakes you can get for a small ford is the old cobra style, or ford C90X intake like this one, which BTW is a pretty good deal for this intake

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-289-302-shelby-cobra-intake_W0QQitemZ130220454419QQihZ003QQcategoryZ36474QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

use this intake with an autolite 4100 and you'll have a really nice combo that will get really good mileage but the 4100 will give up a little absolute HP over a holley, e'brock or QJ carb. the choice is yours i'm just trying to give you some options

 

 

edit: here is the newer Ford racing version of that same intake

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/289-302-FORD-RACING-DUAL-PLANE-INTAKE-HIGH-PERFORMANCE_W0QQitemZ4542567596QQihZ014QQcategoryZ34202QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

 

 

i kinda like the original C90x intake personally and i have the 351w version for the cougar myself.

[6T9Mach1 12]

A Holley Street Dominator utilizes a low-rise, small runner port size design. It limits the mass of air flowing through the runners while increasing the speed of the airflow. Street Dominators usually start pulling around 2700-2800 rpms and can run a little over 6000 rpms. They have a narrow band they work well in compared to other intakes.

 

The best manifolds you can get for a street sbf are the Edelbrock Performer RPM & Weiand Stealth high rise, dual plane intakes, but then we are back to the whole square bore/spread bore thing as they are only squarebore intakes. My advice is that you will have a much better functioning combo if you go with one of those two intake I mentioned and run a square bore carb like an Edelbrock or Holley. I understand the wanting to use a specific type of carb, but a spreadbore drastically limits what you can do as you are finding out. Good luck on your build :)

[69stang 11]

Okay seems like the spread bore is all but out of the running. My last hope

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=OFY%2D6010DP&autoview=sku

 

It is a "dual port"?, seems like an interesting concept but seeing how I haven't heard/read about it, I am guessing it wasn't a great success. If this doesn't work, I guess i'll give up on the spread bore idea.

 

If those don't work well, what can you do with the Edelbrock Power Package (367 hp/340 tq) to get better mileage, or a little better top end hp in trade for tq. (I have a T5 so trading some torque for gas mileage or hp would be fine with me)

[69stang 11]

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=800&sb=2

 

What does everyone think of that cam? Remember Daily Driver Gas mileage in mind. (with dual plane intake, afr heads, hooker super comp headers, 600 cfm carb)

[bnickel 10,004]

Okay seems like the spread bore is all but out of the running. My last hope

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=OFY%2D6010DP&autoview=sku

 

It is a "dual port"?, seems like an interesting concept but seeing how I haven't heard/read about it, I am guessing it wasn't a great success. If this doesn't work, I guess i'll give up on the spread bore idea.

 

If those don't work well, what can you do with the Edelbrock Power Package (367 hp/340 tq) to get better mileage, or a little better top end hp in trade for tq. (I have a T5 so trading some torque for gas mileage or hp would be fine with me)

 

 

that is the intake i would use if you're dead set on the spread bore, it'll give you the best compromise of all worlds, low end torque, top end power and you'll get the benefits of running the spreadbore carb....as long as you can keep your foot out of it. the cam however is going to kill that completely, that will be a really lumpy cam in a 302 or even a stroker. if you really want mileage you need a lot smaller cam that.

[cphsonic 11]

Second that (cam). Thats approx what I use on a built 351W with 750 Holley.

[6T9Mach1 12]

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=800&sb=2

 

What does everyone think of that cam? Remember Daily Driver Gas mileage in mind. (with dual plane intake, afr heads, hooker super comp headers, 600 cfm carb)

 

That is the cam that is sitting in my 351w right now. Great all around cam!

[69stang 11]

"Does not have rear water crossover provision"

[69stang 11]

has anyone used a intake without the rear crossover provision? Did you run into any problems?

[6T9Mach1 12]

There are lots of intakes out there that have no rear crossover; you will be fine without.

[69stang 11]

Okay I never heard of that before. Does it hurt cooling and just mean I should definitely get an aluminum radiator?

 

I am new to a lot of this, and really want to make sure everything is set up well to work with eachother before throwing a ton of money at it and just screwing myself.

 

Thank you so much again for all the help, I'm in completely new territory haha.

[6T9Mach1 12]

It shouldnt hurt your cooling at all; I've actually heard of guys who plug the rear crossover with concrete and found some hp gains (dont know why?). You were looking for 300 hp at the wheels which means you will be in the 400hp range at the flywheel so an improved cooling system would be a plus. NPD sells a 4-core copper radiator with extra cooling that would work well for you and there are plenty of cheap Chinese aluminum radiators on ebay...I just bought one and it seems to be a nice piece for the money. Griffin sells aluminum radiators that are formed to look like the OEM radiator only they are made of aluminum. These are pricey at $500-$600.

[69stang 11]

Yea I plan on getting an aluminum radiator, was just wondering if there was any kind of negative aspect of getting an intake with no rear crossover.

 

The 300 at the wheels is kinda my dream, I am pretty sure I am not going to make that. I am thinking in the end I will get ~350 fwhp, and just be good all around engine. (Not a torque or hp monster, but pretty good on gas) I figure that our cars are decently light, they don't need THAT much.

[bnickel 10,004]

you can also use some braided hose and drill/tap the intake for a rear crossover if you are worried about it. i have an E'brock performer intake on my 351w and it's never had any heating problems because of it.

[69stang 11]

bnickel I found a ton of 650 cfm spreadbores made by Holley, none of them were the 4011 tho. Is the 4011 a pre-emissions carb? Is it rare?

[bnickel 10,004]

well i wouldn't call it rare but it's not very plentiful either. it's basically a universal carb like any other holley they did have some that were emissions carbs but most weren't. it's really a re-designed/improved version of the old autolite 4100 which was designed and built for ford by holley, after ford quit using the 4100 holley redesigned it in the 80's with some improvements like dual feed inlets, different power valves and accelerator pumps, some were mechanical secondary some were vacuum secondary and of course they also added the spread bore version as well.

 

did you find an intake yet?