Intro and a bunch of questions...

[Static_LV 10]

Hi all,

 

I am a new member here and a fairly new to classic mustangs althought not particularly new to car modding. I am looking for a TON of info on just about every aspect of classic mustang performance, restoration, tuning, and a host of other topics and it looks like this is the place to find it.

 

About a year ago, I acquired a 1969 Mustang coupe (notch back?) that was modified pretty extensively by at least 2 previous owners. Since then, I have rebuilt the C4 transmission with a shift kit (serious PITA), solved some vacuum issues, and fixed a lot of wiring issues. At this point it is very drivable and seems to be about as solid as one can expect from a 35 year old car. This to my mind is the bulk of the problem. Don't get me wrong, I love classic cars, but I also love modern engineering and many core automotive systems have come a long way since 1969.

 

At this point, I have a dilemma. On the one hand, I have a classic muscle car which with minor tweaks is set up as a classic muscle car. On the other hand what I want is what I think is referred to as a restomod? At any rate, in order to bring this car up to more modern specs several things really need to be done.

 

1. Steering - The stock steering on this car quite frankly blows. I am unsure if this is due to the slushbox being worn or if it is just designed to be lousy. (Comparison for this is a 2003 SVT Focus). What viable options are there as far as R&P systems?

 

2. Suspension - Again, there have been huge advancements in this area and I am curious as to the available options that will provide modern geometries and performance without permanently damaging this classic. Bolt on is better than weld on which is still better than cutting and fabricating in this endeavor.

 

3. Brakes - It appears that as part of the suspension mods that a conversion to modern disc brakes is a fairly minimal task and I am interested in major "gotchas" associated with this.

 

4. Engine - Currently this car has a 302 w/ quite a few mods. This engine runs well, but to be honest, I am not good with carbs and would much prefer EFI. The alternative is a '69 351W block that came with the car that I have been debating building with modern EFI and associated ECU equipment. I am a lot more comfortable with the EFI technology from a tuning perspective.

 

5. Driveline - Currently I have a C4 w/ what I think is a stage 1 shift kit in it. If I never have to work on that thing again it will be too damn soon. I would like to be able to upgrade this to a modern transmission that can handle somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 hp and equal torque.

 

6. Subframe - Yeah, this car could stand to be a lot stiffer particularly to handle any more power. Along with this, for SOLO II a cage is probably not the worst idea I have ever heard. Are there good options / fabricators for this who specialize in working on Mustangs?

 

Well at risk of sounding long winded...oops, too late...thanks for the information already posted and more that I am certain will be forthcoming.

 

-Static

 

p.s. this is Veronica, she is a bitchy red-head who likes attention and expensive presents...

[Static_LV 10]

Hi all,

 

I am a new member here and a fairly new to classic mustangs althought not particularly new to car modding. I am looking for a TON of info on just about every aspect of classic mustang performance, restoration, tuning, and a host of other topics and it looks like this is the place to find it.

 

About a year ago, I acquired a 1969 Mustang coupe (notch back?) that was modified pretty extensively by at least 2 previous owners. Since then, I have rebuilt the C4 transmission with a shift kit (serious PITA), solved some vacuum issues, and fixed a lot of wiring issues. At this point it is very drivable and seems to be about as solid as one can expect from a 35 year old car. This to my mind is the bulk of the problem. Don't get me wrong, I love classic cars, but I also love modern engineering and many core automotive systems have come a long way since 1969.

 

At this point, I have a dilemma. On the one hand, I have a classic muscle car which with minor tweaks is set up as a classic muscle car. On the other hand what I want is what I think is referred to as a restomod? At any rate, in order to bring this car up to more modern specs several things really need to be done.

 

1. Steering - The stock steering on this car quite frankly blows. I am unsure if this is due to the slushbox being worn or if it is just designed to be lousy. (Comparison for this is a 2003 SVT Focus). What viable options are there as far as R&P systems?

 

2. Suspension - Again, there have been huge advancements in this area and I am curious as to the available options that will provide modern geometries and performance without permanently damaging this classic. Bolt on is better than weld on which is still better than cutting and fabricating in this endeavor.

 

3. Brakes - It appears that as part of the suspension mods that a conversion to modern disc brakes is a fairly minimal task and I am interested in major "gotchas" associated with this.

 

4. Engine - Currently this car has a 302 w/ quite a few mods. This engine runs well, but to be honest, I am not good with carbs and would much prefer EFI. The alternative is a '69 351W block that came with the car that I have been debating building with modern EFI and associated ECU equipment. I am a lot more comfortable with the EFI technology from a tuning perspective.

 

5. Driveline - Currently I have a C4 w/ what I think is a stage 1 shift kit in it. If I never have to work on that thing again it will be too damn soon. I would like to be able to upgrade this to a modern transmission that can handle somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 hp and equal torque.

 

6. Subframe - Yeah, this car could stand to be a lot stiffer particularly to handle any more power. Along with this, for SOLO II a cage is probably not the worst idea I have ever heard. Are there good options / fabricators for this who specialize in working on Mustangs?

 

Well at risk of sounding long winded...oops, too late...thanks for the information already posted and more that I am certain will be forthcoming.

 

-Static

 

p.s. this is Veronica, she is a bitchy red-head who likes attention and expensive presents...

[bnickel 10,004]

there are literally tons of options for what you want. from mild to wild and cheap to expensive as hell. tell us more about how you want to use the car and what you have in mind budget wise and we can provide more specific answers to your questions. for instance do you want the car to be a daily driver or a weekend brawler? lot's of SoloII competetion or just once or twice a year? do you want to keep your current 15" wheels (they look like 15's) or do you want a 17" wheel or even bigger? more show than go or more go and not much show?

 

here a couple of places to get you started on the suspesion and steering

 

www.totalcontrolproducts.com

 

www.randallsrack.com

 

www.globalwest.net

 

www.opentrackerracingproducts.com

 

http://drgas.com/store/home.php?cat=22

[bnickel 10,004]

there are literally tons of options for what you want. from mild to wild and cheap to expensive as hell. tell us more about how you want to use the car and what you have in mind budget wise and we can provide more specific answers to your questions. for instance do you want the car to be a daily driver or a weekend brawler? lot's of SoloII competetion or just once or twice a year? do you want to keep your current 15" wheels (they look like 15's) or do you want a 17" wheel or even bigger? more show than go or more go and not much show?

 

here a couple of places to get you started on the suspesion and steering

 

www.totalcontrolproducts.com

 

www.randallsrack.com

 

www.globalwest.net

 

www.opentrackerracingproducts.com

 

http://drgas.com/store/home.php?cat=22

[bnickel 10,004]

oh and a couple more

 

 

www.fays2.net

 

 

www.evolutionmsport.com

[bnickel 10,004]

oh and a couple more

 

 

www.fays2.net

 

 

www.evolutionmsport.com

[Static_LV 10]

Thanks much for the linkage. That gives me a lot to look at and a lot of very cool things to think about.

 

Use for this car would definitely not be a daily driver, more of a weekend racer that is streetable enough and reliable enough to take the odd trip to a car show without having to trailer her. SOLO II I think would be fun in that car but it is not a primary objective. The main things are modernizing a lot of the foundations for safety, reliability, and performance.

 

As far as budget goes, it is not unlimited, but I don't mind throwing money at doing something right. The trick there is to plan the whole thing and then to start shopping for deals on the stuff I'm going to need. So, for right now, I am in the planning stage. After that will come the purchasing stage and then comes the fun part :)

 

I actually like the look of the 15's on that car and I like the current stance of it (although it could stand to be a couple inches lower) so I probably won't swap out to 17's unless I gain something really significant in the exchange. Larger rotors is a possible advantage there that I would consider, but I would like to do some braking calculations to see how much of a difference it would make.

 

Overall, I want to have about 500hp in this car give or take. I want to have modern steering, braking, and an adjustable suspension. The frame needs to be considerably stiffer. It could really use new seats and better gauges (although the original dash cluster that is in there actually works I have some thoughts for a really cool modern instrument panel).

 

Externally, some sort of air-dam would be useful on the front end to eliminate the higher speed float the car has. I have been looking at some of the body kit stuff over at mustangdepot.com for things like that.

 

Speaking of body kits and the like, some of the panels on the car are not right, I have a '70 or '71 trunk lid and I am not sure where the hood came from but it doesn't fit right. Those need to be replaced the fenders need to be gapped properly. The red paint is on over white paint and whoever did the job apparently didn't know what the hell they were doing so all of that will have to be stripped before a good paintjob is done.

 

At any rate, I expect that everything can be done over the next 2-3 years for $20-30k as a ballpark.

[Static_LV 10]

Thanks much for the linkage. That gives me a lot to look at and a lot of very cool things to think about.

 

Use for this car would definitely not be a daily driver, more of a weekend racer that is streetable enough and reliable enough to take the odd trip to a car show without having to trailer her. SOLO II I think would be fun in that car but it is not a primary objective. The main things are modernizing a lot of the foundations for safety, reliability, and performance.

 

As far as budget goes, it is not unlimited, but I don't mind throwing money at doing something right. The trick there is to plan the whole thing and then to start shopping for deals on the stuff I'm going to need. So, for right now, I am in the planning stage. After that will come the purchasing stage and then comes the fun part :)

 

I actually like the look of the 15's on that car and I like the current stance of it (although it could stand to be a couple inches lower) so I probably won't swap out to 17's unless I gain something really significant in the exchange. Larger rotors is a possible advantage there that I would consider, but I would like to do some braking calculations to see how much of a difference it would make.

 

Overall, I want to have about 500hp in this car give or take. I want to have modern steering, braking, and an adjustable suspension. The frame needs to be considerably stiffer. It could really use new seats and better gauges (although the original dash cluster that is in there actually works I have some thoughts for a really cool modern instrument panel).

 

Externally, some sort of air-dam would be useful on the front end to eliminate the higher speed float the car has. I have been looking at some of the body kit stuff over at mustangdepot.com for things like that.

 

Speaking of body kits and the like, some of the panels on the car are not right, I have a '70 or '71 trunk lid and I am not sure where the hood came from but it doesn't fit right. Those need to be replaced the fenders need to be gapped properly. The red paint is on over white paint and whoever did the job apparently didn't know what the hell they were doing so all of that will have to be stripped before a good paintjob is done.

 

At any rate, I expect that everything can be done over the next 2-3 years for $20-30k as a ballpark.

[Protowrxs 111]

Looks like a good project. As a looonnngg time Coupe owner it's always nice to see one getting attention.

 

There are lots of standard upgrade/restomod items likely listed in all those links. Usually the first item of business is a complete run down of body and chassis rust. Once any frame rail, torque box, rocker, and other major rust is patched/cleaned up then you're good to build on.

 

Obvious other items are safety related such as upgrading to front or four wheel disc with one of the various options available and either rebuilding the front end or looking at other replacement solutions. Rebuilding using items such as OpenTracker parts is a great option or if the budget allows the pricey tubular/coilover solutions up front. There are Mustang II options as well.

 

I can't think of any major gotchas in the brake area besides a workable solution for an emergency brake when going with disc out back. There are brackets available that a lot of the guys here run to use big rotors up front if desired.

 

Sub frame connectors should be a must to link up the unibody. Personally I like the Global West tubulars but there are several other options out there from $80 or so to $300+.

 

Rear end wise I'd make sure you have a 9" if not already since an 8" isn't going to handle the power you want to make and of course a posi is a must at that point. To me, unless you're going to run a good size slick a 28 spline axle will live... I've run both 31 and 28 on a 10" slick without problems but it was only a mid 12 second car so I guess I didn't push it that hard. You can use a late model 8.8" I guess but a 9" it more popular for the vintage Stangs.

 

I like EFI and I like what the 86-93 EFI setups look like so that is the direction I am going at least. You can do the same with a 351. For that much HP you might need to look at stroking a 351 though and will need an aftermarket EFI intake if youre going with the 86-93 layout. Of course there are EFI solutions that keep the vintage carb look that are available as well.

 

Steering options are available as well from manual setups using a roller idler arm and upgraded box to manual racks and on to power racks.

 

It all adds up real fast though so having a plan does really help.. although I'd bet the plan changes more than you think through the process. Mine has for sure. :)

 

Of course the main thing is to enjoy the build, take lots of pics and POST THEM HERE!

 

How's that for long winded.. and likely everything you've already heard. :sleeping:

 

-Stephen

[Protowrxs 111]

Looks like a good project. As a looonnngg time Coupe owner it's always nice to see one getting attention.

 

There are lots of standard upgrade/restomod items likely listed in all those links. Usually the first item of business is a complete run down of body and chassis rust. Once any frame rail, torque box, rocker, and other major rust is patched/cleaned up then you're good to build on.

 

Obvious other items are safety related such as upgrading to front or four wheel disc with one of the various options available and either rebuilding the front end or looking at other replacement solutions. Rebuilding using items such as OpenTracker parts is a great option or if the budget allows the pricey tubular/coilover solutions up front. There are Mustang II options as well.

 

I can't think of any major gotchas in the brake area besides a workable solution for an emergency brake when going with disc out back. There are brackets available that a lot of the guys here run to use big rotors up front if desired.

 

Sub frame connectors should be a must to link up the unibody. Personally I like the Global West tubulars but there are several other options out there from $80 or so to $300+.

 

Rear end wise I'd make sure you have a 9" if not already since an 8" isn't going to handle the power you want to make and of course a posi is a must at that point. To me, unless you're going to run a good size slick a 28 spline axle will live... I've run both 31 and 28 on a 10" slick without problems but it was only a mid 12 second car so I guess I didn't push it that hard. You can use a late model 8.8" I guess but a 9" it more popular for the vintage Stangs.

 

I like EFI and I like what the 86-93 EFI setups look like so that is the direction I am going at least. You can do the same with a 351. For that much HP you might need to look at stroking a 351 though and will need an aftermarket EFI intake if youre going with the 86-93 layout. Of course there are EFI solutions that keep the vintage carb look that are available as well.

 

Steering options are available as well from manual setups using a roller idler arm and upgraded box to manual racks and on to power racks.

 

It all adds up real fast though so having a plan does really help.. although I'd bet the plan changes more than you think through the process. Mine has for sure. :)

 

Of course the main thing is to enjoy the build, take lots of pics and POST THEM HERE!

 

How's that for long winded.. and likely everything you've already heard. :sleeping:

 

-Stephen

[Pakrat 1,043]

Welcome to the club and good luck. Unless you are doing most of the work yourself don't expect that bidget to get you all you desire, you'd be surprised just how fast and easy it is to blow thru cash, especially if you not only have a plan first but that you stick to it as well. Since you have a 302 in it and a 351 on the side have you verified the VIN to make sure you know exactly what you are starting with? It's not impossible that it began life as 200 and was never properly refitted before becoming a V8.

 

Defintely start from the basic begining. You need to strip the entire car down and see what needs to be done before you can get to what you want done. Things like bad cowls, rusted floors and battery aprons, frame straightening if needed, the basics to get you a good piece of cake, the icing will come later.

[Pakrat 1,043]

Welcome to the club and good luck. Unless you are doing most of the work yourself don't expect that bidget to get you all you desire, you'd be surprised just how fast and easy it is to blow thru cash, especially if you not only have a plan first but that you stick to it as well. Since you have a 302 in it and a 351 on the side have you verified the VIN to make sure you know exactly what you are starting with? It's not impossible that it began life as 200 and was never properly refitted before becoming a V8.

 

Defintely start from the basic begining. You need to strip the entire car down and see what needs to be done before you can get to what you want done. Things like bad cowls, rusted floors and battery aprons, frame straightening if needed, the basics to get you a good piece of cake, the icing will come later.

[bnickel 10,004]

yeah, a paint job alone can eat up a very big chunk of that budget, especially if you want to start adding different body parts. it's not unheard of for a paint job like you are wanting to run 10-15k pretty easily. i would suggest taking a class in autobody at night school or something so you can do as much of it as possible yourself.

[bnickel 10,004]

yeah, a paint job alone can eat up a very big chunk of that budget, especially if you want to start adding different body parts. it's not unheard of for a paint job like you are wanting to run 10-15k pretty easily. i would suggest taking a class in autobody at night school or something so you can do as much of it as possible yourself.

[robbiedog 0]

I've done most of what you're considering on your car, though mine is a fastback. Here's a link to the photos taken during the mod and a list of what I've done......I'd do it all again, but I'd probably think about it a little more!

http://www.1969stang.com/gallery/6970various?page=3

click on the middle one at the top, the 302 stroker restomod

[robbiedog 0]

I've done most of what you're considering on your car, though mine is a fastback. Here's a link to the photos taken during the mod and a list of what I've done......I'd do it all again, but I'd probably think about it a little more!

http://www.1969stang.com/gallery/6970various?page=3

click on the middle one at the top, the 302 stroker restomod

[Static_LV 10]

I will be doing about 95% of the work on this myself and I am fairly accomplished at body work, mechanical work, electical, and tuning. Things I will have to farm out will be things like frame straightening if needed and if I decide to build that 351, I will get a machine shop involved before I get started.

 

Robbie, what Baer's do you have on that thing and what is your take on the overall stopping? Also, do you have any suspension geometry issues under heavy braking. It looks like you have the factory supension in there and I am wondering if it gets squirrely when you put more force on it than was possible with the old drum setup.

 

The paint job will cost me the actual cost of the paint and clear coat and probably $100 in beer and pizza, but I will have to strip it and prep it myself.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the FAB9 that comes with the TCP rear suspension? The advice to swap out to a 9" rear end I think is a very good one after doing some research on the 8" that is currently on the car.

I am thinking that it might be a good idea to kill two birds and all that rot.

 

-Static

[Static_LV 10]

I will be doing about 95% of the work on this myself and I am fairly accomplished at body work, mechanical work, electical, and tuning. Things I will have to farm out will be things like frame straightening if needed and if I decide to build that 351, I will get a machine shop involved before I get started.

 

Robbie, what Baer's do you have on that thing and what is your take on the overall stopping? Also, do you have any suspension geometry issues under heavy braking. It looks like you have the factory supension in there and I am wondering if it gets squirrely when you put more force on it than was possible with the old drum setup.

 

The paint job will cost me the actual cost of the paint and clear coat and probably $100 in beer and pizza, but I will have to strip it and prep it myself.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the FAB9 that comes with the TCP rear suspension? The advice to swap out to a 9" rear end I think is a very good one after doing some research on the 8" that is currently on the car.

I am thinking that it might be a good idea to kill two birds and all that rot.

 

-Static

[Static_LV 10]

After doing some VIN research, I found out some interesting things.

 

First off, the car started off as a 250 I-6 which explains some of the more interesting issues that have manifested in the drive line.

 

Next, I have been able to track down that this car has only lived in San Jose, Orange County, and Las Vegas. Rust and rot of any sort are very very minimal on this car. Additionally, it does not appear to have ever been in a wreck. I have been crawling around under it all morning and have not been able to find any evidence of frame damage or body damage at all except for superficial scrapes bumps and bruises.

 

The next question is do these cars historically have any problems with frame "tweaking" from normal operation? I know that certain longer cars like the GTO had issues with frame alignment no matter what and I want to make sure that this is not an issue with this particular model car.

 

Were there any frame differences between the I-6 and V-8 models that I need to know about? If there are and the V-8 Frame was more robust it would be good to know about it now rather than after putting 500 hp in it and twisting into a pretzel :)

(obviously I know that subframe connectors and a lot of stiffening will be needed to push 500 hp )

 

I also have a question about gas tanks. The one that is in there appears to work just fine, but has anyone migrated to an aftermarket fuel tank and if so which one? I am curious from a fit and exhaust routing standpoint. I am more and more convinced that I am going to put a TCP rear suspension and FAB9 rear end in this thing and it looks like the exhaust routing gets a little tricky with that setup unless you can move the fuel tank a bit or replace it with one with slightly different dimensions. Any thoughts?

 

-Static

[Static_LV 10]

After doing some VIN research, I found out some interesting things.

 

First off, the car started off as a 250 I-6 which explains some of the more interesting issues that have manifested in the drive line.

 

Next, I have been able to track down that this car has only lived in San Jose, Orange County, and Las Vegas. Rust and rot of any sort are very very minimal on this car. Additionally, it does not appear to have ever been in a wreck. I have been crawling around under it all morning and have not been able to find any evidence of frame damage or body damage at all except for superficial scrapes bumps and bruises.

 

The next question is do these cars historically have any problems with frame "tweaking" from normal operation? I know that certain longer cars like the GTO had issues with frame alignment no matter what and I want to make sure that this is not an issue with this particular model car.

 

Were there any frame differences between the I-6 and V-8 models that I need to know about? If there are and the V-8 Frame was more robust it would be good to know about it now rather than after putting 500 hp in it and twisting into a pretzel :)

(obviously I know that subframe connectors and a lot of stiffening will be needed to push 500 hp )

 

I also have a question about gas tanks. The one that is in there appears to work just fine, but has anyone migrated to an aftermarket fuel tank and if so which one? I am curious from a fit and exhaust routing standpoint. I am more and more convinced that I am going to put a TCP rear suspension and FAB9 rear end in this thing and it looks like the exhaust routing gets a little tricky with that setup unless you can move the fuel tank a bit or replace it with one with slightly different dimensions. Any thoughts?

 

-Static

[R4K 10]

As for the fuel tank, I saw an article on Mustang Monthly where they replaced the 20 gallon tank in a '69 with an aftermarket 22 gallon from a '70, which seems like a decent idea. Mine was far from running lean and mean, but even if it were, I'm sure a couple more gallons would be nice (seemed like I was ALWAYS at the gas station, lol).

[R4K 10]

As for the fuel tank, I saw an article on Mustang Monthly where they replaced the 20 gallon tank in a '69 with an aftermarket 22 gallon from a '70, which seems like a decent idea. Mine was far from running lean and mean, but even if it were, I'm sure a couple more gallons would be nice (seemed like I was ALWAYS at the gas station, lol).

[bnickel 10,004]

there are no differences in the unibody structure of v8 and I6 cars until you get into the 390 and larger engines and they got more reinforcement in the shock towers. the link i gave you to pro-motorsports (Dr Gas) has a shock tower reinforcement kit that is very similar to the big block style reinforcement but actually has a few more pieces. also order yourself a copy of the Boss 302 chassis and handling guide from one of the mustang parts suppliers, it gives you some other reinfocemnent guidelines you can use as well.

 

as far as the car needing any sub-frame tweaking, the shock towers do tend to sag a little with age and may need to be spread apart with a port-o-power or like device in severe cases. also, the shock towers are prone to cracking so you also need to inspect for that as well. if your towers are cracked you can repair them with the pro-motorsports kit i mentioned already or you can replace them with new ones. in any case if you are going to do any serious corner carving you need to reinforce the towers.

 

there are not many options for gas tanks other than to swap in a fuel cell. fuel safe makse a drop in cell but it has the same dimensions as the stock tank. with the TCP pushrod coilover/shock rear suspension you either have to use side exit exhaust or dump the exhaust in fron the of the rearend. personally, i think there are better options than that system. keep an eye on that evolution motorsports link i gave you as they are working on a 3 link rear setup, it should be available in the next few months, it was supposed to have been out already but it has been delayed so they can make sure they get all the geometry issues worked out.

[bnickel 10,004]

there are no differences in the unibody structure of v8 and I6 cars until you get into the 390 and larger engines and they got more reinforcement in the shock towers. the link i gave you to pro-motorsports (Dr Gas) has a shock tower reinforcement kit that is very similar to the big block style reinforcement but actually has a few more pieces. also order yourself a copy of the Boss 302 chassis and handling guide from one of the mustang parts suppliers, it gives you some other reinfocemnent guidelines you can use as well.

 

as far as the car needing any sub-frame tweaking, the shock towers do tend to sag a little with age and may need to be spread apart with a port-o-power or like device in severe cases. also, the shock towers are prone to cracking so you also need to inspect for that as well. if your towers are cracked you can repair them with the pro-motorsports kit i mentioned already or you can replace them with new ones. in any case if you are going to do any serious corner carving you need to reinforce the towers.

 

there are not many options for gas tanks other than to swap in a fuel cell. fuel safe makse a drop in cell but it has the same dimensions as the stock tank. with the TCP pushrod coilover/shock rear suspension you either have to use side exit exhaust or dump the exhaust in fron the of the rearend. personally, i think there are better options than that system. keep an eye on that evolution motorsports link i gave you as they are working on a 3 link rear setup, it should be available in the next few months, it was supposed to have been out already but it has been delayed so they can make sure they get all the geometry issues worked out.

[bnickel 10,004]

As for the fuel tank, I saw an article on Mustang Monthly where they replaced the 20 gallon tank in a '69 with an aftermarket 22 gallon from a '70, which seems like a decent idea. Mine was far from running lean and mean, but even if it were, I'm sure a couple more gallons would be nice (seemed like I was ALWAYS at the gas station, lol).

 

 

i have the 22 gallon 70 model tank in my car, the dimensions are exactly teh same as the 69 tank except that it's a little bit taller in the trunk area.