MN69Grande

Ok so I've lurked for a while on this site and thought I'd jump in finally.
 
So here is a brief story about about my car. I bought it at 16 (a couple decades ago) from my grandmother. Basic stats are
-Grande - New Lime/Black Top
-Dark Ivy Gold Interior
-302 2bbl/C4
-2.79 Conventional Rear Axle (though I suspect this was changed at some point to something in the high 3s but still not locking)
It was her daily driver. I drove it for a year or so and then I basically killed it in shop class. Had I been my own dad back then I would never had let my kid sign up to rebuild his Mustang Engine in shop class. Just saying.
 
Basic errors - too big of a Cam Shaft, missed an important frost plug that closes an oil galley, dented the door pushing it into a post, scratched the hell out of it when an unsecured hood slipped off the hinges, just to name a few.
 
So I drove it for a couple years, or tried to occasionally, and then parked it. I accumulated a part here or there for about 15 years then decided it was time to get her going again. So I pulled the motor again 3 years ago. Here is where I am at now.
-had the heads worked a bit (all the rocker studs had been pushed out due to the oversized cam) to change over to threaded rocker arm studs, also hardened seats were put in back in the 90s so no worries there
-Swapped the cam with a Competition roller cam
-Changed over to Competition roller rockers
-Moved to a Holley 4bbl 4160
-Replaced the exhaust manifolds with shorties
-Upgraded to duel flow master exhaust
-Changed out the front drums to 4 caliper discs
-GT'd up the suspension
-Rebuilt the front end
-Beefed up the suspension
-Coil over shocks in the rear
-Rebuilt the steering
-Rebuilt the Transmission
-Custom Torque converter
-Hotter Distribution (no more points for us)
-Patch some minor rust holes
-2 new Doors
-16 inch Vintage Wheel Works Rims
-And as of last week Primer
 
Also after media blasting we found 1 fender was a doner and the quarters must have been replaced in the 80s but they did so well we don't have to mess with it. The dented door was just easier/cheaper to replace, while the remaining door was patched to often to bother keeping it.
 
The goal is to be on the road in the next couple of months. I know this is a pretty light build compared to many on here but it's mine and I wanted to share. The new scheme is going to be Black Jade, with a white top, and a double white pin stripe (similar to the black but without the reflective center and painted not vinyl). The interior is going to be Dark Ivy Gold two toned with White Inserts - I'm not sure how this will look but I'm crossing my fingers. Later I'm going to switch out to HIDs head lamps and LED tail lamps.
 
My Paint Guy says it's bad news to have a car without a name. Since this car spent so long in the Blue Ridge Mountains I figured Virginia was fitting. I'll start with the before photos and add some more later in the week.

When I had to warranty my engine and stepped up to a stroker it was apparent I needed to upgrade my exhaust to 2.5 inch.  So I now have 2 low mileage used 2 inch Flowmaster 50 series mufflers.  If anyone wants them I'll sell them both for $120 plus shipping.  New there $110 each.  Here is the Summit link to them new.  These have just shy of 2000 miles on them.  Seemed like a waste to get rid of them.  The H-Pipe and other bits are gone unfortunately.
 
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-942051/overview/

Not able to leave well enough alone I wasn't liking the cooling in the car with the new motor.  It was running 188 - 195 regardless of 160 or 180 T-Stat.  So I had a smaller water pump pulley on the car and read a few people had issues with this moving the water too fast through the system.  So I switched to an Under-drive Pulley.  Yeap I skipped trying to find a stock diameter pulley because the bolt pattern being the updated bolt pattern and the pulley being 3 groove.
 
Well this had the opposite effect.  I'm now running 193 - 200+.  The radiator is the 24 inch and brand new (copper 3 core).  These temps aren't horrible but in stop and go traffic the temps keep rising, I've seen 205 but haven't pushed my luck.
 
So I figured why not do an electric fan.  I picked up a contour fan assembly from a junk yard for $20.  It's amazing how well it fits.
I also bought some angled aluminum for $3, new connectors off the internet for $18, a can of black high temp paint for $5, some 5/16 fuel line for $3, and some nuts and bolts for $5.  
 
Next I took a rotary tool and ground off all the original mounting tabs.  I've seen them used, but just wanted to try something different.  I also cut the angled aluminum into 2 pieces the length of the radiator.  I then drilled holes in the shroud and aluminum to mount the bracket,  Next I cut the fuel line down the middle and used it on the edges of the fan shroud to create a softer edge against the radiator.  I also painted the aluminum black.
 
Now I'm just waiting on the Fan Controller from DCC.  I got the email that it ships tomorrow so hopefully the wife will let me alone this weekend to work on the car.
 
I'm also going to put in a 3G alternator using the PA Performance conversion kit.

Good thing my wife isn't a member on this blog.  But I think today had to be just about the perfect afternoon.  Shortly afternoon I hopped in the stang and just drove in the country and trough a couple small towns for about an hour and a half.  Then I pulled into the driveway and gave her a nice bath head to toe.  Did get into detailing, but there was nothing pressing to fix.  Nothing unexpected or unwanted happened during the drive and the car performed decently.  Not that I wouldn't have wanted the wife along but sometimes is nice to be alone on the drive.  I didn't even bother turning the radio on, just listened to the sound of the exhaust.
 
Anyone else get out and enjoy the afternoon?

So I'm running a 347 10.2 compression, GT-40x heads, with a Holley 4150 650 cfm Vacuum sec.  I was reading a lot of tuning guides on the wild ole interwebs and they said it was good idea to use a fuel pressure regulator to keep the pressure around 6 lbs.  I've got a Holley Mech pump that does 6.5 - 8.  I seems pretty constant at 7 or above. Holley says the needles in a 4150 will handle up to 9 lbs I think - but then in some of their own videos they say try to stay around 6 lbs.  So I guess my question is to all the tuning wizards out there.  Is it worth running a regulator?  
 
The car had been running rich or lean for a while depending on what jets I was using up front.  I was using the old plug reading method but It seemed I just couldn't get it right.  So I put in an Wide band in 2 weeks ago and found I was running super rich at idle.  So I reset the timing a couple degrees (more advanced now at 15 vs 12), increased the Idle 150 RMP From 800/400 park/drive to 950/550, adjusted the float level 1 turn, and turned the idle screws in one turn each.
 
Now the readings are where I want them at idle.  Just slightly rich like 14-14.5.  I still have to go for some test drives to see if I need to re-jet again.  But I do notice the AFR bouncing around a bit and was wondering if this might be do to the fuel pressure moving up or down, or if that was just the way carbs generally run.  At steady RPMs the bounce is .4 I guess, but as I go into or off the throttle it will jump up or down 1.5 points on the gauge.
 
Oh and I guess and semi-related question.  I originally used a vacuum gauge to set the idle-mixture screw, but then changed it based on the AFR.  Do you think changing from Max Vacuum as the tuning guides say to use to get a better AFR will cause issues?

So I'm running a 347 10.2 compression, GT-40x heads, with a Holley 4150 650 cfm Vacuum sec.  I was reading a lot of tuning guides on the wild ole interwebs and they said it was good idea to use a fuel pressure regulator to keep the pressure around 6 lbs.  I've got a Holley Mech pump that does 6.5 - 8.  I seems pretty constant at 7 or above. Holley says the needles in a 4150 will handle up to 9 lbs I think - but then in some of their own videos they say try to stay around 6 lbs.  So I guess my question is to all the tuning wizards out there.  Is it worth running a regulator?  
 
The car had been running rich or lean for a while depending on what jets I was using up front.  I was using the old plug reading method but It seemed I just couldn't get it right.  So I put in an Wide band in 2 weeks ago and found I was running super rich at idle.  So I reset the timing a couple degrees (more advanced now at 15 vs 12), increased the Idle 150 RMP From 800/400 park/drive to 950/550, adjusted the float level 1 turn, and turned the idle screws in one turn each.
 
Now the readings are where I want them at idle.  Just slightly rich like 14-14.5.  I still have to go for some test drives to see if I need to re-jet again.  But I do notice the AFR bouncing around a bit and was wondering if this might be do to the fuel pressure moving up or down, or if that was just the way carbs generally run.  At steady RPMs the bounce is .4 I guess, but as I go into or off the throttle it will jump up or down 1.5 points on the gauge.
 
Oh and I guess and semi-related question.  I originally used a vacuum gauge to set the idle-mixture screw, but then changed it based on the AFR.  Do you think changing from Max Vacuum as the tuning guides say to use to get a better AFR will cause issues?

Good thing my wife isn't a member on this blog.  But I think today had to be just about the perfect afternoon.  Shortly afternoon I hopped in the stang and just drove in the country and trough a couple small towns for about an hour and a half.  Then I pulled into the driveway and gave her a nice bath head to toe.  Did get into detailing, but there was nothing pressing to fix.  Nothing unexpected or unwanted happened during the drive and the car performed decently.  Not that I wouldn't have wanted the wife along but sometimes is nice to be alone on the drive.  I didn't even bother turning the radio on, just listened to the sound of the exhaust.
 
Anyone else get out and enjoy the afternoon?

Good thing my wife isn't a member on this blog.  But I think today had to be just about the perfect afternoon.  Shortly afternoon I hopped in the stang and just drove in the country and trough a couple small towns for about an hour and a half.  Then I pulled into the driveway and gave her a nice bath head to toe.  Did get into detailing, but there was nothing pressing to fix.  Nothing unexpected or unwanted happened during the drive and the car performed decently.  Not that I wouldn't have wanted the wife along but sometimes is nice to be alone on the drive.  I didn't even bother turning the radio on, just listened to the sound of the exhaust.
 
Anyone else get out and enjoy the afternoon?

I did a search and didn't really see any direct posts about doing a 3G alt conversion.  I think I want to go with an electric cooling fan so I figured this project would be needed first.  I've ordered a PA Performance kit that replaces the external regulator and keeps your Ampmeter from burning out.  Tomorrow I'm going to the year to hunt for rabbits... I mean a 130amp Taurus or Windstar alternator (and a Contour dual fan).
 
My question for all you knowledgeable and experience folks.  Is on the charging wire.  I see a large variety of options out there.  I was thinking of getting the Summit Racing 6 gauge line for $24.  However it doesn't have a fuse.  Is a fuse between the alternator and battery really necessary?  If I get a 130amp Alt won't I need like a 150amp fuse?
 
Any other advice on this mod would also be appreciated.  I read on another forum some people have to grind the case a little due to pulley clearance issues, anyone run into this?
 
Thanks as always for the help/advice.

I did a search and didn't really see any direct posts about doing a 3G alt conversion.  I think I want to go with an electric cooling fan so I figured this project would be needed first.  I've ordered a PA Performance kit that replaces the external regulator and keeps your Ampmeter from burning out.  Tomorrow I'm going to the year to hunt for rabbits... I mean a 130amp Taurus or Windstar alternator (and a Contour dual fan).
 
My question for all you knowledgeable and experience folks.  Is on the charging wire.  I see a large variety of options out there.  I was thinking of getting the Summit Racing 6 gauge line for $24.  However it doesn't have a fuse.  Is a fuse between the alternator and battery really necessary?  If I get a 130amp Alt won't I need like a 150amp fuse?
 
Any other advice on this mod would also be appreciated.  I read on another forum some people have to grind the case a little due to pulley clearance issues, anyone run into this?
 
Thanks as always for the help/advice.

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

Ok I'm really just writing this post to commiserate.  I had my wife take her Daily into a shop we've used for years to get estimates on the 100,000 and 120,000 service for our Honda.  I'll admit we change the oil on a regular basis but are mostly late on the rest of the scheduled maintenance.  But I fear the timing belt going out and killing the motor (nice little 3.0 V6). 
 
So they said we should do the water pump at the same time as the timing belt.  Ok no biggie.  The rate was what I expected.
 
But then they got to the Brakes, Plugs, and S-Belt.
Rear Pads and Rotors more then $400
Spark Plugs $350
S-Belt $120
 
So about $900 for basic maintenance stuff.  As much as the Timing Belt. 
 
I did what I think most of you guys would do and went to NAPA.  Total parts in hand About $170.
The breaks took me 2 hours because I didn't know how to use a certain tool.  I expect a real mechanic could do it in 1.
I'll do the other 2 jobs this weekend but expect to spend maybe an hour to complete them.
 
Can someone explain to me what I would have gotten for another $700 at the shop?  Even if I double the cost of the parts that's more than $500 in labor for what should be 3 hours of work.
 
END RANT

Ok I'm really just writing this post to commiserate.  I had my wife take her Daily into a shop we've used for years to get estimates on the 100,000 and 120,000 service for our Honda.  I'll admit we change the oil on a regular basis but are mostly late on the rest of the scheduled maintenance.  But I fear the timing belt going out and killing the motor (nice little 3.0 V6). 
 
So they said we should do the water pump at the same time as the timing belt.  Ok no biggie.  The rate was what I expected.
 
But then they got to the Brakes, Plugs, and S-Belt.
Rear Pads and Rotors more then $400
Spark Plugs $350
S-Belt $120
 
So about $900 for basic maintenance stuff.  As much as the Timing Belt. 
 
I did what I think most of you guys would do and went to NAPA.  Total parts in hand About $170.
The breaks took me 2 hours because I didn't know how to use a certain tool.  I expect a real mechanic could do it in 1.
I'll do the other 2 jobs this weekend but expect to spend maybe an hour to complete them.
 
Can someone explain to me what I would have gotten for another $700 at the shop?  Even if I double the cost of the parts that's more than $500 in labor for what should be 3 hours of work.
 
END RANT

Ok I'm really just writing this post to commiserate.  I had my wife take her Daily into a shop we've used for years to get estimates on the 100,000 and 120,000 service for our Honda.  I'll admit we change the oil on a regular basis but are mostly late on the rest of the scheduled maintenance.  But I fear the timing belt going out and killing the motor (nice little 3.0 V6). 
 
So they said we should do the water pump at the same time as the timing belt.  Ok no biggie.  The rate was what I expected.
 
But then they got to the Brakes, Plugs, and S-Belt.
Rear Pads and Rotors more then $400
Spark Plugs $350
S-Belt $120
 
So about $900 for basic maintenance stuff.  As much as the Timing Belt. 
 
I did what I think most of you guys would do and went to NAPA.  Total parts in hand About $170.
The breaks took me 2 hours because I didn't know how to use a certain tool.  I expect a real mechanic could do it in 1.
I'll do the other 2 jobs this weekend but expect to spend maybe an hour to complete them.
 
Can someone explain to me what I would have gotten for another $700 at the shop?  Even if I double the cost of the parts that's more than $500 in labor for what should be 3 hours of work.
 
END RANT

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.
 
 
 
 

I thought this was a fun build.  I like the paint but think I'd personally swap the wheels out.  The one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is the math.  They said they spent 40k on the car and parts (seems low) and 310 hours on the build.  It sold for 56.5k.  Now if you were paying straight rates at shop that is at least 20k in man hours probably closer to 25k.  Even if you own the business and pay 1/2 that, it doesn't seem like a lot of profit.  But most the time was volunteer time I think.  Not that I'm knocking them building the car I just always have a laugh at the prices and profits they show on reality shows.